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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Flying the Breastfeeding Flag

47 replies

RubyBuckleberry · 11/12/2009 14:09

Interesting article here

Is this all true? I'm shocked. I just don't get why formula is even allowed to be sold.

A little speechless RubyBuckleberry.

OP posts:
JustAnotherManicMummy · 12/12/2009 19:24

I thought the OP was a troll because it was such a stupidly insensitive post.

A quick search reveals she probably isn't a troll, just stupid and insensitive.

OP, back in your box please

HumphreyCobbler · 12/12/2009 19:27

I found it difficult to bf ds, and in fact gave him mostly formula. I still don't feel bad when I read threads like these, as I read what they are actually saying rather than imposing my own guilt for my 'failure' on them.

I don't imagine that anyone envisages having to get doctor approval for formula, just that having it on prescription cuts out the necessity for huge profits to be made out of something as vital as infant nutrition. Advertising does persuade many people to ff, that is why they spend millions and millions of pounds doing it.

Women who try really hard to breastfeed and don't manage it didn't turn to formula due to advertising, they turned to it out of desperation. Breastfeeding rates are woeful in this country, so two things need to happen.
1)Women should be given much better help so that is it is POSSIBLE for them to bf then they can
2)More women should be persuaded to give it a go in the first place and properly supported in that.

Removal of the marketing of formula would be a good step imo.

ZippysMum · 12/12/2009 19:29

Well said HC

Scarletti · 12/12/2009 19:50

The ability or inability to breastfeed can be very closley linked to a mother's subsequent self-esteem. The ' failure' to do something apparently so natural can be devastating so a lot of tact should be employed in this area. We should promote a breastfeeding friendly society and educate people not just about ' breast is best' but also that breast can be really hard work at least to start with. IMO it is the feeling that you shoud be able to just stick your baby on and away you go that is a big problem. Instead of judging people on why they are not breast feeding we should make sure that every thing possible is done to support a woman whatever her choice knowing that having a baby can be the most challenging experience one will ever live through. I can honestly say that having a baby and struggling with breast feeding was harder than 6 years of medical school post-graduate exams and the day-to-day life of a doctor.

hanaflower · 12/12/2009 20:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AitchTwoToTangOh · 12/12/2009 20:39

TOTALLY agree with HC. i was a rubbish bfer and my failure in that area hurt for a while (if you don't believe me, search for the original thread on here from 2006 when the article was published. moony at her charming best ).

but we need to be grown up and detached about this, the reason that most of us don't manage to bf is because the system isn't set up for us to. formula milk on repeat script, from one single govt manufacturer, would be bloody brilliant in conjunction with a concerted mammoth push to get women bfing.

btw ruby, piglet has started an infinitely more inflammatory thread about this thread in AIBU. nice.

ilovemydogandmrobama · 12/12/2009 21:07

The web chat with the author of 'Politics of Breastfeeding' was great. Her attitude was along the lines that women shouldn't beat themselves up about it if it doesn't work out.

Absolute pain in the ass having formula on prescription. DS is on a hypoallergenic, molecules split by NASA type and it's such a hassle. Schleping to surgery to get it repeated, schelping to pharmacy who have to order it...

Just have formula in plain, no frills tins on the supermarket shelves. No cute pictures. No cute TV commercials, although quite enjoyed the one where the father promised to do the night feeds

RubyBuckleberry · 12/12/2009 22:01

OMG a troll(WTF is a troll), stupid, insensitive fuck off pedastal confrontational search for my name back in your box - some of you seriously need to put the claws away.

I don't think women / families should have to pay for formula.

I think it is criminal that companies are making billions of dollars out of something that is vital for some and out of situations which could be helped with more support.

More shocking is that they made money out of infants dying from drinking contaminated water in formula milk when they could have breastfed.

I never once said women are second class for formula feeding. I didn't say much actually - I found an interesting article and was shocked. I thought others might be interested. I have also seen the threads where women are desperate to breastfeed and get given crap advice from the very people paid to help them and that makes me sad and angry on their behalf. People aren't prescribed domperidone if they need it FFS!

