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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Can you help with stopping birth registrars giving out formula promotions?

93 replies

Lisanova · 29/11/2009 21:06

Parents all over the country currently receive marketing materials which undermine breastfeeding when they register their babies birth. This information comes along with their babies birth certificate, in a folder which contains a range of leaflets - some official government ones, along with a leaflet encouraging parents to join Hipp Organics online group. through this group parents will receive free samples, coupons, expert advice etc. they also receive a leaflet for pregnacare's breastfeeding supplement for mothers.

Some of the parents register their babies with a registrar who visits the hospital, this means that the hospitals rules about marketing materials an compliance with Unicef Baby Friendly Initiative are undermined.

These birth registration folders are provided by Lifecycle Marketing, who also produce Emma's diary.

At the moment there is a break in the supply of the Lifecycle wallets, so now is the time to take action!

There is an alternative folder that registrars can use and this is distributed by civil ceremonies, this can be provided along with a wallets for death certificates.

So.. What Can you do?

Please check if your local Registrar uses a folder to present birth certificates which is produced by " lifecycle Marketing". If they do, Inform them that some of the leaflets contained in this folder undermine the WHO code (and Unicef baby friendly accreditation that the PCT/Hospital may be in the process of obtaining/ have obtained) and to point out that other alternatives are available.

OP posts:
MincePAELLA · 01/12/2009 17:53

I still don't get it....are the leaflets actually marketing Hipp Formula or their solid food range? I could have sworn it was for solids hence me binning it.

Is the consensus then, any form of advertising of a brand that also manufactures formula is subliminally swaying women to ff? If so, then the likes of Hipp would have to be banned from advertising their solids range from magazines and all other medias.

Fruitbatlings · 01/12/2009 18:30

Actually, as a woman who physically cannot breast feed due PCOS fucking my body up, the odd bit of formula advertising can be quite helpful.

tiktok · 01/12/2009 18:36

The leaflets advertise the Hipp Organics Baby Club, which is a means of reaching new parents with marketing stuff, including formula advertising.

Under UK law, formula manufacturers cannot, unsolicted, advertise or market direct to mothers so they all have these clubs which permits them to 'speak' to their potential customers.

It's a dodge.

Fruitbatlings - I sympathise with anyone trying to get genuine information about formula. You will not get it this way - advertising and marketing does not = information, still less independent information I'm assuming that's what you'd prefer, rather than pics of fluffy bunnies and teddies, and spurious slogans, yes?

pennyrain · 01/12/2009 18:53

I feel that this is all being a bit over analysed...In my opinion FF is normal, it's normal for people like fruitbatlings (as above) or me whose child could not latch on due to horrendous facial injuries as a result of a forcepts delivery, for my husband who enjoys feeding his son formula and who has bonded beautifully, and countless others for countless reasons. However I don't want to get into arguments as it is an emotive subject, and in hindsight I think I was responding as I did because reading various threads on this site have made me angry in protraying FF as "abnormal".

tiktok · 01/12/2009 19:31

No one has said formula feeding is abnormal, pennyrain. Breastfeeding is normal, speaking physiologically. That doesn't mean you have a reason for being angry that formula feeding is not normal, physiologically....formula feeding is normal, socially and culturally. No one is criticising you or anyone who uses formula for any reason (and you clearly had more reason than most - and that must have been a very bad experience for you).

The argument that formula should not be marketed unethically has nothing to do with individual circumstances, really. It's to do with what we want as a society, in general. Individual people should still be free to use formula, either because they have to or because they want to.

IwishIwasmoreorganised · 01/12/2009 19:43

So what's going to be the bst course of action in response to my e-mail?

