Oh God, he's not gained AGAIN. <<tears hair out>>

[suwoo]

DS2 is 6 weeks tomorrow. Lost 20 oz at birth. He is now 10 oz less than his birth weight. Last week he put 50g on and I was giving him the odd top up (was supposed to be doing 3 a day, but wasn't )

Today he has gained 2g with no top ups. I'm going to have to top him up again aren't I? I so don't want to, I really really just want to bf him. I can't pump as I just can't fit it in with the other two kids, so it will have to be formula . I am feeding him 2 hourly and he is really alert, lots of wees and poos etc.

Suwoo, I read your previous thread but didn't comment as thought you had had enough advice, but I feel too strongly to stay silent now. Tiktok I think is getting at this, but is too balanced and professional to lay it on the line. Although that may be an assumption.

Your baby is not gaining weight. He should be. This means he is not getting enough calories. This means you have to get more into him. Since you've done so much to try to do this by breast feeding directly, you now have to try something else, which means supplementing either with EBM or with formula, via an SNS, cup feeding or bottle. Your choice, but you must do it as he is now, as you describe, looking like a skinned rabbit. This I'm sure you are aware is not what babies look like, even those who will turn out to be naturally skinny children.

It is more important that he starts growing than that you persevere with from-the-breast feeding right now. Later on, as others have described, you may be able to get him back on the breast.

Could you do one big express in the evenings when all your dc are in bed or asleep? power pumping can help boost supply - do 10 mins pump, 10 mins off etc for as long as you can stand. If he's going for a long break at night then wake up and pump while he's sleeping, then you won't feel so bad about giving some formula.

I know this is really hard, I experienced it with my dd. I felt awful about her stalling growth, and awful about having to top her up, sometimes with formula, but it is what it is. She too seemed to feed well, sleep well, pee and poo etc. But she wasn't gaining and that was a problem.

Sorry to be so blunt but I really couldn't bear it any more!

I hope things get easier.

oh, and you say you are on fenugreek, have you tried domperidone? It's the only aid which gets me close to a full supply.

Suwoo, no real advice but feeling for you - I had to really fight to bf ds2 and to return to feeding exclusively from top ups. He gained weight very slowly when we went back to exclusive but he did gain.

Do you always bf him yourself before giving top ups? It does make it harder work but it for me I think it helped preserve the breastfeeding and counter any problems with keeping the supply and demand effect going. Can DH do some or all of the top up feeds? I got dp to do them, mixing powder feeds according to instructions at the beginning of a breastfeed and then they would be cool enough to give after 20/30 minutes. We also bought some ready mixed cartons for use in the middle of the night. I think DS2 had a midnight feed before I went to sleep proply myself and then woke for a night feed though it would be more like 4 hours than 3 sometimes. I used the necessary evil of top ups to give myself a bit of a break. dp knew how much this mattered and how distressed I'd been first time round. I cut down from 6 top ups when we got back from hospital to 3 in 24 hours - one was when dp got back from work, one late evening and one in the middle of the night, and I always tried very hard to give him a breastfeed for as long as he'd carry on eating for.

Agree with Thalia - you need to get more milk into him by any means you can - so much below birth weight at 6 weeks is not good. Once he is a proper weight again, you can start reducing supplementation, but is very likely your supply may have been affected by your surgery. There is a good book that can help you figure out how much milk you need to be supplementing, "Making More Milk" by Diane West, you can find it on Amazon. Hang in there and hope all goes well.

suwoo i have been thinking about you. hope you are ok. hold on to your determination to feed - it is what got me though some utterly horrible times.

i had very bad nipple trauma so that coupled with not an abundant supply meant it was really hard to get enough milk into ds. in my case i took domperidone and he grew a little bit and got better at feeding. hopefully for you just some extra milk (whatever sort) will get you both past this stage and back on track.

do try domperidone, i got it online.

Quick post with thanks to everyone. Will sort donperidone today.

x

suwoo domperidone will make you do big poos! it is its day job iykwim.

Suwoo, nothing really to add but wanted to say that you are doing so well, take the advice of the lovely posters "in the know".
It is great that you are managing to BF and are so determined to get it right, I remember your thread before yur DS was born about BF and your feelings.
YOu will sort this out, I promise you

Suwoo, I feel your pain. Hang in there. There's no shame in topping off, and don't worry about pouring extra ff down the drain. I started off with topping off using 2 oz bottles and DD eventually got up to 4 ozs on occasion. I moved up to the 4 oz amount when she took 2 ozs at every feed for a day. The first 4 oz bottle I tried was at the late afternoon feed. Ended up pouring a lot down the drain because she hardly ever wanted that much. I just went by what DD seemed to need. However, I was ordered (very stern old fashioned paed ) to wake her every two hours, so set my clock and did this for three groggy weeks. Bfed first (12, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 gaah, can't believe it looking back) then topped up. By the time she was up to 4 ozs she was gaining steadily and I kept up the waking schedule but bfed exclusively.

Should be "set my clock, and did this (setting clock) for three groggy weeks" By the end of three weeks DD was waking spontaneously at two hourly intervals. The whole topping off thing lasted until she was about 9 weeks (from 11% weight loss that was spotted at 10 days). She was my 5th DC, quite a shock to deal with bottles, etc. I also bought the ready made ff for nights, hang the expense.

Suwoo, the bottom line is your lovely baby needs the calories.

Just want to thank everyone again for all your lovely words. Thank you for sharing your experiences with me.

What I love the most is how some of you have 'told me off' but in such a lovely supportive way . I have started the top ups and am dealing with it ok. He is taking the breast, then 3oz of formula, then I am putting him straight back on to the breast, lest he forget it .

He does seem, dare I say it, a bit more content.

This is not the beginning of the end and I will carry on bf.

Good news suwoo

Suwoo - good for you . You can do this. We had problems with weight loss and lack of supply initially, it took weeks for DS to regain his birthweight, and now DS is still BFing at 13 months.

One thing that my BFC at the hospital told me to do, was to make sure that I was either feeding or expressing between midnight and 3am. Prolactin levels are highest at this time so this helps to boost supply. I just wondered if you had maybe been missing out on this 'window' because your DS was sleeping for a 4-5 hour stretch.

Suwoo - think you have done the right thing. I had EXACTLY the same issue as you (altho without the breast reduction!). I ended up topping up after DS had not regained birthweight after 6 or 7 weeks. I HATED doing it, especially as I bf DC1 for 12 mths, but sometimes its necessary. My only regret is, that whilst I tried lots of different things to increase DS's weight before going onto formula top ups, I DIDN'T go to a lactation counsellor and I think I should have. Saying that, DS is now nearly 6 months old, his first feed of the day is 100% bf, and the other 4 feeds are a mixture. He is such a good sleeper and has been since birth, that I think he's just one of those babies who would rather have a good kip than bother with milk! He is now on the 50th centile and doing great! Good luck with you LO.