Wysoy Vs Neocate

[Lou69]

My 16 week old baby has been covered in a rash from her neck downwards and has suffered from what we thought was reflux from birth. I have been prescribed Wysoy as GP thinks she has a milk allergy. My health visitor has suggested Neocate and is not happy for me to use Wysoy. Can anyone give me some information as to why I need to use Neocate instead of Wysoy so I have a little ammunition when I see my GP again on Friday. I am also concerned about the amount of sugar in Whysoy as my health visitor sugested that I may have trouble weaning if baby is too used to the sweet taste of Wysoy. Thanks

what she said! in fact i didn't think that gp's were supposed to prescribe soy formulas an more

he should have given you nutramigen or neocate.

i wouldn't worry about sugar. all milk has lots of sugar, breastmilk is also very sweet

AFAIK soy based formulas are not recommended until after the age of 6 months because the hydrolysed formulas (e.g. neocate) are superior nutritionally and there is no research on the effect of phyto-oestrogens from soy on babies under 6 months.

Soy can also be a common allergen in babies who are milk allergic and it's unlikely your baby will get allergy tested at such a young age so it's safer for her to be on a special hypoallergenic formula like neocate until you know.

I am surprised your GP prescribed soy formula for such a young baby but I expect he did so because the taste is less revolting than hydrolised formula and so your baby is more likely to accept it...

After 6 months, it's a different matter. Many allergy specialists are now preferring soy as it's actually LESS sugary than the hydrolised stuff. Can't imagine it would affect weaning as all milk is sweet, but it is an issue when they start getting teeth (higher risk of tooth decay).

We've had quite a grounding in all this of late - my DD is milk allergic (and egg and fish) and I BF'd her until 8 months and now we're mix feeding with Infasoy. She's doing very well on it and we've had no trouble with her refusing savoury foods while weaning.

If you haven't already, try and get a referral to a paediatric allergy specialist. Our GP referred DD at 6 months and we had to wait 2 months for an appointment, but it was fab when we did get one - skin prick tests, advice from the allergy consultant and dietician all done in one morning at St Thomas's.

Many babies who have a milk allergy are allergic to cows milk protein which is also present in Soy formula.

So if the soy formula is not clearing up the rash you need Neocate or Nutramigen.

They are both much more expensive to prescribe than Soy formula so that could explain GP reluctance.

Try to get referral to dietitian/allergy specialist and dermatologist at the hospital.

GPs in general do not seem to know much about allergies IME

Girls - cows milk protein isn't present in soy formula, but it is true to say that there are many babies who are allergic to both cows milk protein and soy protein.

While milk is your baby's only source of nutrition I'd be concerned if she was on soy formula... I'd go back to the GP and ask for a prescription for neocate or nutramigen straight away.

There's loads of info on allergies here on mn, I've found it invaluable, hope we've helped a bit and not thrown you into a panic!

Thank you LeonieSoSleepy and all of you for your help. I am really shocked by what I have read and that my GP has given my Wysoy.

Crazy- cmp is in soy formula and is even in Nutramigen.
The amounts are just much smaller.
When you go to the dietitian they give you a list of all the ingredients which form different versions of cmp.

Apparently the baby's tastebuds are tolerant to different formulas before about 7mo and after that could be a struggle to get them to accept.

For those of you with babies on Nutramigen you know how vile it tastes to adults!

don't know about other soya formulas but wysoy does not contain SMP

ingredients:
Dried Glucose Syrup, Vegetable Oils, Soya Protein Isolate, Calcium Phosphate, Sodium Citrate, Magnesium Chloride, Potassium Chloride, Emulsifier (Soya Lecithin), Potassium Citrate, L-methionine, Vitamin C, Choline Chloride, Potassium Hydroxide, Potassium Bicarbonate, Taurine, Inositol, Ferrous Sulphate, Zinc Sulphate, L-Carnitine, Vitamin E, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Vitamin A, Riboflavin, Thiamin, Copper Sulphate, Vitamin B6, Vitamin D, Folic Acid, Potassium Iodide, Vitamin K, Sodium Selenite, Biotin, Vitamin B12.