The FOI route, or just say that I'm an interested Mum?

arolf · 01/12/2009 19:55

it would be good if (for example) the NHS or an independent body could produce a pamphlet giving impartial info on various milks you can give your baby - including breast milk. with pros and cons of both (because there are pros and cons for both breast and formula milk feeding). when i chose to bf, I did it because it's the norm in my family, but nobody had told me how much of a demand it would place on me/that it could hurt/that some babies can spend up to 18 hours in 24 feeding. likewise, any bf counsellors/pro-bf midwives told me only the negatives of ff.

some impartial information, made available to mums early in pregnancy, would be great. (I'd still have chosen to at least try bf, but it would have been nice to see ff portrayed as something other than chubby babies in adverts or inferior in every way to bf by pro-bf types)

sorry for hijack

MincePAELLA · 01/12/2009 21:50

I just had a look at the Hipp site and ff is a part of it. I can see that it may come across as a "lure" to formula feeding but I think it may be more of a way of taking consumers away from other formula brands as opposed to from breastfeeding. Just my opinion from looking at it.

secretgardin · 01/12/2009 22:13

personal choice as far as i am concerned nobody forced me to ff ds or bf dd. it was purely based on circumstances in or out of my control. both are just as healthy as the other one and i was never swayed by any marketing. rather use your energy to promote bf and more support on maternity wards, not undermine mums who had to make the tough choice in ff.

Lisanova · 01/12/2009 22:18

IwishIwasmoreorganised - I think its ok to just be honest and to say that you are interested to know what marketing info is given out because your local hospital is very strict (i hope!) and you wonder if they believe in the same principles?

I expect they thought you were another marketeer!

OP posts:
notcitrus · 01/12/2009 22:24

iwish just say you're a concerned mum, and then mention FOI after that if no joy - they're probably just wondering what background or other info you might want.

I think I read the whole Hipp pack and cut out the sleep chart (before hurling it in the bin a week later) and got to over 6 months before realising Hipp sold formula so I guess they failed there. But credit to Wandsworth Town Hall - they have comfy waiting rooms and I was invited to feed ds during the appt if I wanted and shown a nice room next door I could use for bf afterwards.

SuWoombOfImmaculateConception · 01/12/2009 22:48

Tiktok et al, you know my terrible bf traumas which I am nowhere near 'over'. I chose Hipp organic as the formula I would use for DS2 as it was the least marketed one available. Was I wrong?

tiktok · 01/12/2009 22:50

secretgardin - your post is totally unjustifed. What is 'undermining' to mothers who made 'the tough choice to ff' by asking that this product is marketed ethically? By calling for proper information about ff and not marketing rubbish?

You may not be swayed by marketing. This point has been addressed several times, but people persist in thinking it is all about them. It isn't. It is about the social changes that unethical marketing brings about in the issue of infant feeding and health, which undermine breastfeeding.

It is not an argument to say 'well, it had no impact on me'. It's like me saying 'I don't know why they bother to advertise men's hair restorer - it has no effect on me. And my dh has a lovely head of hair and it has no effect on him either.' Pointless argument, in other words.

secretgardin · 01/12/2009 22:57

my point is that a 50p off voucher didn't sway me to buy formula. the fact was that my ds had lost so much weight, it was either ff or nothing. the vouchers or samples help towards those products once in a while, but it certainly hasn't brainwashed anyone i have known into ff. like all companies, all they are doing is advertising their products. if you don't like it, bin it

tiktok · 01/12/2009 22:58

Su - I don't know if Hipp is the least marketed, sorry - maybe in the UK but probably not in Europe. There are always loads of ads for Hipp in the healthcare professional journals in the UK, anyway.

arolf - I agree there should be more independent info about formula. All the negatives you say about bf can apply to ff (apart from the possibility of sore nipples, I suppose). Not sure what you mean by 'impartial' information - why would midwives, health visitors and others not be open about the different health impacts of bf and ff? What 'pros' are there to ff, from the baby's point of view (apart from it being necessary when the baby is not bf)?

tiktok · 01/12/2009 23:00

secretgardin , you say "my point is that a 50p off voucher didn't sway me to buy formula. the fact was that my ds had lost so much weight, it was either ff or nothing. the vouchers or samples help towards those products once in a while, but it certainly hasn't brainwashed anyone i have known into ff. like all companies, all they are doing is advertising their products. if you don't like it, bin it"

Have you read any of the thread? It is not about you and your individual circumstances. It didn't work for you,but clearly it works for others sufficiently well for them to spend their money on this form of promotion. It's not brainwashing, it's unethical marketing.

