To think there should be a surestart bottlefeeding support group

[Reallytired]

I love my surestart breastfeeding support group. It has been a good source of advice and emotional support. I think its why partly I am enjoying my second baby so much.

I think its a pity that there isn't a similar group for bottlefeeding mothers. I am sure it could prevent postnatal depression in mothers who need support with bottlefeeding. Mothers who do not know how to make up formula could be shown and they could be given professional advice on which formula to use.

Cornish: "A source of impartial advice for formula feeders would really help - just a list of the different formulas available, ingredients, benefits & drawbacks would have been very helpful."

Yes....totally agree.

The reason there isnt one is because no one can compile one that is truly evidence based.

However, NCT has a factsheet that has information about the different formulations, and some discussion about the feelings surrounding formula feeding which might helpwww.nct.org.uk/info-centre/how-do-i/view-43

there is no need for professional advice on which formula to use because HCP's are not allowed to promote a particular brand.

infant formulas are regulated (pitifully but they are) and there really is very little difference. they all have to contain certain thiings, and they are all adequate, nutritionally for a baby.

instructions for making up formula shouldbe on the tin

bottlefeeders are in a vast majority, it is the social norm in this country. thus the need for a support group really isn't necessary- you jusdt have to talk to most other mums and you'll probably find plenty of bottle feeders amongst them!

may i suggest instead, finding a really good mum and baby group?

and agree, i've been to 3 diff breastfeeding cafes all of which have been open to mums who bottle feed.

i think it's important that bottle feeding mums aren't pushed out, not least because the simple act of being around breastfeeding mums and seeing how it all works and being able to talk through stuff may make it easier for them shoudl they wish to try it again next time round!

plus, all donations are more than welcome- regardless of who it comes grom

Reallytired I don't think that ff mums need a seperate support group. Why can't b'feeders and f'feeders support each other together in the same group. If anything we need tons more support for breast feeding, in the form of antenatal stuff, one on one support in the home for new mums postnatally and support via feeding support groups too, so in my opinion I say channel resources into this rather than seperate bottle feeding groups.

Like you, bretgirl and cornish I desperately wanted to breast feed long term and wasn't able to. I used all the support I could get my hands on in my area. In fact I was so bloody persistent in hassleing my bf support counsellors I think they really did get sick of me constantly phoneing - but what bloody use is phone advise when your at home with a tiny baby and struggling to breast feed.

I did at first find it very difficult to feed DD a bottle in public and used to feel gutted when I saw other Mum's breast feeding but that did get easier and to be honest I agree with brettgirl anyone can be supportive by being kind and a friend regardless of whether you breast feed or forumla feed. All my friends with babies have breast fed successfully and have also been hugely supportive to me through all this.

Reallytired if you do want to help then your experience as someone who has established breast feeding successfully and then continued to breast feed are skills which can be used. In my area the local hospital want what they call breast feeding befrienders to work on the wards or in mums homes once they've gone home (voluntarily so you can work it around your baby) offering one on one support (as a mum) to women trying to breast feed. I think this is brilliant, I would definately do it myself but obvioucly I wasn't successful and they would rather mums who are breast feeding do this role. Maybe there is something like this in your area, you could find out?

Thanks for the link TikTok, there are some helpful bits in there.

This is the kind of thing that drives me mad though:
Q. What sort of bottles and teats should I use?
A. Whichever you and your baby prefer. Your midwife or health visitor can guide you.

How vague is that, how the hell do I know what my baby will prefer - and actually my midwife/health visitor will be no more helpful! Why can't someone say Tommy Tippee have a range that simulate the breast/nipple shape closely, whilst Avent have smaller bottles vs Dr Brown which can help reduce colic? Rhetorical - I know why they can't but still frustrating that I couldn't find information like that when I needed it.

Thisisyesterday - the very fact that they are called breastfeeding cafes excludes us, whether or not we'd be welcome if we did turn up. And bottle feeding maybe the norm in this country but in the yummy mummy area where I live it's all breast and Boden. I do not know another bottle feeding Mum.

