Weight loss and rancid green nappies in 20 week old

[frekkles]

help help ladies, give me some sense of perspective, i've got myself in a tizz, i'm all confused and I don't know what to think any more.

my 20 week ds has lost weight this month, dropped from 25 centile to the 9th. He's also had green stinky watery frothy nappies for the last week. He's not feeding very well, just nibbling and not doing those long sucks, then fussing alot or falling asleep within minutes.

I've taken him to the doctors and they've taken a sample to see if he has a tummy bug. I'll find out next thursday.

I phoned up the LLL today for advice, and the lady on the phone asked about how often he fed. When I told her that for the last few weeks he was feeding only once over night she said I should be feeding him atleast every three hours if not more, and ideally sleep with him. I could cry after spending the last three weeks trying to encourage him to stop feeding all night! feel like i've made him ill be being selfish and needing to sleep. He's fed on demand throughout the day and feed generally every 1 1/2 halfs to 2 hours.

So I'm really worried about it now, feel like he isn't getting enough milk. Maybe my milk supply has decreased because of him sleeping? and maybe he's not getting enough milk so is having green nappies through hunger?

I also went back to work for a day and a half last week, leaving him for 3 hours at a time without a feed and leaving him ebm. The LLL lady said that would also decrease my supply. Then she asked if he used a pacifier, and when I told her that he'd recently enthusiastically discovered his thumb she said that if he was thumbsucking it was a sign he needed to nurse more, and that when i saw him thumbsucking I should feed him

I feel terrible now for enjoying getting a bit more sleep and going back to work. I was even excited that he'd found his thumb, and he's been crying less. But I feel like a bad mother now, because he's losing weight and having these nasty green nappies.

I've spent the last two days in bed having skin to skin with him feeding him every hour in an attempt to up my milk supply if it is waning and give him more milk and comfort him if he's ill. His nappies are still rancid and he's still feeding not very well.

I'm worried as I'm due to be working 2 and a half days this week, and so far have only managed to express enough milk for a day of it so was going to supplement the ebm with aptimal for the first time. but now feel that this isn't a good idea?? and should i be waking him to feed him again over night?

or should i just stop worrying. on the plus side he is still active and smiley and alert. so confused. what to do?

ooh, great news frekkles!

Hey folks. The saga continues. The wee boy has lost weight again this week. He's now what he was 6 weeks ago. He's not grown in height either for a month. The hv, to her credit has told me not to panic, as he looks and acts healthy. She wants to weigh him again next week, and if he's lost again then we'll need to start doing something about it.

I also gave him 1 oz of formula again yesterday and he immediately threw it uP and then had a red face and eyes for the rest of the day. Mentioned it to my dp and he said the same happened after he had the formula last Saturday whenni was at work. I remember the red face now, but at the time had just thought it was toothy drool rash and tired eyes. So maybe there's something to investigate in the idea of cow's milk protein allergy. Would that cause this weight loss?

I keep wanting to think that I'm worrying about nothing but I don 't think I am. Six weeks of no growth is not good is it?

Hi Frekkles, bumping for you too.

Someone on our post-natal thread (mrsg maybe? will check) posted recently about how she'd been to a meeting of mums who'd all given birth around the same time and not a single baby was following the graphs re growth. At least one had put on no weight at all. You might ask her how that mother was reacting and what the advice was?
If your baby did have an upset tummy that could have affected weight gain, but the redness does sound like a reaction to the formula.

I cut out dairy fairly soon after DS2 was born, and it helped his digestion. I felt indescribably better for it, too. Might be worth trying. Doesn't help much with the formula problem, I know.

Agree that length is hit and miss with babies this age.

(PS: BB is looking for someone in the North/Scotland to do some media test thingy: you or one of your mates might be interested. Have a peek on the post-natal thread if you can wade through the posts, as Nutty is back with a vengeance!)

COws milk allergy - can cause weight loss, vomiting, green poo. Can you exclude cows milk from your diet and see. I have done htis recently it is not as difficult as it may seem.

thank you everybody for the support and ideas. The little boy is now throwing up after every feed ( he's previously not been a sicky baby atall) and has permanent red eyes, cheek and is pale faced with dark circles. Still happy and smily and energetic, but not well looking atall. Does this sound familiar still. Nappies still green too, but less liquidy and less frequent. They smell like mouldy yoghurt to me.

Still feeding every two hours. Apart from yestarday when I was at work. Nearly killed myself expressing two feeds this week for him and my Dp knocked one of them over and took the other one out in the car without any cool bag so it went off. So he went 5 hours with no feed

So I'm going to cut out all dairy, and am off the the breastfeeding clinic at the hospital on tuesday. I'm veggie and eat alot of soya ( tofu, soya milk on cereal). Should I cut this out too do you think?

The dark circles are definitely an allergy symptom, ime. You'll have to look at your dietary needs too if you're going to give up dairy and possibly soy too.

Felt I had to share! My experience of green poo is that it doesn't necessarily mean anything at all - although with weightloss think you've done right thing to get it checked. Bfeeding twins, and one had green poo for about 2-3 weeks, the other didn't, which makes me think nothing I was doing right or wrong otherwise both would have had it (my own little science experiment!); I still wonder if it's because he had antibiotics in first 48 hours of life outside the womb.

