Please talk to me about night weaning, particulalrly if you are pro-extended bfeeding/co-sleeping

[DitaVonCheese]

DD is just under 14 months, still bfed and still having quite a lot of feeds both day and night (BLWed and doesn't eat loads, so I'm fine with this most of the time). We are also co-sleeping, which obviously makes it quite easy for her to latch on and off during the night. I have been half-heartedly trying to nightwean her for the past week or so, which generally involves her waking up and rooting, me fending her off, a small tussle where she tries to pull the duvet down and I hang on to it, then either her falling back to sleep while I rub her back OR her crying for ten minutes until exhaustion/guilt/sympathy for the neighbours kicks in and I let her latch on anyway

My two issues are: (1) whether there is any point in nightweaning and (2) if so, how to do it.

With regards to (1) my rather vague reasons are that I thought it might encourage her to sleep through the night, plus we are ttc without success at the moment, and I thought night weaning might help (though it's probably more to do with the fact that I simply can't be arsed to have sex most of the time ). Will it help with either of these? I would rather not give up co-sleeping or bfing if I can possibly help it

Sorry I don't have any advice but am watching this thread with interest. I have co-slept with both babies - my second one is now in her cot (17mths) and sometimes needs fed 4 times a night (when she comes in with me for a short while)...I wouldn't mind once a night but at this age I feel this is excessive. Some days I'm a zombie.

Any attempts that I had at night weaning ds were futile. He just wasn't ready and there were knock on effects.

I am guessing you don't want to hear how old he was when he finally stopped night feeds...

Sorry just to add - DD is also BLWed and her food intake can be pretty poor. We aren't TTC but I am TTgetperiodsbackwithaviewtoTTC early next year

I do that same cycle of rubbing, sshing, dummy-ing, crying and then giving into feeding too.

I have read the no-cry-sleep-solution as I'm sure you have too

I'm guessing the only thing you can do is try to discourage it - maybe sleep in a top/bra to restrict access a bit, though I suppose you have already tried that. Maybe try to encourage her to eat more food during the day by offering meals made up of small portions of lots of different foods. (This works for my DS who is also BLW and eats very little some days)

Thanks for the replies

Mawbroon that's interesting - perhaps she just isn't ready. She has been quite slow at a few things (eg eating, not walking yet). What do you mean by knock on effects? I was speaking to my mum's neighbour the other day who told me that her DD didn't sleep through until she was 3, and she had to stop bfing completely in order to stop the night feeds. I wouldn't actually mind stopping bfing completely but it is useful when she doesn't eat much or is ill, plus I cannot imagine trying to get her to stop at the moment!

Sasa nice to know I'm not alone Yep, I've read the NCSS cover to cover a few times now, and read Jay Gordon's guide to night-weaning a co-sleeper and Dr Sears' thoughts on night-weaning too (that night feeds are biologically appropriate and I'm selfish and mean to want to night wean ). It may be selfish, but bearing in mind my first pg symptom was needing to get up several times a night to pee, I would really really like a full night's sleep!

Sorry Bertie x-posts Slept in a t-shirt last night but unfortunately BLW means she has a fantastic pincer grip If we decide to go for it then I think a better barrier might be DH and she can sleep on his side of the bed for a bit ... Guess I'm just still a bit confused about whether it's worth really persisting with it or not. At the moment it's just all a bit half-hearted.

Knock on effects were mainly behaviour related during the day. He is normally very placid, but each time I tinkered with his feeding, he became tantrummy, withdrawn and generally unhappy about three weeks after we stopped night feeding. This disappeared almost instantly on resuming night feeds.

We finally knocked night feeding on the head at easter time this year. There were no repercussions, so I assume that he was ready. We haven't done any night feeds since then, and he still wakes once in the night btw.

Oh, and he's just turned 4.

DS (more "spirited"/"high needs"/"fussy") we had DH cuddle him and say "it's time to sleep... Mummy's asleep... you can have a feed in the morning... time to sleep now" while I determinedly pretended to be asleep. That was probably for a couple of hours on and off the first night, an hour or so the second, and ten minutes or so the third. He was a bit older though, probably nearly two.