BTW breastfeeding was a nightmare for a while, I wept frequently and spent many a night wondering if it would ever get better. It was the support from my DH, my mum, my sister and the local babycafe that I got that kept me going, and for this I am grateful. I may yet experience more problems. Who knows? TBH that's not really the point, is it.

OP posts:
addictedtofrazzles · 12/12/2009 22:05

So who pays for the formula if it is on prescription? The over-stretched NHS, funded by tax payers during the worst recession. Great suggestion .

BF if you can/want to. If not FF.

I FF my son after 4 hellish weeks of expressing for each feed (he couldn't latch on). I hope to BF my DC2, but if I can't I will FF and not lose sleep over it. No big deal - the baby will need feeding either way!

StayingSantasGirl · 12/12/2009 23:08

None of my dses thrived on my milk - it seems that I produce only skim, whereas other women make gold top! Ds2 was even admitted to hospital as 'failure to thrive' and only regained his birthweight at 7 weeks old when I started giving him formula.

I can see Ruby's point that, as it was a necessity, perhaps someone in my position shouldn't have to pay for their formula - though happily I was in a position to do so, and mightn't have taken advantage of that opportunity.

But for all formula feeding mothers to have to get prescriptions for formula just isn't practical, imo. What about those surgeries where you can wait a week or more for an appointment? And what about the extra workload for doctors and receptionists processing repeat prescriptions?

I also agree with Scarletti - not managing to breastfeed can be very traumatic, so someone starting a thread like this should be very aware of that fact and should tread very carefully.

Ruby, I'm afraid that your first post did come across as rather judgemental of people who don't breastfeed, for whatever reason. I don't for one moment think that this was your intention, but you perhaps need to acknowledge that you have unwittingly hurt and offended some people.

I had Post Natal Depression after each birth, and attribute that in large part to my failure to breastfeed (though in hindsight it is clear that I already had had depression as a teenager, so the tendency was there and the breastfeeding issue cannot be totally to blame). That failure has haunted me ever since, and is a factor in my ongoing depression.

It's very hard not to take threads like this personally given my history, and I am sure this is the same for other women, hence the plea for a little more tact and diplomacy in this area.

RubyBuckleberry · 13/12/2009 08:17

StayingSantasGirl I don't doubt it is utterly devastating to not be able to feed your DC your breastmilk. It is precisely for this reason that the government in this country should be taking steps to give women better support than they get at the moment.

People have commented on how my 'ire' should be directed more usefully. Consider this, if the amount of vitriol aimed at me was aimed at those in charge, something might change. If the anger women feel about not being able to breastfeed was directed at the right people, not some internet poster, it might help other women breastfeed in the future.

Finally, if you read the article, you will read things like "Within reason, manufacturers can put anything they like into formula. In fact, the recipe for one product canvary from batch to batch, according to the price and availability of ingredients. While we assume that formula is heavily regulated, no transparency is required of manufacturers: they do not, for example, have to log the specific constituents of any batch or brand with any authority." Is this not shocking? And, "In fact, concentrations of phytoestrogens detected in the blood of infants receiving soya formula can be 13,000 to 22,000 times greater than the concentrations of natural oestrogens. Oestrogen in doses above those normally found in the body can cause cancer." Is this not shocking? And "Nearly all women ? around 99 per cent ? can breastfeed successfully and make enough milk for their babies to not simply grow, but to thrive." Is this not reason to give more support? And for the one percent who can't breastfeed for medical reasons, I don't think it is unresonable to suggest formula not be sold by profit making multi-nationals, instead for it to be made available on repeat prescription, with a greater transparency regarding its ingredients. If I ever need to use formula, which is possible - I am only 9 weeks in and anything can happen - I would like to at least see what is in it.

So, if you see in my OP it also says, is this all true? Is it? Can anyone tell me that this article is rubbish? And if not, then yes, I am duly shocked, and won't be apologising for stating this opinion.

OP posts:
christmasgoblin · 13/12/2009 08:27

this article kicked off a massive ruck a few years ago with moondog linked it in with a very erm, opinionated title.

christmasgoblin · 13/12/2009 08:30

"People have commented on how my 'ire' should be directed more usefully. Consider this, if the amount of vitriol aimed at me was aimed at those in charge, something might change. If the anger women feel about not being able to breastfeed was directed at the right people, not some internet poster, it might help other women breastfeed in the future."