You can feed your baby as much or as little as you want during the day - if he needs to feed more than 3-4 hours, then that's not a problem. Mine feed anything from 2-5 hourly. At night I guess wake him if you want to, but if you're happy he's well without a nightfeed then carry on. I too hallucinated in the first week as feeding twins meant very little sleep at first, so I know what that feels like!

Don't forget all babies are different, ergo all babies' appetites are different. I would throw away the irrelevant centile chart and revert to mother's instinct!

www.theshockofthetwo.blogspot.com

Hi

I am really impressed with all ur efforts to keep breastfeeding.. i had the same problems when my son was 2 months and despite all my efforts my milk was not enough.. i have started supplementing with formula and he gain wait immediatelly.. it took a month to go back on track but he is a happy healthy chap now with yellow poo!! eats every 4 hrs and sleeps like an angel most of the time..

breastfeeding is not for everybody im afraid and you should not feel guilty if ur milk is not enough for him..

goodluck

thanks everyone. i'm just back from the doctors and feeling exhausted and teary. ds is asleep is the wrap on my chest and i'm so tired as the wee boy had me up 6 times last night. This motherhood lark is sure hard work. Feel like I'm trying to figure out a big puzzle just now. Was at the breastfeeding clinic yesterday and they said a few things

1. That it's common for women who had pp haemmorages to have to wait a week or so for their milk to come in (which i did) and that apparently knocks on to effect beastfeeding in months 4,5 and 6 when demand increases and your boobs don't keep up.

2. My periods returning early and my PCOS may also be effecting supply.

3. They also think I'm anaemic

4. They didn't say much to the milk protein allergy theory, although said not to give him formula again due to the reaction. They want to try and fix my milk supply before going down that train of thought.

So they've prescribed me domperidone, 30mg a day and reccommended a month's course of floradix (liquid iron supplement). I've to go back next week.

They suggested not to cut out dairy until I see what effect the domperidone has. But to be honest I've been doing it for 4 days now and the wee boy's rash has cleared up after feeding and he's no longer throwing up, so I'll carry on I think. I'll maybe reintroduce it in November and see what effect it has on him then. It'll be weaning time November anyways so I'll need to face it then too

Frekkles - well done for seeking out the help. It can be so stressful can't it. If you find it easy I would keep off the dairy as you plan. Good luck.

Good luck frekkles - have a bit of orange juice or similar with the Floradix - vitamin C aids iron absorption. Avoid tea when you take it as that will hinder.
HoOoOchieMommaargh - did you avoid all dairy or just cows milk in particular? I'm wondering if goats milk would be OK for instance.

I wonder if there's such a thing as sacred cows' milk in the culture -- cow milk allergy or intolerance does seem to be a hard one for a lot of medical professionals to wrap their brains around. FWIW, family members of mine were put on goat milk formula when cows' milk-based produced dramatic allergy symptoms, and they did ok (back in the 70s). You could experiment.

It is badly taught about I think in general. Lactose intolerance gets a lot more attention.
I think that's weird that we drink Cows milk anyway. Always hated it. My aunt who is Japanese followed a Japanese diet which is naturally very diary-light and always commented that Western people smelt like milk.
I also was diary free for about 10 weeks - I felt better on it .

hey, thought i'd update you.

So i'm taking the tabs, not had much effect yet that I can ascertain. I'm not eating very much dairy, only milk in tea. I'll cut that out next week. And I'm still feeding every 2 hours, and every four at night.

had the little boy weighed yesterday, and he put on 40 g. Not alot, but not lost any. Really I suspect he's stayed the same. 40 g is the difference really between a full bladder or not. If he stays the same for the next 3 weeks he'll fall completely off the centile charts and if this happens then my hv is suggesting supplementing with nutramigen. does anyone have any experience of this?

Other news is that he had his first solids in the last couple of days. Nicked the spoon out of my porridge and stuck it in his mouth the other day, and grabbed my banana for a good gnaw yesterday. So today I made him a bowl of millet porridge with ebm and cut up some banana, and he gleefully smeared it all over himself, mashed it all together and sucked his hands clean. So I think he may want some solids too. He's 23 weeks now so near as dammit. He obviously hasn't read the guidelines and doesn't know he's early!

fingers crossed all this will help him. i'm so worried really. wish i wasn't, but my instinct has been to act.

Just my tuppence worth as I've been following this but without any useful advice to add..

My dd didn't gain any weight from about 8 weeks to 18 and went from 75th to 9th percentile as a result. she was fine apart from that though, no odd poos or vomiting or anything, so not really the same as your ds. I was on domperidone too, found it didn't work until was taking 8 a day - 30mg is a starter dose and rarely does anything from what I've read, I would push them to up your dose forthwith.

Anyway once we got to solids (at 5 months) she suddenly starting piling it on and is now back up to 75th, so yes, I would second going with your (and his!) instincts. It is not really logical that solids would equate to weight gain as in theory less milk, but it seemed to work for us.