breastfeeding and new baby chaos

[ames]

me again! Thought i start a new thread but it carries on really from sicky,sicky baby but I'm really starting to lose the plot now. The doc has prescribed gaviscon for ds (7weeks) but it has no made much diference so far. I thought it woul be easier to give the gaviscon and perhaps better for ds to formula feed him. He has only taken 3oz per feed so far, has been awake since 4am only shutting his eyes for ten minutes then waking up screaming, i've also breastfeed him twice today a he seemed desperate for it, but he has come off after a couple of minutes screaming and then promptly been sick, slept for 5 mins only to wake screaming. There is plenty of milk although I'm probably not eating as well as i should through complete loss of oppurtunity. DD is 16months and teething. i managed to breastfeed he her to 7 months. To put it simply i cant cope, i'm not sure wether i'm breast or bottle feeding ds, either one or other or both dd and ds are screaming all the time which i feel is my fault - dd because i'm not giving her enough attention and ds because i cant even feed him properly and i'm absolutly knackered for the last 2 years i've been prgnant or breastfeeding or both. I justdont seem to be able to cope with 2 children. Ds just wants to be held constantly which i just cant physically manage. can anyone help me get back on track?

I can't give you any practical solutions - only my best wishes. It sounds like you're having a truly horrible time. All you can do is your best - do remember it isn't your fault. Maybe you could put a big notice above the cot with the words "it will get better".

Could it be that Gaviscon is not doing enough? Two of my sons had reflux (assume that's the problem) one 'ordinary' and one 'silent'. I was b/f each time. Both ended up needing to use a feed thickner (Carabel - if I remember rightly) as well as Gaviscon. It was easier to give this in a bottle with the milk so I expressed feeds (for about 4 or 5 mths). It really made a difference and put an end to the screaming and/or being sick routine.
Problem resolved when solids were established.

I have baby number 3 (now 11mths) and know how tired you must feel. B/f him in early days was a nightmare as the other two (6 and 3) always wanted/needed something just as a b/f had started. I was torn between continuing or changing to formula. But, I persevered and hey presto, he is still having a b/f every day (albeit only once). Also, remember it is possible to combine breast and formula - this might give you a much needed break. And, have you tried one of those front baby slings? Pop baby in and work about with two free hands (they are really quite comfy and baby might enjoy the movement and sense of closeness).

Hope things work out.

Thanks for the support so far. I was expressing my milk and giving it to ds but last 2 days have been expressing to keep up my supply (in case formula feeding doent work out) freezing that and then giving him formula as I've got it into my head that my milk isn't 'good' enough although he is ganing weight but never seems satisfied. I've also been breastffeing him during the night. Itdoesnt help that breastfeeding him is not going very well he comes off screaming and choking still. I'm confused as to how best to feed him and cope with the reflux so no wonder he's in a tizz. Where can i buy one of these slings from, i've got a baby carrier but not a sling

Ames - can you contact a breastfeeding counsellor who might be able to help you?

Your milk is perfectly good for your baby but I can understand the problems you are facingand why you are in such a dilemma. Breastmilk is easier to digest than formula and doesn't smell when brought back up. The fact that he has gained weight means that it is good for him.

Is he as sick during the night when you feed him?

You need someone to help you face to face ames. Try calling a local counsellor who may have come across with similar problems. I think in the long run, formula feeding will have the same problems if not more. You don't want to give yourseld even more milk. Go back to the doctor as well if the gaviscon is not working. There may be something else you can try. Ask for a referral to a paediatrician. I do hope things get better for you soon.

No advice I'm afraid ames - but lots of sympathy. I have having a few problems with my very new ds but your post puts them into perspective. Just also wondering at what age your baby started to show signs of reflux?
I think a carrier is the same as a sling?

Just to add, there are other things for reflux, my sister found the Gaviscon never worked for her, and eventually her DD had Zantac, which makes the stomach contents less acidic - and it worked! If you have been trying the Gaviscon for a week, go back to the doctor and say it is not working.

Oh, poor you. You do sound fed up and from what I remember of the chaos of some of the early days - and that was with just one baby - I can totally understand how you feel.