DD (more laid back) I basically did the equivalent myself (without the pretending to be asleep thing) -- so patting/rubbing her back/tummy and saying "It's sleepy time... time to sleep" but (because of temperamental differences) that only took about ten minutes to begin with and rapidly down to a minute or so. She was probably about 14 months at the time.

We didn't co-sleep but did extended BF up to 18 months. We didn't manage to get her to sleep through until she was offered water a few nights in a row (not very well received, may I add) and she then cottoned on that there were no more midnight feasts. She was probably 16-17 months at the time and we were slowly cutting feeds back.

I stopped co sleeping when DD was 9 months because she was constantly grazing.

Then I stopped Bfeeding at night because the milk is why she was still waking up every 2 hours. she slept better after about 2 weeks but still woke up for a bottle in the early hours.
I continued day feeds untill 13 months when she self weaned completely.

At 18 months, have to say she still wakes up at night but is able to understand now that she won't get milk until wake up time.

Bottom line is that distance + stopping night feed cold turkey was the only way to go for us.
Heart wrenching at first but very quick improvement on sleep pattern + helped transition towards self weaning / self soothing.

good luck.

Oh and you can't do this half heartedly. They are very clever!

So really, its whenever YOU are ready I think.

i'm not an expert but it seems natural to me that babies would have sleep cycles and wake and get used to having a little nibble if it's right there ... basically you want to break that cycle and have her go back to sleep on her own.

Eating more during the day would probably help.

My son loved BFing like nothing else but adapted quickly once he was eating loads and needed far less milk. Now he has only one tiny feed before bedtime and he doesn't seem that bothered even (now nearly 16 months).

He stopped waking in the night around 11 months and now sleeps peacefully for 12 or 13 hours a night - not in our bed though. Unfortunately I think many little ones sleep lightly when they are in bed and every little duvet rustle can wake them.

if you want to keep co-sleeping, i think you just have to stop offering night feeds until the habit is broken.

WE nightweaned about 15-17 months IIRC and am still feeding once or twice a day at 27 months... If he's particularly unsettled at night or ill I do still feed him in the night but we try and cut it out again quickly.

I would rather give up BF completely now but he has other ideas!

The only way we could do it was with the assistance of DP and earplugs for me. And determination. It only took a few days for him to sleep right through and his whole mood and levels of happiness during the day were better (as were ours) because we were all just getting more sleep.

I would recommend it if you're able to put up with a bit of crying and there is someone else around who can go in and sit with him at night for a few days. It is hard and painful all round but worth it.

Sorry - should have said DS3 was in a cot in his own room when we did it too... Would not have worked earlier when he was co-sleeping most of the time...

We night-weaned at about 19 months.

I would give a last bf downstairs then DH took him up to bed. Any wakings up to 1130ish, I would go and bf him back to sleep. After that, I slept in the spare room and DH dealt with night wakings until about 6am. We told DS that the milk was asleep and it was time to go to sleep. It did work up to a point- my periods finally returned and I was pregnant 2 months later.
However, we continued to co-sleep and gradually the night feeds crept in again. We are planning to give it another try this weekend, with the eventual aim of moving DS into his own bed and then own room. As much as I love co-sleeping I don't want to be doing it in late pregnancy, or having a toddler sharing with a newborn.

Something that really helped was giving lots of warning in the day, telling him what would happen when he woke up etc. The first night we forgot to do that and it was a disaster, the second night went much better.

Reading all this with interest. Am still BF 16 month old but seemed to have slipped into co-sleeping. Baby has nights when constantly snacking. It is exhausting. Any-one with more experience think best to put her back in cot to help cycle? I've read co-sleeping excellent for baby but can go on a long time. Happy to put up with it all if doesn't go on for years!!!

