About to give up - make me feel better (long)

[doughnutty]

Baby is 2+2wks. Have been expressing every 4 hrs since Monday due to cracked nipples and mastitis and feeding this by bottle on demand. But I'm at the end of my rope now.

Put DS back on mastitis boob yesterday after advice from MW & BF clinic (on demand)but he seems to be comfort sucking every hour or so. When he does sleep he won't go into moses basket - wants to be held.

I'm still expressing off the other side every 4 hrs which means I'm getting no sleep. I can't stop crying when I put him on as it's still sore but he's getting so agitated. His hands are always in the way and the more upset he gets I get as bad.

I'm going to try the nipple shields next feed but if that doesn't work he'll have finished what I've expressed by tomorrow.

Someone please tell me I'm not a bad mum for giving in to the formula

goodness lovey, we all hope we'll be perfect mothers but it's not actually possible - you can only do as much as you can do, if you feel you need to give him some formula then do. it'll all be ok in the end. i recommend Dr Jack Neuman for bf advice - but in the meantime find someone to take him for 20mins, have a nice hot bath, a bar of chocolate and a glass of wine. you will both survive this xxxx

sorry it's dr newman! typo x

I formula fed both my boys as did my sister with her little one and my mum with me and my brother and sisters.

I think its a personal choice and as above you can only do as much as you can do.

My friend breast fed to begin with but found introducing the bottle (breast or formula milk), her little one slept longer. I'm assuming this was maybe because baby was drinking a little more?

Ditto the hot bath, chocolate and glass of wine suggestion x

I'm feeling so selfish though. Like my sleep is more important!

OTOH dripping salty tears onto babies face during every feed/cuddle can't be good for him either.

Do I just have to accept I'm going to feel like shit about this? Esp when I get a bit more sleep.

sleep IS important! your health is v important. do not underestimate this - you need to take care of yourself otherwise who's going to take care of babs? mastitis is horrible, so no wonder you are feeling low and finding things difficult. do you have anybody there to take care of you - partner, mum, friend? try to maximise the sleep you are getting by sleeping when the baby sleeps, whenever that might be, you're ill and need extra rest. i wish i could give you some specific advice on getting over your bf difficulties but i didn't have that experience. i recently started to cut down on bf as we'd got to 6 mths but then DD got ill and needed to bf loads and my milk supply went straight back up again when i thought it had nearly dried up - so all is not lost. if you do end up totally on formula so be it, it's not the end of the world is it? x

I sympathise completely. I had a very similar experience with DD. The only other thing I would suggest is that you don't have to give up bf completely - particularly as you're okay expressing you could give formula for some feeds and breast milk for others, ytou just need to be careful to keep your supply up but then your DP/ a friend etc could help out with feeds.

Good luck with whatever you decide

Please don't feel bad. Things will get better soon, before you realise it. Your baby is still very young and it's very early days. You're not a bad mum for giving in to formula, but it doesn't have to be the end of bf.

I had a very tough first couple of weeks, firstly with badly cracked nipples and then with thrush, (I had to bite down on my hand when DD latched on for a week or so until I got treated as it was so painful) but I kept telling myself that things would get better. They have got better and although I can't say I'm a fan of evening cluster feeds.

Do try and get 20 minutes for yourself, relax, calm down, and tell yourself that this stage will be over soon. What advice is available in your area?

hi - you poor thing. That first few weeks are so hard and bloody exhausting. You are not bad. You are not selfish. You care about your baby. You have already kept feeding despite some serious hurdles. Big, BIG hugs. When I was having problems someone said to just take one feed at a time - it feels less overwhelming that way.

You seem to want to continue feeding if you can get this sorted out, so, as the feeds are still hurting please try to get someone to come out and check your latch. Also, has anyone checked your DS for tongue tie?

At about 3 weeks my DS had a monster growth spurt so the frequent feeding might just be a good sign of that. Ref the sleeping, have you tried carrying DS in a sling (or getting your DP to do it) as that might give you a bit of break without trying to persuade DS that he wants to sleep in his basket. Also if you can get someone to help, see if you can get them to show you how to feed lying down. I didn't nail this til much later but it makes a difference to the tiredness thing.

Finally, (apart from the bath, choccy etc) I strongly recommend the BFing helplines. They're great. Not judgey or preachy and they can really talk to you to see if you might need face to face support. Here are the numbers - if you can't get through then get your DP or someone to make the initial call - they might need to get someone to call you back:

National Breastfeeding Helpline 0844 20 909 20
Association of Breastfeeding Mothers helpline 08444 122 949
Breastfeeding Network Supporterline: 0844 412 4664
La Leche League Telephone Helpline: 0845 120 2918
National Childbirth Trust Breastfeeding line: 0300 330 0771

Good luck. And give yourself a break. And a hug.

As my husband has just said babys can pick up on your emotions and i know even now when i've been woken early by my two monsters (2 & 4) i'm not myself and can be more grouchy than usual. I then end up feeling guilty about it later in the day.