However, your breast milk is more than OK, it is totally perfect for your baby and the fact that he is gaining weight is proof of that. What you eat has no effect on the 'goodness' of your milk - all the studies show that the milk from starving African women is pretty much identical to that from the best nourished Western women. It is far superior to formula (no offence to formula feeders) so please don't swap your liquid gold for formula through lack of confidence. I agree, I think you could probably do with some face to face help with the b/feeding but also some proper respite with your two children. Is there anyone at all who can help you? Family? Could your mum pop round and take the baby or your dd or both to the park? Even a nice local teenager who can take the baby for a walk in the pram or play with your dd while you get a bit of time to sleep/sit whatever. I hope things get better for you soon. Also tell your dh how overwhelmed you are and ask him to take a couple of days off work to help you.

Another place to get a bit of practical help could be from a local college which runs Child Care courses. The students need practical experience and whilst I don't think you can leave them in sole charge, it would be another pair of hands. Or Home Start may run a scheme in your area, where an experienced mum who's BTDT comes to give you some support. Both are FOC. You should find the phone numbers in your local phone book. I hope you're soon over this sticky patch.

how's it gone today? been thinking about you

I am a good friend of Mears, a midwife and a mother of four children. I have breastfed for a total of 7 years and my ds, who is now 14 was exactly like your ds is now. Im afraid he was awful for nearly two years. He fed all the time, was sick all the time, had colic and never slept for more than 2 hours at a stretch! I have since had two more sons, who have fed well, with no problems and I have read and researched the subject and even written a book to try and help other women. You can go to my web-site at sharontrotter.org.uk and I will e.mail you it. There was a wonderful moment when I read an article called 'colic,overfeeding and symptoms of the lactose malabsorbtion in the breastfed baby: a possible artifact of feed management'. This was published in the Lancet on aug 13 1988. It made me cry, to think that I had persevered with feeding my son from both breasts, when the simple option of changing to one side at a time could have made all the difference. You need to get some immediate help over the next few days, so you can concentrate on changing the way you feed. You need to stop all drugs and formula feeds and let everything else go on hold. Feed only from one side at a time and if ds only takes a small feed, stay on that side until he has emptied the breast. You may feel a bit lopsided for a while but it will settle down in a few days. I know this sounds drastic, but you are in a vicious circle that will be no good for you, ds, dd or indeed you partner. Give it a go and tell me how you are getting on. I will help all I can at any time. Try to get the article from the internet or the library and read it. Remember this is only a stage and you are too swamped to see that at the moment. You have to just take things one step at a time and get as much help as possible to get you through to a much calmer way of feeding. Look forward to hearing how you are coping. Good luck!!

apologies - very long post. ames - i wish i had read your posts before now, including the sicky baby one. I am fortunate not to have a baby who is sick all the time, however, I have had and am having right now the exact same problem of my baby choking almost as soon as the milk starts to flow. She comes off screaming and from then on the whole feed is just stop start stop start, few sucks, scream, milk all over her face etc. She is now 9 weeks, but I first had problems at 5.5 weeks. I spoke to an extremely helpful bf counsellor at King's hospital in South London, and she said it was called "dramatic let-down". She suggested adopting a position which really helped - basically me reclining with the baby lying on me vertically, her tummy on my tummy, her legs dangling between my legs. Sort of like she was approaching the breast from on top with the reasoning that if she is higher than the breast, then the milk doesn't spurt right down her throat. Like mears said - breastfeeding uphill. I did this for every feed for about 10 days. Totally impractical as regards going out and about, and difficult with a 2.5 year old that I also have, but I did persevere and got through it. She stopped screaming and gingerly after 10 days I started to adopt more of a sitting position and was relieved to find that my dd could cope with it. The counsellor also advised expressing 30ml AFTER a feed, e.g. hindmilk, and giving this to my baby BEFORE the next feed. The logic here is that you line her stomach with hindmilk to help her digest the foremilk which is lactose-heavy, too much of which can cause painful tummies and wind (correct me if I am wrong any experts out there). I also spoke to an NCT counsellor who advised expressing the foremilk off a bit before each feed which helped to slightly lessen the flow and also saved her from getting a massive dose of lactose. I did this as well!
Unfortunately, the problem has re-surfaced now at 9 weeks, and I don't feel I have the energy to go through it all again, although i have been lying down today to feed while considering all the other options. I bf for 20 weeks with no1 and would have liked to have gone on longer, and I feel to stop at 9 weeks with no2 would really upset me.
It is so difficult though if you have problems with bf and a toddler too. The bf and the baby just obsess me, and I can't think straight as regards toddler or give him attention at all - nightmare! Feeding, expressing, sterilising pumps and bottles to give hindmilk etc is a full-time job.
Sorry if this is a bit of a selfish post Ames as I know you have other greater problems than the milk-flow thing, but I thought telling you about this bf position might help you. If anyone else can suggest anything to lessen "dramatic let-down" I would be so grateful.
PS I pretty much always feed from one breast at each feed- dd never seems to empty it before she stops naturally anyway. I did wonder if this means the other breast gets very full between its "turn" and therefore "lets down" too much when it's time to feed on that one, therefore adding to my problem????

