Topping up with EBM at/after bedtime in the (vain?) hope of more sleep. How would be best to do it?

[MadameMoe]

DS is 7 months and EBF (well, we're BLWing too) he's a happy little chap and he's growing really well.

On Friday (his one day at nursery) he didn't drink one of the bottles of EBM I sent with him, it had been defrosted overnight and needed using up ASAP. So, after his bedtime BF I gave him the bottle and to my great surprise he finished it (125mls) and then slept from 7pm to 5am without waking

I've never been that bothered about his not sleeping through, DD has only just started to and she's 2.2, so, it certainly wasn't a shock to me at all that he hadn't started yet. But, if a wee bit of EBM could reduce his night waking it would obviously be fab!

Usually he has a BF before bed at 7, feeds again at 11ish, 3ish and then cluster feeds between 5 and 6:30. I feed in bed so although it does disturb my night it's generally not too dramatic.

I though that if I gave the EBM later he might sleep right through. So, yesterday evening I gave him a bottle of EBM after his 11 o clock feed (took 60mls) but he followed his usual pattern of waking throughout the rest of the night.

He usually feeds to sleep day and night (I know) but the bottle after the feed on the last two evenings put a bit of a spanner in the works of getting him to sleep...

This evening I gave him EBM at bedtime again, this time before he BF. He finished the bottle (125mls) but spent very little time on the breast and didn't fall asleep. I put him, wide awake and gurgling, in his cot where he seems to have fallen happily asleep

Anyway, after I'd but DS in bed I expressed 110mls so he's probably only had a tiny bit more milk than he would usually take from the breast. Should I maybe try giving the new EBM at his 11 o clock feed?

WWYD? EBM at bedtime or at 11ish? Before or after BF? Maybe I should just totally skip one of the BFs and just give him a massive bottle of EBM to see how much he'll take? Or, should I just give up and put Friday nights extra sleep down to a fluke?

As I said, I don't mind him not sleeping through, I'd never expected him too. This is more of an interesting experiment really

Both my LO's never slept through properly until 9 months (subject to teething) and both needed an 11pm feed to get them through to 6-6.30am until about 11 months old. If that makes sense.

I always found expressed breast milk at the 11pm feed only, nice big bottle definitely helped with my first one. As it went down fast and they dream fed and didn't wake as I did it. But some other MN may have a trick for you or two...

When trying to cut out the middle of the night feed, I always tried teething gel first and left room to see if they would settle. Often that worked for me and they went back to sleep. But both my LO's teethed early...

I forgot to say that I found that they're more likely to take a bottle when half asleep than awake if not a fan of the bottle over mummy.

With my son it took me 6 months to find a bottle he'd take to, instead of just 100% me. But when I finally found one he'd take, at night, it was easier to persuade him when half asleep to drink one

Thanks teaandcake Sleeping through at nine months sounds good to me, much better than at 2 anyway.

I think your probably right about adding to the 11 o clock feed rather than the bedtime feed. He usually wakes at 11, but there's no reason why I couldn't turn it into a dream feed at 10:30 ish.

DS was a nightmare to get to take a bottle too. He refused to even tolerate a teat in his mouth. I had managed to get him to drink from a cup ready to start nursery at 6 months and on his first day they tried him with a bottle and it went perfectly

Mmmm. Anyone have more advice?

Yesterday evening I tried with EBM again at the 11ish feed. First I gave the breast and then tried the bottle, DS took about 30mls and wasn't interested in having any more.

Am I just wasting my time? He seems to be getting all he wants / can take at the breast. Maybe Fridays events had more to do with being exhausted after the nursery and being thrilled to have his breast back at the end of a long day?

A handy side effect of my experimentation is that DS suddenly seems happy to fall asleep on his own in his cot (without crying) . He did it at bedtime last night, then again after just 1 feed at 5am (usually co-sleeps / cluster feeds for about 1 1/2 hours). Just now he was also half awake after his feed and again fell happily asleep in his cot...

He sounds like he's getting plenty from you then my lovely! He sounds perfectly normal for a 7 month old :-D

Hope someone else has some good advice for you x

Yeah, I'm pretty sure he is getting plenty from me. TBH I was hoping to trick him into having even more. I recently had to express 3 liters of EBM on top of full time feeding because I was going away without DS for a few days. Obviously it boosted my supply somewhat and I think I might still have more milk than I did before hand.

I think Friday gave me false hope! But, as you say, he is a totally normal 7 month old.

My ds is 9mths and I've found that although when he was younger (c3mths-6mths) a feed (just bf no ebm) about 11ish worked well and he slept until 7/8am (I was lucky I know!) I've found that now it doesn't work so well and if he wakes up to feed c11/12 then he is more likely to wake up 3am/5am etc - as if once he's woken up once then he sort of expects to feed every 2 hours after that! I try and ensure that he has a very good feed when he goes to bed (usually about 9pm, any earlier hasn't worked for us) and the last week he has slept through til 5.30/6am without needing a feed. I also found that by about 7mths if he woke up c11/12ish if I left him and didn't go to him he would settle himself and wouldn't need feeding whereas if I went to him then he would smell the milk and want it! (Obv if he doesn't settle within a few mins or starts crying as opposed to just fussing I do go to him and feed him)

So I think what I'm suggesting is you could try giving the ebm at his bedtime as well as bf or just bf him for as long as possible to he gets lots then. Also perhaps try not going to him straightaway if he wakes in the late evening and see if he will settle.

hth

p.s v envious at you being able to express 3litres - I'm lucky to get 30ml at a time - it takes a long time for me to do enough for a feed!

Thanks cassell! I think it might be best to just drop the whole EBM thing. Oh well.

I can assure you that it wasn't at all easy to express so much (in 8 days ). I was expressing 8 - 10 times a day as well as feeding, in the beginning I was also getting about 30 mls after a feed. It was bloody hard work and TBH I hated it

FWIW, this is what I did:

• gave my DS EBM at his 6.30pmish feed from about 4 weeks onwards.

• I would give him about 2 oz first then he would have both sides. I found it worked much better if he had the EBM first.

• DS would wake up or I would give him a dream feed around 10.30pm

• after lots of experimenting, NUK bottles seem to be the best for us (DS rejected many others...)

• I expressed first thing in the morning before he had his morning feed. A bit of a faff but I got everything ready the night before so I didn't get out of bed and then DH would bring DS to me. I found a HUGE difference between expressing in the morning and expressing at night. Much more milk first thing in the morning!

• for me at least, it didn't work expressing AFTER a feed; your baby is much better at getting milk out of you than a pump, so imo, express first...

I stopped topping up with EBM once he was on to three meals a day and three breast feeds (started cutting down the 10.30pmish feed at about 7 months)

DS is now nearly one and bfeeding 1xday (I am back at work).

Good luck - am sure you will work out what is best for you and DS.