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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Original poster

baby's tongue snipped to help mum bf

52 replies

tarumpybum · 05/01/2010 22:47

shown here

Thoughts?

OP posts:
thisisyesterday · 05/01/2010 23:15

i think it is mainly for the mother's benefit though.
the baby will feed regardless of whether or not the mother is in pain.

but really, feeding a TT baby is so, so, so unbearably painful. what's so wrong with stopping that?

plus, we all know that breastmilk is what babies ought to be drinking, so by not snipping tongue ties we would be preventing many babies from being breastfed

WingedVictory · 05/01/2010 23:15

Sorry, CrosswordGeek, but "If it is because the Mother is finding it painful in the first few weeks, I'd see it as totally selfish and unnecessary." is very harsh.

Why add extra pain, infections, lack of sleep (through expressing and bottle feeding, or through going to formula and having to wash and sterilise endless bottles) to a new mother's life, when it's not necessary.

For the record, I breastfed, and my DC did not have a tongue tie. However, I have a friend whose DC was tongue-tied, and - although I, frankly, thought she was crazy to carry on trying so long - I was so sorry for her pain and repeated infections. Infections which lingered, of course, even beyond the move the bottles.

Please let's be humane to mothers here, as well!

GrumpyWhenWoken · 05/01/2010 23:17

my friend noticed that my DS2 was tongue tied when he was about 8 months old, I hadn't noticed. He was BF and actually found bottles hard to suck from.

So when I took him to the doctors, I was told that they don't snip it these days until it's proven that they have a speach problem. So having researched it, I decided that it would be harder for him to learn how to use his tongue to talk all over again, and had it done privately when he was 1.

SleighGirl · 05/01/2010 23:21

dd couldn't bottle feed properly either - it just all squirted out the sides!!! I used to express to give myself I break from the torture of feeding her pre it being snipped. Afterwards her tongue hung out of her mouth most of the time, she seemed to have to learn what to do with it whereas normally they would have practiced that sort of movement in the womb perhaps?

CrosswordGeek · 05/01/2010 23:31

Think people have totally gotten the wrong end of the stick here. For tongue tied babies it's obviously a good idea. But if baby is not tongue tied and it is done in those first few weeks because breastfeeding hurts (which to my knowledge it does for everyone, at least a bit), then I don't get it.

I also think circumcision is completely wrong and unnecessary unless there's a medical reason for it.

Anyway, not calling anyone ignorant/selfish/cunt, and didn't mean to come across sounding harsh. Think I was a bit abrupt with my post and now sound like a twatsicle.

BertieBotts · 05/01/2010 23:33

There would be something to snip if the baby wasn't tongue tied, everyone has a frenulum, feel under your tongue - I snapped mine when I was 18 which was a bit painful for about 24 hours but not bad. I would imagine compared to the difficulties with feeding the procedure would be very minor.

I think tongue tie should be checked for and treated at birth, but not just treating all babies regardless as it seems a bit intrusive and stressful for the baby if it isn't required.

thisisyesterday · 05/01/2010 23:42

but i thought in people without a tongue tie that frenulum ran so close along the tongue and bottom of the mouth that it wouldn't really be snippable?

i'd feel my own but i'm tongue tied so wouldn't help! lol

thisisyesterday · 05/01/2010 23:43

i may have totally made that up in my head though!

Mamazon · 05/01/2010 23:45

if the tongue tie was causing difficulty BF then the chances are it'd make FF harder too surely?
so its less about helping him bf and more a\bout just helping him feed altogether?

or is that totally wrong?

thisisyesterday · 05/01/2010 23:46

it doesn't always cause problems with bottle feeding, but it can do, as with sleighgirl's dd

my ds1 was fine with a bottle. in fact, if held in place he was fine with breastfeeding too lol. it was me that had the problem

ZephirineDrouhin · 05/01/2010 23:47

Breastfeeding is not painful for everyone, crosswordgeek. But it is cripplingly painful for some. For me (and from what I've read on here my experience is not at all unusual) it felt exactly as though my baby had a mouthful of broken glass for most feeds during the first 10 weeks or so.

So it's pretty horrible to see that pain dismissed as something that would be "totally selfish and unnecessary" to avoid.

Mamazon I don't think bottle feeding requires the baby to do quite so much with its tongue so it's not usually an issue.

thisisyesterday · 05/01/2010 23:50

i think one of the main problems a bf tongue tied baby has is staying latched on. you know how normally they create a really strong suction?
ds1 never did that. he latched on ok, but because he had so little movement in his tongue, when he started to feed he lost that suction and so repeatedly "fell off"

with a bottle he didn't really need the suction. the bottle was held in his mouth, all he had to do was suck.

incidentally he never had his snipped as i'd already given up BF. and he has had no speech problems at all

CornishKK · 05/01/2010 23:50

Nope, tongue tie can prevent breast feeding as the baby needs to do more work with the tongue. FF is usually OK.