"Why can't b'feeders and f'feeders support each other together in the same group." - YES! I'm with you Dotty38.

Cornish - but how can a factsheet tell you what bottles and teats to 'prefer'?

The idea behind the 'whichever you prefer' is to say that it makes no flippin' difference - no one range is generally better than another, and there is certainly no decent, impartial evidence that one brand reduces colic...and actually, it doesn't really matter if the shape is like a breast or a nipple, really it doesn't. All that matters is what you and your baby prefer. The m/w and HV should know what's on the market and should keep up to date with the different sorts.

Mmmm, you would hope that the MW/HV could help with market knowledge, sadly not.

Bottom line for bottle feeding is that a central source of factual information about what is available on the market - formulas, sterilisers, bottles, teats, whatever, perhaps supported by real Mum's comments would be very useful. Maybe I should set up a website

It was the emotional support that I could really have done with, all that was available was so biased towards breast feeding whatever the cost that it was just not helpful.

you and the others struggling with feeding guilt, I'm so sorry, I cried when I read some of these posts more than 2 years on from my experience. I found the bf support group very sympathetic first time round and returned there this time when struggling all over again - I managed to establish bf eventually and exclusive bf by 6 weeks.

I think some general baby groups are best with slightly older babies and may or may not be able to help with problems - I cried a lot in the first few months with ds1.

As for what's available on the market, the problem is that such site(s) would be quite vulnerable I fear to commercial misuse rather than unbiased information. I don't think that even bottle feeders need a lot of the kit that is sold to us - I gave away a barely used microwave steriliser and an electronic bottle warmer on Freecycle during my second pregnancy as we used cold water sterilisation - a container from Poundland and a pack of steriliser tablets or liquid for a total of less than £3. I think www.ciao.co.uk and www.dooyoo.co.uk have some useful reviews though, with lots of personal experience, as they are general consumer review sites with a lot of parents of young children who post reviews.

I agree, elkiedee. There are already loads of consumer product websites, and other mothers' experiences can be sought on mumsnet or face to face.

Midwives and HVs who do not know the main aspects of ff in terms of what you need to buy and what you don't need to buy are not doing their job

Cornish - I agree the emotional support is definitely lacking. That was one of the reasons behind NCT's factsheet - to acknowledge that this situation can be saddening and difficult.

When I was discharged from hospital after my PFB's birth it was 22:30, he was three days old and at the time we believed he was breast feeding but my milk had not yet come in - in the interim I was cup feeding formula whilst trying to get him to breastfeed. I was completely unprepared for bottle feeding as I was so set on exclusive BF'ing.

When I asked the midwife's advice on what I would need so that my husband could get to a late night pharmacy before we left the hospital she told me she couldn't tell me that. When I asked if pharmacies would sell the little feeding cups we were using she said she had no idea. When I asked if I could take one of the feeding cups from the hospital (or buy one) I was told no. That was the support I had for formula feeding

But I did get an A4 sheet with a list of breastfeeding resources and support groups.

Elkiedee - thanks for your empathy, whenever my PFB is snuggling into me and sucking my shirt it really gets to me that I then have to give him a plastic teat.

I'm very thankful that we are OK financially so that I didn't have to worry about the money I spent on two different breast pumps, nipple shields, nipple shells, sterilisers, colic reduction bottles etc, etc, etc. Most of it completely unecessary.

Cornish - that is so sad, and describes really, really bad postnatal care

Even at the beginning, when there was a prob with bf, you could have been helped to express.

Of course midwives should know how to advise you on feeding your baby safely and with appropriate formula, and if you wanted/needed a cup, they should know where to get one...or indeed, give you one from their stores.

You can, you know, put your baby to the breast anyway, whether she gets anything out or not! A baby sucking your shirt might quite like that

Thanks TikTok, I was actually disgusted with some of the midwives in the hospital - there was a lot of rough handling and head ramming of my poor little one. I wanted to let him make his own way to the breast (as per the workshop I went to) but he was rammed into my breast and told he was naughty whilst he was screaming. Not the best introduction for him.