Honestly just do what you feel is best for both of you, neither choice is right or wrong x

Right now I'm gonna get cross.

You don't 'give in' to formula. It isn't like chocolate when you are on a diet. It isn't about will power and it isn't about being a good mum or a bad mum.

If you have to give formula it is because you have made a decision based on the information you have available to you.

This information is currently:
Your baby is comfort sucking
You have mastitis
You are obliged to express every 4 hours
You are without sleep
You are miserable
You have cracked nipples
Feeding is sore
Feeding is a battle trying to get the fists out of the way
He won't be put down
Nipple sheilds might work

You believe this. It is true for you. Some of the things are impossible to change. Most of the things should never have happened. Some of the other things are easy to change and some are bearable if YOU change the way you see things.

Another thing: have you tried swaddling him to get his fists out of the way? Sometimes feeding DD is like wrestling with an octopus and a quick swaddle gets those tentacles under control.

My ds was the same. Things that helped- a sling, I could carry him around asleep and still eat etc!

I used to swaddle him so his arms were out the way. He grew out of this- they are learning too!

I got my dh/mum to look after him and just bring him to me for feeds.

Also try winding him before feeding- sometimes they have wind and want to suck.

My MW suggested a dummy and dh taking himout for a walk to stretch out feeds to 2 hrs. Lots of people say no to dummies. I only used it when he had just fed so I wasn't missing cues. Up to you though.

It will get easier. I gave up BF at 5 weeks (for other reasons) I had mastitis in week 1 too. My son is now FF and still used to go 1-2hours sleep and he likes to be held! Sometimes he doesn't sleep more than 30mins! FF won't necessarily make him sleep more

Thanks for all advice. Decision made at 3am this morning. ATM we are finishing off the EBM which is in the fridge then we will go to ff.

Understand that ff might not make him sleep more but I can't do the pain anymore and it's coming back with every feed.

Don't know if having enormous boobs makes a difference as it makes it hard to see if his latch is correct. Only have sensation to guide me and I don't know what it's supposed to feel like.

DH has been great but he needs to sleep too.

Sorry, - never managed to finish off last night:

'Your baby is comfort sucking'

Possibly, but this is the best way to build supply. Your supply is currently very low due to expressing infrequently and bottle feeding, plus your supply is quite far behind what it should be due to a rocky start.

'You have mastitis'

Terrible. It is best to take painkillers and try to feed through this, massaging the sore parts as you feed.

'You are obliged to express every 4 hours'

Actually, this isn't really often enough. You need to express 10 times in 24 hours including at least twice overnight (once during your sleeping night)

'You are without sleep'

This is hard but you need to change the way you look at things. Your goal is to survive, not get 8 hours consecutive sleep. An idea would be to go to bed at 6-7pm and stay there until morning, getting your dp to bring in baby for feeds only.

'You are miserable'

Perfectly understandable. You absolutely should not be in this position. You have been badly let down by people who should know better. I recommend calling one of the BF helplins that are staffed by 'experts'.

'You have cracked nipples'

This makes feeding extremely uncomfortable but lucky can heal quickly BUT, ONLY if you gave a good latch. There is no way your latch is any good. You need to get this looked at by an 'expert'. None of those people you have turned to are experts.

'Feeding is sore'

Not surprising. You've been let down.

'Feeding is a battle trying to get the fists out of the way'

This is a pain but not a big deal. I should imagine that on top of everything else it is though. You can swaddle, or hook your finger of the hand on the same side as the breast, up the sleeve of the top arm to hold it back, and tuck the bottom arm in your armpit.

'He won't be put down'

This is normal, and especially true when your supply isn't meeting his demand. It is the best thing for your supply to stay close.

'Nipple sheilds might work'

No. Nipple sheilds usually result in an end to breastfeeding and should never be used except under the guidence of a BFC.

If you get some real life proper help, and spend the weekend in bed with your baby, you'll feel like a new woman on Monday.

HTH

Sorry, just saw you last post. Don't be making decisions at 3am.

If you are going to give formula from now on then I would urge you to phone a bfc helpline. With the state that your breasts are in currently you could be making things worse by stopping. They will be able to give you advice on how to stop safely.

Oh, no! I have a friend who had recurring mastitis (DD had a tongue tie, fixed some time after birth, but evidently too late to prevent bad habits) and horrible pain while breast feeding, yet kept it up for aaaaages, with her mother staying to help with feeding in the middle of the night while my friend expressed.... It was absolutely insane, and I tried to tell her this, but she didn't seem to be listening, partly, I suspect, because she is a perfectionist, and partly because she was so tired.

However, I'll repeat what I tried to get through to her: your baby needs YOU more than your milk. Pain and lack of sleep will take you away from your DS. You asked whether you were being a bad mother for going to formula? Let me be frank: you would be a bad mother for carrying on like this. You need to feed, stimulate and love your child, and you can't do it like this.