'all they are doing is advertising their products'.....yes, and this is unethical. Do you think everything and anything should be advertised freely with no restrictions?

ilovemydogandmrobama · 01/12/2009 23:02

May be an idea to have a chat first. All Councils have to have a designated FOIA person, and they could ask for you to pay a fee. If you speak to them first, it may be possible to get the information without paying the fee as it's discretionary.

secretgardin · 01/12/2009 23:10

tiktok - what others and why am i so different and individual, so that i don't count? are you saying that everyone who goes for formula hasn't thought it through and that a little voucher did sway them? totally bonkers...

minnietheminx007 · 01/12/2009 23:14

Ive had this response, I shall read up a bit of the FOI rules before giving them a ring

Good morning

Thank you for your email

If you would like to contact me on the number below, I will try and help with your enquiry

tiktok · 01/12/2009 23:35

secretgardin - your experience is irrelevant to this argument, because the effect of formula marketing of this sort is bound to vary between individuals. It's the overall effect of marketing to thousands and thousands of new parents that counts - some will be totally unaffected. In any case, one single piece of marketing works with all the other single pieces to create an effect.

Yes, it would be bonkers to say that 'everyone who goes for formula hasn't thought it through and a little voucher has swayed them' - I haven't said anything like that.

verylittlecarrot · 02/12/2009 01:37

secretgardin, I used to be a marketer. If I had been in the formula industry this is how I would market:

Let's say for every 100 leaflets I give out, 90 mothers bin them. 8 mothers decide to switch formula brands because they like the organic angle, or they just happen to be in the market to try a different formula because their current formula is not satisfactory.
But one struggling breastfeeding mother thinks, "oh, bugger it, bf is so difficult at the moment and everyone keeps telling me formula is just as good. Why am I beating myself up to do this? Besides, this Hipp company is organic. Maybe formula is just as good. can't hurt to try..." and they succumb to that 'final straw'. And for them, that's that, curtains for bf.

And as for me, well, I've nicked some market share from my competitors, lovely, but I've also grown the market too - winning one brand new customer who no longer breastfeeds.

Now I haven't in truth got a clue exactly what conversion rates are like for the leaflets we are discussing here, it's an entirely different field to the one I know. I mean, a leaflet that falls out of a magazine advertising say, vertical window blinds, (not my area either, still) will be utterly redundant to huge numbers of people, who have no interest in reviewing their current window dressing situation How often does one even think about a decision like that?!
However, an educated guess tells me response rates to a campaign such as this one targeted at new parents, might actually be very good, because you can guarantee that every recipient of that leaflet WILL be a parent who WILL recently have made, or still be in the process of making a feeding choice. That's a marketer's dream - the PERFECT market audience. I won't do the maths, but you can imagine if we are talking about a million leaflets, not a hundred, and a much higher conversion rate than 1%. And that is just ONE form of media within a multi-faceted marketing plan, for ONE formula company.

In fact, I sometimes muse about what I'd do if I was a ff marketer. Given free rein I would specifically and personally target every new mother at about 3 to 6 weeks post birth, and my marketing would be designed to play up on bf insecurities and challenges, and sell the image of a wonderful, positive, easier ff experience. I'd also offer a time-limited incentive such as free samples or money off, also something cute like a cuddly toy. I'd maybe also link in with a worthy cause, perhaps vaccines or healthcare to children in developing countries, with a donation for every purchase made. I'd also market heavily to the healthcare providers to develop a brand loyalty, expecting an uplift from the effect of their influence on new mothers.

