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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Will she ever latch on?

52 replies

JennyWren · 15/06/2005 23:07

My dd is now 9 days old and has never latched on to breastfeed. I had a long second stage of labour (7.5 hours) and she was too tired to feed at delivery, and then I had a PPH and wasn't well enough to try again for the rest of the afternoon. I feel that this delay probably was a big part of the reason for her reluctance to breastfeed . By the time I could try, she wasn't interested - she didn't seem to know to open her mouth wide enough and although we persevered gently she became very upset and angry, so we had to keep stopping until she calmed down. In the end, we gave her donor milk using a syringe until I could express colostrum, then we gave that using a syringe. After 3 nights in the major hospital we transferred back to the cottage hospital where I had been labouring originally (I was transferred in second stage to be able to have the oxytocin drip), where we were recommended to change from a syringe to a bottle to encourage dd to suck. The midwives there were really supportive, and helped us try every feed to get dd to latch - we've tried the traditional hold, the rugby ball hold and lying on my side with dd 'feeding' from the top and the lower breast.

Is there anything else we should be trying? We have at least one prolonged session every day of skin-to-skin contact, letting dd crawl up my stomach - she heads for my nipple but never latches on. Every feed we encourage her to breast feed, and we've tried before her bottle, midway through the feed and after the feed, with an equal lack of success. We also tried using nipple shields, but she didn't take to those either. I've just read Mears' link on starlover's thread, about rebirthing, and I'm hoping to try that tomorrow morning when my dh is at home. Any other ideas anyone?

I also have 2 other questions. At present, I am expressing enough milk for all of Megan's feeds, but I am worried that I won't keep pace with her increasing demand. Tonight she is having a growth spurt phase and waking more often than usual to be fed, and I'm only just ahead of the game. I'm expressing every three hours during the day and whenever dd wakes for a feed during the night. I try to aim for one pump more than dd has a feed, and on the whole get about the same or a little more over the course of 24 hours as dd drinks. How long can I expect to keep pace with her demand? Is there anything else I can do to increase my supply?

Also, how long is the longest you have known a baby continue like this before they finally latch on? Am I flogging a lame horse? How long should I persevere before accepting defeat?

Expressing like this is very restricting - I could breastfeed anywhere but I can't exactly plug my hospital grade pump in and pump in the Tesco cafe! I don't mind though, as long as there is actually a point to it. I am trying to keep positive and take one feed at a time, but I have to think ahead a bit. My plan, such as it is, is to keep going as long as I can match dd's demand, then supplement with formula as needed, and at that point I think I will have to re-evaluate how often I want to express, just so that I can get out of the house. It isn't so bad whilst dh is on paternity leave, but once he's gone back to work, if I have to bottlefeed then pump every time dd feeds I'll never get out of the house at all, and I can't do that for 6 months!

Sorry for such a long post and thanks for your advice!

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sazhig · 20/06/2005 00:58

Just wanted to add my support - you sound like you have the determination to make this work - and it will evetually! I hope you don't mind me posting my bf story (the brief version would you believe!!) to help you see that you can successfully bf even with a not so good start.

I too had real problems bfing my ds from the start. (he is now 11 months). I was very tired (40 hours labour, 50-odd hours without sleep) and ds had trouble opening his mouth & he lept putting his tongue up. Had lots of advice from lots of midwives (mostly not v good though) and ds was manhadled (as was I) so badly that he became afraid of my boobs. They gave me a pump so I could express but I was so tired that I stupidly listened to some of the other advice and we ended up giving formula when he was only 1 day old (& in such quantities that he wasnt interested in the boob grrr). I got fed up of others feeding my baby that i eventually gave him a bottle on his 2nd day (the mw's refused to show me how to cup feed) which in hindsight was not the best as he ended up nipple confused as well, but I'd had no sleep for 4 days by then so I can't really blame myself. We left hospital (running to get away from bad bf advice!!) on his 4th day. Luckily my supply was quite good so we managed to drop the formula top ups after 1 week, but he wouldn't latch on at all for 4 weeks, so every time he wanted feeding I would: try & fail to latch him on, then warm up a bottle of ebm, then feed him & then express. It was exhausting, but I was determined to get him feeding as nature intended! We tried every trick (with the help of an LLL councillor) & they all failed, until I tried shields (our last resort). He latched on straight away & never looked back really. I think he got used to the feel of silicone! It did take another 3 & 1/2 months to get him off the shields, but it was well worth it. We are still bf today & I can honestly say it is the best thing I have ever achieved & I love every minute of every feed.

I hope you too find a solution that works for you & wish you well - I would love to hear how you are doing. Keep remebering that bf is a learned art! You & your LO will get the hang of it eventually.

