Would anyone else like to come and tell me to put DS 'on the bottle'?

[suwoo]

Sorry to bore you all with my tales of woe again but DS has only gained another 1oz this week.
He is now 1lb 1oz bigger than his birth weight 11 weeks ago. He has gained 2lb 6 oz in total since his lowest weight.

I am supplementing him with the Medela SNS giving him 3 feeds of 3oz daily.

Why in Gods name is he not gaining? What is happening to the milk? He is feeding really well (so I thought).

People are starting to get twitchy now and suggesting I 'put him on the bottle'. I am like a petulant teenager and just reply 'I'm not' with a face.

Anyone got any bright ideas??????????

Thats a lovely story carrot. You are as dedicated pighheaded as me then?

Yes indeed, Suwoo. If you like I'll pop on to all of your threads going "oh, well. my baby gained faaaar slower than yours, linking you to her excel spreadsheet based stats and weight graph in uber-competitive mummy style.

It'll make you feel better, honest.

If you have a tangible reason to feel something is Wrong - then of course get things checked out. I wouldn't dare stray into dangerous territory of trying to tell you whether your little one is doing great because I can't possibly know from here on this side of my laptop. But you know yourself what the signs of a healthy baby are. And the carrots exist as an anecdote for you to play over in your head when you feel desperate. I promise you, it is possible to gain That Slowly and still be 'normal' and healthy.

3-4oz pw sounds OK for a BF baby.

I take it that the SNS is being used to deliver formula at the same time as BFs? Did you introduce this because you were anxious about him not gaining sufficient weight? There are supplements (herbal and pharmaceutical) that you can take to increase your own milk production (see www.kellymom.com) - but by far the best way to do this is to really s-l-o-w down, take a few days off in bed, lots of skin-to-skin contact with your LO, feeding on demand, and offering both breasts, (and then the first one again, if he wants it), at each feed.

If you can get a BF counsellor to visit (google Association of Breastfeeding Mothers or La Leche League) to check his latch and general positioning etc., then that might help.

Any amount of poo-ey nappies, from a few a day to one a week is deemed in the range of "normal", and yellow poo is standard BF colour. Around 2 mths you might get a few spinachy looking nappies (something to do with gut development I think, but someone with more training and education in these matters will correct me, I am sure).

Don't be hard on yourself, my two both lost loads of weight in the first week (20oz with my firstborn!) and took ages to put it on afterwards (exclusively BF), but are beefy now. The main things to ask yourself is (1) are you getting 5-6 wet nappies a day and (2) is baby alert, content. If you can answer yes to these, am sure things are going fine.

All the best

Suwoo, really sorry to hear this. Did you see my message on the other thread? I wrote you a long message about the SNS set up I am using, much less faffy than the Medela one IMO, the Medela one used to make me cry when I tried it with DD.

I think your plan to just consistently supplement is right. With DD at this stage she was getting 3oz or so extra per feed - I just kept going until she was really full and I was using a bottle to supplement so she did get a good load. Once she was gaining ok and a reasonable weight for her length and age I relaxed a bit. I think your goal should just be to get weight on him right now, using as much breastmilk as possible but relaxing about using formula if that's what it takes for you to have a healthy baby. Formula isn't poison, for some of us it's the only way our babies have been able to thrive. It hurts but it's ok. You will obviously keep on breastfeeding as well, so that connection and great experience will continue in any case. And any breastmilk is fantastic.

You may want to check out this site. I found it (mostly the listserv they run) very helpful in coming to terms with not having been able to have a 'normal', easy breastfeeding relationship with either of my children.

Thinking of you.

Hi suwoo

Have been racking my brains for anything else that you may be able to try. Apologies if this has been suggested already but have you tried observing the pattern of a feed to see if you can improve the milk-to-effort ratio for ds? Will try to explain as best I can, no idea if what I am about to say is common to all, most or many women, or just unique to me but thought it might be worth a shot.