My DS had his tongue tie snipped at 7 days, he couldn't BF at all and I was told the op was painless and would allow him to BF and prevent future speech problems. I went ahead with the tongue tie "snip" it was horrific, left DS with an open wound under his tongue the size of a 20p - which is huge to a tiny baby. And he couldn't BF afterwards and actually made it harder for me to bottle feed expressed milk. Five months later he's still seeing a cranial osteopath. I wish I had not listened to the experts.

tiktok · 05/01/2010 23:53

NICE recommends, based on evidence, tongue tie snipping when bf is painful or difficult. It can sometimes be difficult for babies to latch comfortably for them (the baby) with TT. It can be very painful for the mother. Perfectly justifiable to snip.

Most TTs prob don't cause problems, though...it's not worth snipping if there are no problems.

TTs have not been routinely snipped in the UK for decades, if ever - the long fingernail for midwives is an urban myth, I think, although maybe there were a few midwives 50 or 60 years ago who did this.

Bf is not painful for everyone - another urban myth

thisisyesterday · 05/01/2010 23:53

cornish, that's awful!

so they must have done it wrong and cut too deep?? have they accepted any liability for it at all?

when ds2 had his done, as I say, he slept through it and there was virtually no blood at all. it's such a tiny bit that needs snipping.
we had ours done by a lovely lady called Claire Maynard down in chichester hospital

GrumpyWhenWoken · 06/01/2010 00:05

Cornish that doesn't sound right at all, ds2 was 1 and had a general, he was eating a sandwich an hour after waking up.

CrosswordGeek · 06/01/2010 00:10

thisisyesterday - this is the problem I had with my DD, and am left with scars on my nipples that my Midwife told me were the worst she'd seen. She would continuously slip off and make a weird clicking sound for .... I don't even know how long. The first week and a half was fine, then this happened, and she didn't stop til she was maybe 5 weeks because my community midwife kept coming out to see me after I'd been discharged.

DD was not tongue tied, as I said it was checked by so many people because of my problems. I wouldn't have had her tongue snipped though, not unless she was suffering. But that's just me, and I wouldn't think any less of someone who would.

SolidGoldBloodyJanuaryUrgh · 06/01/2010 01:11

CWG: this idea that anything that might help a new mother or make her life easier must be 'selfish and unecessary' does a fuck of a lot of damage. Silly smug twats telling women struggling and in agony that they are making a fuss about nothing/not doing it properly when in fact there are sound medical reasons for (for instance) snipping a tied tongue contribute to bad bonding, PND and failure to thrive, because the poor mothers feel so guilty and 'selfish' that they don't seek help.

CrosswordGeek · 06/01/2010 01:15

Have not said any of that, however.

Certainly don't think I'm a "silly smug twat", either. Have said a few times now, that if there is nothing WRONG with the child's frenulum, why should it be cut?

PlonkerTeatowelOnTheirHeads · 06/01/2010 01:25

By CrosswordGeek Tue 05-Jan-10 23:01:18
"If it is done for medical reasons for the BABY's sake, I'm all for it. If it is because the Mother is finding it painful in the first few weeks, I'd see it as totally selfish and unnecessary."

I have to say CrossworkGeek, that you sound like your talking out of your arse to me.
If the mother is finding it painful she is more likely to give up, surely? Therefore the painful breastfeeding does affect the baby because breastfeeding is stopped early or at best is a long drawn out painful process for mum rather than the lovely experience that it can be?

PlonkerTeatowelOnTheirHeads · 06/01/2010 01:29

I probably should add that I bf-ed my tongue-tied 3rd baby for 13weeks before she finally had it snipped.

She was absolutely fine, no problems. She was thriving and putting on weight fine, just feeding 1/1.5 hourly.
I, however, was in agony and very close to giving up.
I guess I'm one of your "selfish" mums eh?

WingedVictory · 06/01/2010 09:15

Hi, Crosswordgeek, thanks for clarifying. Your original post did sound very harsh... No wonder people are still getting cross about it!

MincePAELLA · 06/01/2010 09:32

DD had tongue tie and was not diagnosed until 8 weeks in. She practically shredded my nipples (her tongue did not lift the breast into the soft palate) and my supply was rubbish due to dodgy latch tt caused. She also had terrible weight gain and was always grizzly. I stopped bf by 3 1/2 months and was gutted.

DS2 (nearly 27 weeks) had tt too and again bf caused me so much pain (worse than childbirth which I have done withOUT drugs!) I had it snipped twice and I am glad I did. He hardly cried, no infections and we are still bf (exclusively I might). I never would have been able to do this if his tt was not sorted. I wish I had done this sooner with DD.

DS1 also has tongue tie (now 4 yrs) and had terrible speech problems and is just now starting to string sentences.

IME Don't under estimate the issues tongue tie can bring.

SolidGoldBloodyJanuaryUrgh · 06/01/2010 10:20

CWG I wasn't specifically calling you a silly smug twat - it's a more generalised phenomenon that a lot of people are very keen to label women, especially new mothers 'selfish' if they show any signs of remembering that they are people, or express any distress or concern or anything other than radiant self-abnegating joy.

squashimodo · 06/01/2010 13:39

Tongue tie can also cause badly decaying teeth, due to tongue movement being restricted. It can cause digestive problems, gastric pain, as well as speech problems. It is always worth getting a tt snipped, even if it doesn't cause problems with actual breast feeding.