Kind regards
Saz

mandyc66 · 20/06/2005 10:01

nice story. I am glad it worked out for you!

throckenholt · 20/06/2005 10:08

HI JennyWren,

don't worry about the odd formula topup - just look at it as a useful tool when needed.

A lot of babies seem to take about a month to get used to the idea of breastfeeding - mine included.

You just have to be bloody minded enough to keep at it, and have confidence that your body is capable of producing enough.

My biggest tip is don't get stressed about how much you are expressing - that is a sure way to get less. And don't pump for more than 20 minutes - go away and pump again in 2 hours if necessary instead.

JennyWren · 20/06/2005 16:53

She did it!!! Well, nearly. Today we went back into hospital for some help and the fantastic midwife helped me to use a nipple shield, and dd suckled using that. Not as good as going directly, I know, but a definite improvement. We've since fed at home, again using the nipple shield. I'm still going to keep pumping for the time being, because she may still need top ups or have times when she won't suckle, but I'm hoping that this really is the beginning of breastfeeding. We're going to go to the breastfeeding clinic at the John Radcliffe on Thursday, and hopefully they'll help me to start her feeding without the nipple shield. Keep your fingers crossed for us...

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sazhig · 20/06/2005 17:18

Jenny - really pleased for you - its a fab feeling when they finally do it (even with a bit of silicone!!). Keep at it - you are doing great!

Sarah

throckenholt · 22/06/2005 08:51

good progress ! Keep faith that you can both learn to do it in time - and don't let the set backs put you off - there will be a few times when you think it is not working - but keep at it and you will get there.

berolina · 22/06/2005 10:10

Jenny - brilliant! Congratulate yourself and baby!
See my thread for inspiration that it can be done - so far we continue to be on the up

mandyc66 · 22/06/2005 12:48

i am really pleased enjoy this experience!!!

JennyWren · 22/06/2005 21:01

Hi everyone. Just wanted to update you - dd is now getting all of her feeds from me, with a nipple shield. She still has trouble latching sometimes, but if I take her away from the breast and calm her down, then try again, it always works eventually. And she certainly seems to be getting enough - milky smiles and very contented sleep! I strongly believe that if she was still hungry she would let us know - she's not backwards in coming forwards in that respect! We're going to go up to the breastfeeding clinic at the JR tomorrow, in the hope that they can help us to start to move onto the next stage so that she doesn't need the nipple shield.

Berolina - I'm thrilled to hear that things are going well for you and Samuel. We will get there! I've been out today and spent a horrific amount of money buying some new tops with buttons up the front which actually do up across my newly expanded cleavage. Having spent the last week wearing two tops on a 'one on, one in the wash' basis, I finally made it out of the house with enough time to go into a shop and try things on! We will breastfeed, and we will learn how to do it discreetly enough to feed in public!!!

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berolina · 22/06/2005 21:04

Jenny, that's brilliant
JR as in John Radcliffe? Are you in Oxford?

JennyWren · 22/06/2005 21:09

Just south of Oxford - near Wallingford. Do you know the area? You live in Germany now don't you?

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yoyo · 22/06/2005 21:26

Who is at the JR these days? I used to see Chloe Fisher (sp?) and another woman who I think was called Sarah. They were very good and incredibly patient. Good luck!

berolina · 22/06/2005 21:33

Jenny - I studied in Oxford. Yup, live in Germany now.

JennyWren · 22/06/2005 21:58

Chloe Fisher is still there, and someone else - I think her name is Sally Inch. All the midwives at Wallingford hospital rave about them; they have a really good reputation locally.

Berolina - I also used to study at Oxford, although now I work in Maidenhead, when I'm not on maternity leave. It's a great area, especially because it is fairly close to our families and friends - although not so close that our mothers can just pop around unannounced!

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yoyo · 22/06/2005 22:22

Sally, yes, she's lovely. Actually preferred her to CF.

JennyWren · 24/06/2005 21:08

We went, and they were great!
Sally spent ages with us - dd didn't feed well, but Sally has identified the problem, and we have homework to do! DD isn't sticking her tongue forward as she should, so Sally asked us to go back onto the bottles, and use it as a reward system - give the bottle only when dd sticks her tongue forward in the right way. As long as she doesn't get too upset, we can take the teat out and 're-give' it several times each feed to practice. We've also been using the mimicing idea, and spend most of our time sticking our tongues out at her It sounds crazy, but it is working and she seems much better already. We're going back to the clinic next week for the next step.

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mears · 24/06/2005 21:10

You'll need to keep us updated with your clinic visits just like hub2dee and his NCT classes Glad it was helpful.