it's the soya lecithin that apparently has some cmp in.
this is according to the dietitian and doctor i've seen but i'm willing to be corrected!

i also was thinking about this today, and yes, nutramigen (i believe( is based on cows milk

but it isn't just a reguar clows milk formula. the proteins have been altered to allow a dairy intolerant/allergic baby to digest them
so yes, technically it contains CMP, but not in the same form that causes the baby the problem to startwith!

i can't understand how soya lecithin would have cows milk protein in it. it's a kind of fat that is extracted from soy beans

so as an ingredient in something it would be just that, it wouldn't have things added to it

You may well need to get your GP to refer to a paed to get Neocate anyway. Nutramigen is more frequently prescribed as a first port of call - it does have some cmp, though broken down and much less likely to cause any reaction. Neocate proteins are broken down into amino acids and therefore more hypoallergenic. However for this reason it is much more expensive and my GP wouldn't even continue to prescribe it for DD1 (when we moved to a new area) without a paediatrician.(DD1 had severe reflux and a cmp intolerance).

My understanding was the soy formulas are avoided because of both the hormone issues and because a significant proportion of babies with cmp intolerance will also have a problem with soya protein.

I hope you have a helpful gp - in my experience they don't know much about this area, so you may have to insist on a referral to a paediatrician at your local hospital.

Soya lecithin does NOT have CMP in it. DS is anaphylactic with CMP, so I can say that with some certainty.

On the soya front, the evidence is far from conclusive on plant oestrogens, and if I were you I'd do research on BOTH sides of the argument. Further, children with a CMP sensitivity can also react to the shorter protein chains in Neocate/Nutramigen - not trying to worry you, just as a parent of allergic child I know there's a lot to consider.

DD (now 13 months) is allergic to cmp and egg (breastfed but had some top ups in first few days). We found out about the allergy after I gave her some cheese at 6.5 months and her face swelled up. She's also had about a teaspoon of ordinary cow's milk and within a couple of minutes her eczema had flared up so much that she scratched her face until it bled. I think it's still not considered a "serious" allergy because she doesn't stop breathing or anything.

The allergy specialist gave us some nutramigen. We gave her enough to check that she wasn't allergic to that too - I think the cmp isn't fully hydrolysed or whatever - but by that time she was almost 10 months old so wouldn't drink the stuff (it tastes foul).

The dietician we saw suggested that, since we know she's not allergic to soya, she could have soya formula rather than ordinary soya milk as a main drink until she's 2. I've never given her any (had read that it wasn't ideal because of the hormones) and because I've been feeding her for almost 13 months now and it seems pointless to switch to formula now (found it really hard to bf to start with).

We've got the eczema under control now and we're going back for another test in a couple of weeks.

I do feed her other stuff with soya in it though. She has soya milk on her oatibix and really likes soya yogurts. We also found a soya cheese (like philadelphia) that she likes. Is that too much soya? I had started putting rice milk on her cereal but apparently that has too much arsenic in it for babies. If I'm not supposed to use rice milk or soya milk, should we try oat milk?

jasper- maybe my list is of all the soya by products and the cmp ingredients.

nutramigen is broken down with amino acids or something..

tastes like death but dd likes it as had it early enough and her excema has really cleared.

Met with GP who has now prescribed Neocate - much to babys disgust as she will only take 1oz before refusing the bottle! Today she managed to take 1oz from each of the three bottles offered to her and even then I had 'mixed' the neocate with Aptimil in order to disguise the taste a little. This was in the hope that I could increase the Neocate until she wouldn't realise that the Aptimil was missing. Now I don't know what to do as I know she needs to come off of the Aptimil as her rash is terrible, but how do I get her to take the Neocate and how long can I allow her to only take 1oz from each of her 5 feeds? Any advice would be appreciated.

Oh dear Lou.

You could try mixing some in with her food to get her to take a bit more.

I don't know what Neocate tastes like but if it's anything like Nutramigen I don't blame her!

Keep going with the ,mixing and hopefully you'll be able to increase the Neocate slowly but steadily until she gives in.

50% of babies that have allergy to milk also react badly to soy.
Neocate is certainly the safest answer.
The taste is aweful though.