Amen to that.

ZippysMum · 13/12/2009 10:30

RB I think you have been very unreasonably treated.

It's really hard to read those facts without being angry, whether you are a bf or ff, and I am totally with you regarding the ire being redirected towards those responsible for the situation outlined in the article you linked to.

pennyrain · 13/12/2009 10:51

I breastfed my daughter for a while, gave it up for practical reasons..she is now a healthy, thriving 7 year old...no emotional damage whatsoever! I have currently chosen to FF my son, attempted to breast feed but he didn't latch on due to a forceps delivery and facial injuries. I had doubts about breast feeding anyway. However my point is that I in no way feel devastated, rejected or guilty for FF my son. He is a healthy, happy child and my husband has bonded beautifully with him, as he does a his share of the feeding. I just don't get all this debate, why is your own personal choice anyone elses concern? why would you feel crap cos someone on a forum champions breastfeeding?? it all amazes me. And as for various comments I have read on this topic about breast feeding being best for society!! I seriously think we have bigger fish to fry on that score!!

Jofins · 13/12/2009 11:11

Ruby, what happened to choice? You need to get out more and see the real world.

Sassyfrassy · 13/12/2009 11:35

Pennyrain, the reason it's best for society is that research clearly shows that breastfeeding has a very real, long term impact on health. Better health means less costs to the taxpayers.

christmasgoblin · 13/12/2009 14:56

Jofins, formula is a choice for a small percentage of women. At the moment 76% of women attempt to breastfeed at least once.

9 out of 10 women who gave up by 6 weeks state that they wanted to breastfeed for longer. The choice was taken from them because of poor breastfeeding support at a critical time.

Choice can only be called a choice when women know the risks associated with formula feeding. There is very little no unbiased information out there telling parents what is in formula and what are the short and long term health risks of formula feeding.

Many parents out there sadly think that formula today is nearly as good as breastmilk, is identical to breast milk and even, that formula is dried human breast milk.

It is never a choice for a baby. Given a choice, babies will choose breast milk.

RubyBuckleberry · 13/12/2009 17:22

Jofins, 'you need to get out more,' is that all you can come up with? Profound. .

Choice. If you want to feed your baby formula, feed your baby formula and be happy. We have the capacity to feed our babies something else when bfing fails. We don't live in medieval times (where I probably wouldn't have even survived the birth - emcs due to brow presentation after 4 days of labour) so we can improvise pretty effectively.

I am simply suggesting other options. Even the WHO says formula is the fourth best option. Like I said, if I ever have to use formula, I would personally want a better quality product than the article suggests it is.

OP posts:
pennyrain · 13/12/2009 17:59

Sassyfrassy...I think that argument is a little bit simplistic, and a bit lame to be honest regardless of "research"..the same research that tells me that everything put in my mouth can damage me. I'm not saying breast milk is'nt beneficial i'm just saying if you feel strongly about breastfeeding...brilliant...do it, for your own reasons...I don't need to hear about it cos frankly I don't care.

BTW this is'nt intended as a personal attack but as a generalised response to what I have read on these forums.

AitchTwoToTangOh · 13/12/2009 20:32

well then don't click on a thread called Flying the BFing Flag, then, pennyrain. cos if you do, you're spoiling for a fight and no better than you ought to be, as my dear grandmother used to say.

Scarletti · 13/12/2009 21:09

I think that many people choose formula either actively or when BF proves more difficult than expected because the apparent health-problems associated with FF are so remote from the baby phase. I know this doesn't stand up scientifically but we can all probably look around and see many adults and children who were FF and who at least outwardly have shown no ill-effects to date. I support BF and have BF my 2 with occassional help from FF.
As a community we should demand the best possible for all children. For those who are BF we should ensure that they can be fed wherever it is required in comfort and ease and free from ' tutting and eye-rolling'from the public. For those who use formula either partially or completely we should ensure that they have the best substitute milk possible which I feel means not making demons of the manufacturers but campaigning for transparency in info and advertising and further research .

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