JennyWren · 04/07/2005 22:43

We've kept going, and we've been doing our homework, but still no joy. I'm starting to accept that she probably won't breastfeed now. We'll keep going to the clinic this week, and see, but dd is 4 weeks old now and she still gets frustrated and upset. I think that the older she gets, the firmer she gets in her preference for the bottle, which she seems to accept as the 'right' way to feed. She is certainly happy on the bottles, and although I wouldn't ever have chosen this, it does have advantages - my dh can help with the feeds, and as she never snacks, but always has a full feed, she has a really good routine, and she is very predictable in when she wants to eat and sleep, which is handy!

I'm starting to think ahead now - I'm still expressing all of her milk, but I don't want to keep doing this for the next 5 months. I know that some people do, and I admire them, but it's not for me. I can't keep up the expressing in the middle of the night, and I'm finding the timings of the pumps to be really restricting. During the day I need to pump whilst dd is having her naps, as it is too difficult to organise when she's awake. That means I need to pump mid morning and mid afternoon, and I am finding that really restricting in terms of going out and getting anything else done. So, I need to stop, or at least to reduce the number of expresses. I want to at least drop the number to 4 a day (from 6) - morning, lunchtime, dinner time and bedtime would be manageable in the long term, but I still have questions.

Firstly, given that dd won't be getting breastmilk until 6 months, are there any other milestones I should know about beforehand? For example, I'd hate to stop at six weeks, and then find later that research shows that breastmilk to eight weeks confers protection against such and such... Also, would there be any significant health benefits for her in getting some EBM feeds and some formula? If I pumped four times a day, that would be 3 or 4 feeds at the moment (4oz each). Is it worth it, and how long for?

And if I drop expressing sessions, should I drop them one at a time completely, or should I reduce the number of minutes I pump for first? At the moment, I do five minutes on each breast then another five minutes on each. Should I start by just pumping each breast until the flow slows the first time, then stopping?

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mears · 04/07/2005 23:03

Hi Jennywren - sorry it is not working out for you. Have you tried nipple shields at all? Perhaps she might accept the silicone?

As to your other question there has been ongoing research from Dundee (Howie). They found that breastmilk till at least 13 weeks conferred protection against gastrointestinal illness. Here is a link with the information you asked for

Are you able to get a double pump? That would reduce your time expressing. Until you can get one, you could speed up expressing by switching from side to side as the milk flow slows rather than pumping for a set number of minutes at a time. The opposite breast lets down milk when you are pumping from one side. By switching sides when the milk flows it encourages another let down.

You are doing really well and I think you are really sensible in trying to work out a workable pattern for you.

When you want to go out could DH give a feed whilst you express? Have you been able to stockpile milk at all? I donated milk to SCBU while breastfeeding my DD and I expressed whenever I felt full. You might find that not being too rigid about expressing might help.

There is a good website about expressing - will have a hunt for you

berolina · 04/07/2005 23:03

Jenny, I'm sorry things still aren't ideal.
I am absolutely not the expert, but I believe there is a study that found out bf for 13 weeks or longer confers longish-term protection against gastro-intestinal illnesses. Also, mixed feeding does reduce the protective effect against allergies, but most of the other protective effects are still there, I think. Tiktok, mears or anyone else please correct me if I'm wrong...
The main thing is to congratulate yourself on your determination and for getting this far! You've already done a wonderful thing for your dd

berolina · 04/07/2005 23:04

x posts mears! Gosh - I'm right!

moondog · 04/07/2005 23:13

JennyWren,just read this all the way through. What a rollercoaster you've been on eh?
Just wanted to let you know that you are in my thoughts and are doing a fantastic job. A lot of us have had really difficult times with b/feeding and know just hoe dispiriting and all consuming it can be when things aren't going right.

(BTW, I am intrigued by references to this 'rebirthing' thread. Can't seem to identify which one it is. If anyone has the energy to point me in the right diresction I would be most grateful)

Gosh,just read this back and the first line sounds most pompous and stuffy. I'm not Princess Anne, honest!!

Just feel for you Jenny.

XX

mears · 04/07/2005 23:16

Well done Berolina

this website may be able to help with expressing information

JennyWren · 07/07/2005 04:06

She did it!!!!
We went to the clinic on Tuesday and for the first time ever (she is now 4 weeks old), dd breastfed! She had a good feed on both sides and slept, a contented little bunny. I, on the other hand, cried!
We needed a lot of help though to get a latch, so they have asked us not to try again a home on our own, but to wait until we go back to the clinic today - they felt it was really important for dd's last memory of breastfeeding to be a positive one, and not to try, fail and become upset at home, as that might put her back. But my dh is going to take over getting dd ready in the morning so that I can get myself sorted out early and we can get up to the clinic early so that we can stay for several feeds - I've made a packed lunch and I'm taking a book for the time in between feeds! I'll let you know how we get on...

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berolina · 07/07/2005 04:16

Yay!!! WELL DONE you and dd!
Coincidentally 4 weeks (or just before) is the time it really came together for me and ds. Here's hoping you both are on the up now too!!!