Dita,
I am a very similar situation to you, with my 14 month old cosleeping nurseling. I tried cuddling instead of nursing, when he signed for milk and he looked confused and got so upset. I thought life is too short to upset him for something I don't mind giving him. I just have a vague nagging thought that he 'should' be night weaned by now.

Saying that I have find co-sleeping/breastfeeding at night easy and I get plenty of sleep. I am struggling more with the lack of any 'me time' as for the last few months, he has been refusing to go to sleep without me, so he is up until I go to bed...answers on a postcard, if I could get him to sleep on his own between 7pm and 10pm I would be delighted

Thanks so much for all the replies - very interesting reading. I think that I am just not bothered enough about it at the moment to force the issue - it just gets a bit exhausting when she wants to feed all night and I'm stuck in one position unable to move and fine though the latch is, it does start to chafe after a few hours! I think I will try to wait until she is a bit older and understands a little more and hopefully eating more food during the day (though last night I did in desperation tuck the duvet firmly across my chest and say (sleepily) "Milk's asleep now" or something like that, and she seemed to get the gist!). She is also going through an extremely clingy phase atm and demands bf near-constantly day and night so the timing feels very wrong right now.

Chandellina I am a big fan of the what seems most natural approach She is slowly eating more during the day, so fingers crossed we'll get there in the end!

Wilf Tbh it would be great if she self-weaned completely now, but the thought of taking away something that she loves so much is heartbreaking, and she certainly doesn't seem to be cutting down! (But then every time she gets ill I'm grateful that we're still bfing.)

Hi sophie Not much experience here but does sound like putting her back in her cot would help.

Babieseverywhere we were at this stage a little while ago - for a very long time (up to 9 months?) she would just cluster feed all evening and I felt like I had no time to do anything at all - very frustrating Trying to remember how we changed things ... I think we went from her snoozing/feeding on me all evening to falling asleep in my arms and then sleeping in her chair in the living room for a few hours until we went to bed. When she started getting disturbed by the telly etc we made the transition to her sleeping upstairs in the evening, I think by doing the whole bed time routine thing (dinner, bath, massage (though that got dropped pretty fast), book (though she is usually tugging at my top at this stage), boob to sleep, bed). The first few nights/week or so it was a disaster and I remember thinking it was NEVER going to work. We've never managed to get her to sleep in her cot, so now she just sleeps on our bed (with a bed guard on one side and a wall of pillows on the other) until we go up. Good luck - I loved cuddling her all evening when she was tiny but it's nice to have my evenings back now!

i think i stopped full co-sleep at about 10m and night feeding (ie between midnight and 4am) at about 13m. that is when i went back to work anyway. i have cut down on feeding on demand ever since and now is mainly bedtime. but that is about as gradual a reduction as is possible since we are 60m now.

I am in the same boat with my 14mth old - most of the time it's OK, but now and then starts to get annoying - if it was once or twice in the night I wouldn't mind at all, but every hour or 2 gets a bit old. I think I will leave it a bit though as all the solutions sound potentially more work than the problem!

Nice to moan somewhere that people can understand why I've done it this way though.

Babieseverywhere, I feel your pain! But am gradually getting bits of evening back as dd gets more knackered in the day and have gone from her being up till my bedtime, to asleep on my lap while I watch tv, to asleep on the bed till my bedtime. Hope yours goes that way soon - even half an hour in the evening feels like a luxury, doesn't it?

I did Jay Gordon's 'gentle night weaning' (you can google it) when DD was 17 months old and we were co-sleeping. I got fed up with her still waking up every two to three hours for a breastfeed. It basically involves refusing to breastfeed for a 6 hour period every night. You do everything else to get her to sleep (offering water, cuddling etc) but not breastfeeding. She was upset about it at first, but stopped waking up for those feeds within a week.

It took about 5 days for her to start sleeping 6 or 7 hours in a row and a month or so for her to be sleeping about 10 hours. She's nearly two now and sleeps about 11 hours and we moved her into her own bed a few weeks ago.

mawbroon, how did I know I'd find you on this thread?

I've tried stopping the night feeds but I find DS's crying too heart-rending.

He's 3.5