When ds was small (probably up to around 20 weeks) it was very obvious during a feed when a let down was happening and when it wasn't. When I was having a let down ds would drink the same way an adult would drink a cold drink on a hot day. Gulp swallow, and the swallows were very pronounced and pretty much every mouthful. In between letdowns, it would be more like an adult drinking a hot drink, with swallows much less pronounced and less frequent.

After watching a few feeds after I had picked up on this, I realised that the pattern of my letdowns was very regular. The first one would come within 60-90 seconds, and last about 2 minutes. The next 2 would be similar with about 3-4 min gaps, so within 10 minutes or so there would have been 3. After that the spacings were longer and the duration of the let down shorter.

So I knew, for example, that once he had had 4 let downs, if he was a bit fussy there was no point trying to persuade him to feed any more because he would have to suck for at least 5 minutes not getting a lot, whereas if I switched breasts he would get more quicker.

I didn't need to watch closely the whole time because once I realised this I would just be dimly aware the whole time, and could either persuade him to hang on for the next let down or switch. (Also helped to watch a DVD during feeds - I could see how far the DVD had run and I would know at what point he was in the let-odwn process!)

I also found this useful when trying breast compression - sort of trying to 'milk' yourself into the baby's mouth when they are feeding. Worked best just at the end of a let down, and I would see him change from sipping to swallowing again for a few more sucks.

Not sure if the SNS would make this more difficult to spot - it may do but (for me certainly) the difference between let down and non-let down milk flow is so marked I think you would still spot it. When I express, I can get at least 20 times as much milk in a 'let down' minute as a non-let down minute - I know DS will be better at sucking during the non-let-down pahase but I still think the difference is about 10 fold.

oh dear more of the same?

Ring me if you need me.

suwoo. Sorry to hear re your head but completely understand it's all a bit much. I've been there. It will be ok. hang in there.

Big hugs you've done so well to get this far, I hope you can get some RL support asap x

Hi Suwoo,

Just to say hang in there. I agree that you need to look after yourself and if you need to give some ff you are not the devil.

Hope you are ok.

I bf my babies and formula fed them after around a year, it really isn't poison. Babies can thrive on it and grow lovely and healthy just the same. don't feel bad if you can't take it anymore, you did bf some so you did breastfeed.

REally it will be okay whatever you decide, its what is best for you and your situation, bf is not an easy and natural experience for everyone sometimes it is really hard.

11 weeks is nearly three months of bf, so you have done really well to get this far.

Suwoo, you are doing brilliantly.

DS just had a little appetite and seemed to gain slowly but he was still gaining and happy and doing plenty of wet napppies and poos. Your DS average weight gain sounds similar to his he is now a strapping 2 year old.

Are you inadvertently comparing this baby to previous ones as BF babies do gain weight more slowly and will not follow the same patterns as your other DC.

Sending you big hugs and a pat on the back for doing so well.

Thanks again to everyone, you have all been so kind. Thats why I had to leave the thread for a couple of days, I just kept crying because you are all so nice .

Today we've had a breakthrough!!! I went to baby bistro and told the girls all my problems. My gut feeling was that we had latch issues and it seems we did.

His bottom lip was going in not out, so he wasn't 'manipulating' the nipple enough. She also asked me if I always kept my hand on DS's head (which I reckoned I do). I took my hand off his head and we worked on poitioning and he latched himself on 'just like that'! He pulled off a few times and re latched on perfectly. I was

I have decided not to use the SNS for this week now and see what happens. The SNS makes him lazy because he barely needs to suck for it to work. If he doesn't gain 'enough' (whatever that may be) I think I will try topping him up witht the doidy cup.

I think I am on plan Z now. Cross your fingers that, that is IT now.

Will as always, update.

Brill news Suwoo, well done. keep up the good work.

thats great, hope it helps, I did that hand on the head thing in my first week home with dd, is not good, it really hinders them, but you don't know that untill you figure it out, hope is the start of easier feeding for you both

Good luck - I'm sure you'll see a difference soon -pls update.

About to start a new thread, but its not good