Let me declare my interests, too, lest you think I'm trying to expiate some of my own guilt. I had a very hard start to breastfeeding, but once it clicked, I went on for about 13 months, and found it so much easier than faffing about with bottles would have been. However, I am lazy like that! Meanwhile, I was a purely bottle-fed baby and have an excellent immune system and an M.A. So there.

You can regret having to give up if you like, and that's fine. But please don't be stupid about trying to carry on: that you will regret a lot more.

terribly for you doughnutty to be feeling this way. I agree that you shouldn't be making decisions at 3am. You've had a rocky start, but if you give it just a few more days with some professional help, you may find that bf becomes the easiest thing about having a baby.

Agree he is not comfort sucking - he is trying to up your supply. The easiest way to avoid cracked nipples and mastitis is to let him have unrestricted access to suckling. But in order to let him do this, you have to make sure your latch is right. You need a pro BF counsellor or a very pro-bfing midwife to help you. In the meantime, you should go to bed with your baby, snuggle up close to him with lots of skin to skin contact, and let him suckle as much as you can.

I was in the same position as you at 2 weeks. I felt desperate and dreaded putting him onto feed, but for me, formula feeding simply wasn't an option. I used a nipple shield on one side for about 3-5 feeds before the crack healed enough. And tons of lansinoh. Every time he cried, I let him suckle. I think expressing can be tougher on your nipples - your baby suckling keeps them moist and soft. After a couple of days my supply sorted itself out, my nipples got used to it, and we were fine - and have never looked back.

I hope you find some support and help. Whatever you end up doing, please don't feel bad. Of course a happy mum is the best thing any baby can have. But I really believe it's worth a couple more days of pain if you can go on to enjoy breastfeeding for many months to come.

I can completely empathise with this. My DD found breastfeeding quite difficult at first. My nipples were so badly cracked that my midwife had apparently not seen anything like it. They were often bleeding, and I was also crying my eyes out every feed. THEN after changing positions (to rugby tackle hold) I got mastitis (prescribed anti-Bs which I actually NEVER got around to taking). I started giving her EBM in a bottle, pumping when she was hungry and then immediately giving it to her, but still breastfeeding off the side with mastitis to try and drain it away as pumping did not work.

She very quickly became nipple confused and couldn't stay on my breast for very long at all. I was told that if I wanted to breastfeed, I'd have to stop giving her a bottle or it would make it worse. 9 weeks on, and she hasn't had a bottle since. The few weeks after that were hard and extremely painful, but I knew she was getting enough food. If you want to continue breastfeeding, perserverence is probably the only thing that will get you through. Do you have a friend or family member who has breastfed to support you?

Also, it's been said, but swaddling helped to get DD's fists out of the way. She still tries it now as she's a fist sucker, but as she's bigger it's much easier to just pull them out of the way and put around me. Don't feel like a failure though, whatever you do. Being a good mother consists of a lot more than breastfeeding. You've tried, and if you try further, then fantastic, if you don't, then you're human. I may well have given up if it wasn't for the fact my Mum worked as a breastfeeding counseller and was with me during the hard times.

Started on formula yesterday. Feel guilty but not in pain anymore other than the achyness of mastitis and v full boobies. (Leaking everywhere).
DH was amazing last night and took over at 11pm and let me sleep through till 8am.
Feel more like myself again and not nearly so worried about being a bad mum. Baby will hopefully be more happy if I'm happy too.
Thank you to all who replied for not being judgey. Really appreciate it.

Don't feel guilty. As I said, I breastfed for ages, but I fully understand that it doesn't work out for everyone. Your lovely LO needs you compos mentis, and that is what he will get.... or more compos mentis than with the manic schedule and pain you were describing.

probably you know this but have you tried lansinoh? it really works well and as it is natural your baby won't be harmed sucking on it. lansinoh is a nipple gel/serum which I found invaluable.

i feel for you. its so exhaustig I know. my baby wouldn't go in his basket either and wanted to be held all night.

Don't feel bad about it!

These things happen. Our little one has been on formula from about 2 months onwards and hes bigger and more advanced than other kids his age (could just be great genes.. ahem ahem :-) I was really worried that by giving him formula we'd be affecting his development etc etc but it did nothing of the sort.

Bad mums dont ever ask themselves if they're a bad mum.

Breastfeeding doesn't automatically make you a good mum.

Hi Doughnutty,

Been trying to write something for a couple of days but haven't had hands free long enough - now you've made your decision, which is great!

I was just going to say that i had a very similar experience with my DS, now 8 weeks old and happily FF. I gave myself a really hard time - but eventually realised that if my quality of life improved then so would his, plus i could actually enjoy him properly!. The LO's remember the closeness with you not how they were fed. Being a good mum is knowing when enough is enough and making the decision thats right for you, baby and family together.

One thing - if your LO gets a little bunged up on formula at first, you can put the tinyest bit of golden caster sugar in the feed and also give about 2-3OZ of straight cooled boiled water per day to ease things.

Anyway good luck with everything and take care xx