The only concern I have with putting him to the breast now is that it would start my milk production again, he was getting very upset at being able to smell my milk without being able to get at it. Although now he's older and not actually hungry it might not worry him so much.

Cornish.

You can always write and explain how unhelpful they were, even now. at the head ramming.

All I can say about the putting to the breast thing is try it and see If it is something that upsets him, obviously you'll stop...but you might both like it!

And at desc. the baby as 'naughty'.

Sheesh.

I think that a breastfeeding support group really has to focus on breastfeeding mums. Its nice having a space where I can moan about thrush. Its nice that we can celebrate sucess when things do go well.

I think the needs of those traumatised by breastfeeding failure are different and need to be catered for in a different setting. Its not about ghettoising people its about meeting completely different needs.

I'm sorry Riven, it sounds like your local services generally are a bit rubbish compared to those in my area.

Cornish how awful for you. I had the man handling from midwives too, DD was forced onto my breast, which made her totally refuse by clamping her mouth shut after the first attempt which was 3 hours after she was born. Then one midwive the evening after she was born (born at 7am)tried to get her to take the breast while she was screaming, the midwive said we might as well try while her mouth is open . I was gutted and in tears myself, on my own on the ward I remember it horribly which makes me sad as that was my first night with DD. I then had the midwives on the ward calling my little girl lazy because she wouldn't latch on, they called her 'lazy baby' in a jolly sort of way like it was funny. When I got home I perservered, with phone support from a very kind NCT counsellor and eventually on day 8 she did latch on and started to suck, this was after I had just clamly given her the chance and not forced her to feed. I was cup feeding her expressed milk in the mean time, in my case the hospital did actually send me home with a stash of the little cups and a double pump (so I can't grumble there at all). I tell you something I'm going to be so much more prepared and enpowered next time (hopefully ).

Reallytired I whole heartedly disagree with you. Why do you think that mothers who are struggling to come to terms with the 'loss' of not breast feeding should have a seperate group to go to? All issues around feeding your newborn baby are so emotive and need supoport I don't see why we can't all club together and offer support in a generic way - feeding support - to suggest that women who have been unsuccessful with long term breast feeding wouldn't understand about breast feeding issues is stupid IMO. As many women who have not continued to exclusively bf have experienced all the issues which can hamper breast feeding - sore nipples, thrush, mastitis, refusal, to name just a few. I know I had to deal with all the above in the 8 weeks I did manage to exclusively breast feed. The argument about meeting different needs does not stand up as all women are individual and all have individual needs/problems which they bring to the group whether they bottle feed or breast feed. I think your cutting your nose off despite your face to only want to be supported by other breast feeding women.

tbf it would wind me up to listen to people successfully breast feeding venting about it.

I can also see that they probably need space to be able to do this though.

"tbf it would wind me up to listen to people successfully breast feeding venting about it. "

I am not surprised and fully understand.

At the moment I think I am either coming down with mastitis or swine flu. I got a huge red lump on my breast and feel bl**dy terrible. It would wind me up if someone suggested formula.

I have been lucky to be able to breastfeed. However today I feel like death warmed up.

Its a bit like it would be upsetting for someone unable to have children to hear me moaning about failure to bf. And even writing that makes me feel because I am so lucky to have my beautiful daughter.

However 'lucky' you are in life though, everyone still has problems.

Hope you are feeling better today reallytired

Dotty38 - sounds like we had similar experiences, I also had the "he's screaming anyway" line - yes, probably because you've virtually just picked him up by his head get you hands of my PFB you sow!!!

Personally, I'd prefer a feeding support group open to all new mum's. Listening to BF'ing mums having a whine would probably help me realise it's not the world of wonder I feel I've been excluded from!

Our local breastfeeding cafe is open to all mums and pregnant women. Strangely I have never seen a bottlefeeding mum there.

Yet this thread shows there are plenty of women out there who could benefit from help to make them confident about their feeding method.

Years ago I went to a postnatal depression support group where many of the women had postnatal depession caused by an inablity to breastfeed. It is terrible that they could not have got support before developing full blown postnatal depression.