I could obviously go on and on (sorry), and it's fun to play the game. I'd love to be a fly on the wall of a marketing planning meeting for a formula company.

The point is, of the tactics I've listed, some are in fact ILLEGAL. Because our government, along with so many others around the world, have recognised that formula marketing destroys breastfeeding for some mothers and babies. There is no doubt at all that this is true.

You were unaffected by any formula campaign - great! You HAVE to see that others ARE affected, and they are the people the law is trying to protect.

foxytocin · 02/12/2009 02:28

It is not just leaflets that have gone into the wallets though. They have put in a measuring tape and growth and development calendar.

Both of these things are stuff that parents may consider keeping, reading and comparing with their babies.

Every time the parent measures the baby, it sees the handy Hipp logo. Like the midwife with the Aptamil pen.

RibenaBerry · 02/12/2009 09:02

These threads are a bit like Groundhog Day aren't they? I will never understand why so many people believe that being anti-formula advertising means being anti-formula. Some of the strongest advocates of advertising control that I know in real life are formula feeders themselves.

Advsertising does not provide detailed information about a product (except maybe that it is organic). It certainly doesn't allow you to make a fully educated choice of brand. It makes me every day that so many mums who are struggling financially feel that they should choose Aptimil because it's the 'best' and 'closest to breastmilk'. It makes me even more angry that a lot of thing information has been passed on by health visitors and other healthcare professionals.

It also amazes me that so many mums who defend advertising do so on the basis that it provides useful information. I would never suggest that washing powder adverts gave me useful information to choose a product. Like most people, I become aware of brand and give it a whirl. If I'm not happy, I switch to another brand I've heard of. How is formula advertising different from that? I happen to think that mothers who make the difficult decision to ff (or who actively choose to as a positive choice for them, for whatever reason) deserve better information on formula. But advertising is absolutely the wrong place to expect to get that information.

Really interesting stuff on advertising verylittlecarrot. Your suggested tactics really rang true for me with that current advert about iron in cow's milk (the one with gigantic cup. Can't remember the brand). Think it's for growing up rather than follow on milk. They create a false problem (low iron in cow's milk) and then 'solve' it with their formula. No mention of the fact that your child could get their iron from oooh, meat, lentils, etc, etc.

memoo · 02/12/2009 09:11

I think its a little insulting to women to presume that seeing an advert for formula will in any way sway their decision to BF or not!

I'm sure that the vast majority of mothers actually have a mind of their own and come to a decision based on their own personal feelings and circumstances.

RibenaBerry · 02/12/2009 09:22

memoo - Advertisers wouldn't advertise if it didn't work. As has been said repeatedly on this thread, no one is suggesting that a woman who fully intends to breastfeed picks up a Hipp leaflet (or whatever) and says "ooh, I think I'll formaula feed now".

BUT

  • Advertising normalises ff. As I've mentioned above, my teenage cousin thinks that breastfeeding is icky and that formula is just as good. She hasn't got this information from family (all committed bf'ers). She has picked it up from advertising and cultural influences like baby bottles on feeding room doors and in tv programmes. She is someone who, unless she gets strong balancing information later in life, will likely choose to ff her own children one day as a result of advertising.
  • Women struggling with breastfeeding are emotionally extremely very vulnerable (many of us have been there. I'm not saying this to insult or undermine). The pervasive whisper that ff is just as good can, at times of desperation, whisper in your brain that you might as well give up, that there's no real difference, that there's no point struggling. I'm not saying that woman shouldn't stop if they want to, but that this whisper can make it harder if that's not what you want. It's a bit like the way, when I feed my DC to sleep, I can hear the whisper of GF or whoever saying "they'll never learn to do sleep on their own." I am confident in my parenting decisions (and I'm not saying that they're right, just right for me), but the contradictory message still makes me doubt myself.