Hi Ames, have just read your post and just wanted to let you know that I really sympathise with you and am thinking about you. I thought I had my hands full with 22 month old dd and 7 week ds, but with 16 month old and 7 week you have your work cut out. I know what you mean about not sure whether you're breast or bottle feeding. I started off breast feeding ds but unfortunately about a month was all I managed and I have to be honest and say that I do really miss it. Ds is ok on formula and seems reasonably content so I guess that is the main thing. I too think to myself that I am just not coping with 2 children, yesterday was a bad day, I felt like a failure because at tea-time I just couldn't cope, dd was playing up and ds crying, dh had just got back from Portsmouth where he works and I had to get him to take over for a while so I could just go outside for 5 minutes to "chill out". I think it is so common to worry that you are not giving the older child enough attention, I seem to feel constantly guilty about this and dd is really playing up at the moment. Family and friends keep saying don't worry it's just a phase but it just seems to be dragging on and on. Also have a very "cuddly" 7 week old ds who likes to be held alot, but as you say it just isn't physically possibly when you have another one to consider. Sorry that I don't have any practical advice to give you, but just wanted you to know that you are not alone and I do know exactly how you are feeling.
How is your ds now, is he still sicky? Please keep posting and let us know how you are getting on.
Thinking of you,
Melly xx

Wow thanks for all the support and meely and quimble it nice too know i'm not the only one having problems. I started crying on the phone to my mum the other day, ds started screaming again and i couldnt rememer what I was saying, she rushed round and helped by giving dd a bath and such so that was a help.

I'd never heard the phrase dramatic let down but it sums it up very well. Ds is now having about 300 hundered bottles a day of which he takes between 1-3oz's and 2 breastfeeds (not sure how much there!) am loathed to admit it but he hates the breastfeeds and has is quite contented after the bottle feeds - so much so that he actually slept for 2 hours yesterday afternoon. He looked so peacefull i was nearly crying.

I definatly know what you mean quimble about going through it all again. Breasfeeding is supposed to be all lovely and nice and I thought it would be even easier second time and its not its an absolute nightmare. But on the other hand I think it is best for ds and I managed to feed dd till 7 months when i found i was pg again so I feel its only fair to carry on ( untill I see he much he struggles)

Nobubbles i will be definatly get to read what you've suggested. It sounds very interesting

Anyway that was half an hour where dd and ds were both asleep but now dd is awake (ds sleeps on!)I do read the messages but sometimes dont get chance to post back - eeek it cheered me up to know someone had thought about me! So thanks again

ames - so glad that you are feeling a little better. You are doing all the right things and I promise this will be a passing phase. Life does get easier and you will soon enjoy the simple pleasures of going to the toilet in peace! It would appear that the second child coming along is almost more difficult to deal with than the first, when you have all the time to give to your baby. The second one has to fit in more and along come the feelings of guilt for abandoning the toddler. Parenthood is all about feeling guilty, so its best not to dwell on this. Do contact me via my web-site and I can e.mail you my book. It contains a piece all about my problems when my ds was feeding too much, being sick and not sleeping. Although the formula may be helping at the moment, it sounds as though you really want to persevere with the b/f. Your milk supply is best boosted at night when the prolactin levels are at their highest. You can then cut down on the amount of formula feeds each day until you can find the balance that suits you. It is more likely that you will be less stressed at night, when the toddler is asleep and this may help to get you over this difficult period. Hope this helps. I will keep checking in to see how you are progressing. Take care and remember we all know what you are going through and we all came out the other end!!!!