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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Sicky, sicky baby

33 replies

ames · 15/05/2003 17:46

Havent posted for ages. DS has been born and amazingly is 5wks already (dd is 15mths) Have been bf ds at night and bottlefeeding during the day as I am blessed (or cursed) wth enough milk to feed triplets. Poor ds was choking and reallystruggling to keep up with the flow and was soaking everything witin close proximity. However I cant seem to stop ds bringing back mos of his feed straight the wasy and then more afterwards. He is thooughly miserable after each feed, arches his back and going very rigid, making winding him almost impossible. After being so sick he is hungary again after a short while and the whole cycle starts again. i give him 4-5ozs when bottlefeeding him which i thn is about right although he is sick in the middle of this and he has the 2nd size teat - would the newborn size be better. we tried infacol for a few days but this didnt seem to help. Any advice/ideas. I cant cope with the washing and we're all thoroughly miserable!

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wiltshirelass · 15/05/2003 18:10

Aurgh, just typed a long and considered response when my connection crashed. But will do it again, ames, in case it is of any help!

I don't want to in any way scaremonger, and you may just have a sicky baby that is a pain in the bum (in the sweetest possible way) for a while and then grows out of it, but I think you should keep half a mind on reflux.
A friend of mine had a baby similar to how you describe (but maybe worse) - threw everything up, cried uncontrollably pretty much all the time (except when asleep), and she instinctively felt something wasn't right. She went to HVs, GPs and even a specialist, all of whom told her things were fine, she just had a colicky baby. It wasn't until her son was 17 months old that she went to another specialist who instantly diagnosed a bad case of reflux, put him on the necessary meds and he was unrecognisably improved in a few weeks.
It was one of those cases where you can't understand how everyone missed it, because it was so obvious in hindsight - She, husband and child were completely traumatised by 17 months of this and she was full of guilt (obviously completely misplaced as she had done everything she could) that her son had been in so much pain for so long. My point is that if you feel that your son is in pain after feeding, and not just uncomfortable and cross, then follow your instincts and take it further, and try and find someone who is willing to have a sensible conversation about the possibility of reflux with you.
IME, a baby that just is a mega-possetter doesn't normally exhibit much pain - just chucks up for England and then stares at you expectantly waiting to be filled up again. And they aren't normally windy, as they have just brought up all the air. But go with your instincts, and if after being told everything is fine, if you still feel in your gut that it isn't, go talk to someone else.
Good luck!

LIZS · 15/05/2003 19:22

Definitely ask about reflux - it may be as simple as thickening up the feed and keeping him upright for longer. Otherwise you could try a little fennel tea but this probably won't help if it is reflux and I suspect that all your time is taken up with the feeding cycle at the moment.

hth

meanmum · 15/05/2003 20:04

Sounds like reflux to me and not just colick. GOod luck and as the others said stand your ground. You know it's not quite right by the sound of your post just make sure you don't get fobbed off.

florenceuk · 16/05/2003 11:45

If you think it might be reflux, one of the first things they do is get you to feed him infant Gaviscon - which just thickens up the feed and may help to keep it down. It is pretty harmless and easy enough to do if you are bottlefeeding - your GP can prescribe it or you can buy it over the counter.

ames · 16/05/2003 12:44

Thanks for all replys. DD had reflux without ever being sick but hadn't even considered (probably huge case of total denial actally) DS could have it because for the first 3 weeks he was a angel baby and although he was sick it didnt bother him. This problem has been getting gradually worse and for the last 3 days he has screamed almost non stop and certainly wont be put down although he sleeps fairly well at night. I have still got same baby gaviscon (in date) from DD would it be safe to try it or should I wait until monday when I can get him seen by a doctor. Am feeling thoroughly fed up as DD was such hard work and pretty much screamed from 0-4months and the last few days have been hellish, its even worse because she only 15mnths.

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mears · 16/05/2003 13:17

Ames - why don't you breasfeed during the day - he might be able to digest it better?

florenceuk · 16/05/2003 14:30

I think Gaviscon is pretty harmless so why not? It won't do any harm, and at least you can eliminate it as an option if it doesn't work.

ames · 16/05/2003 16:25

I dont breastfeed during the day cos I've so much milk he struggles to latch on and keep up with the flow. I end up practically drowning him (and i was getting upset when we both ended up in a right mess with him strugling and being sick and me soaking everything) so I started to express the milk and give it to him - i thought it might be easier as he could control the mount and speed intake and take a break when he needed one. Perhaps this is wrong? I'm not sure - just trying anything really. I breastfeed him at night cos there isnt as much milk so its not so much of a problem( and I'm to knackered to et up and warm a bottle) I tink I'll try the gaviscon next feed. must go there both screaming now!

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mears · 16/05/2003 18:54

Ames - your milk flow should start to settle down now. Have you ever tried breastfeeding uphill? You do that by leaning backwards when feeding - that can stem the flow. The other thing you can try is just to express prior to feeding so that you then avoid the baby getting the initial fast let down. Obviously if bottle feeding during the day works for you then fine. Although you can adjust the flow with different teats, babies tend to take in air when bottle feeding which will make wind/ vomiting worse. Just thought you were ending up giving yourself more work.

ames · 16/05/2003 19:56

Will try feeding 'uphill' thanks for the suggestion as the bottles make more work and don't seem to be helping him. I haven't been able to put him down for more than 5 minutes all day without him screaming the place down and now I'm not sure when i should feed him, he's just crying constantly and throwing back up the majority of what he's getting. I feel I'm really neglecting DD and its all just one big vicious circle.

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Pancake · 16/05/2003 20:05

Ames, I really sympathise as I had a very similar situation with my ds now 8 months. He would scream and scream and scream and arch his back and throw up everywhere, all the time. We went back and forth to specialists and reflux was diagnosed. They did prescribe Gavisgon but ds hated it but apparently it's much easier to digest if in milk (but you know that already)! DS has been on dom peridon and mups (two different types of medicine to help reduce sickness and to help reduce acid in his tummy) and we're gradually weaning him off it. Strangely, once I'd stopped breastfeeding at 6 months his sickness did reduce so I think it may have been a case of reflux getting better and also me overfeeding!

My heart does go out to you as the first 12 weeks with ds were absolute hell due to the constant screaming and the whole "when do I feed" scenario. I would definitely consult doctor/specialist though.

Good luck and hope ds gets better very very soon.

mears · 16/05/2003 22:29

Ames - another thing to try is feeding one side at a time. By that I mean feed him on one side, wind him then put him back on the same side. Means he will get more hindmilk and perhaps settle for longer. Will help with the amount of milk you are producing as well. Hang in there, it will get better.

Ghosty · 17/05/2003 00:08

Dear Ames ...
I had a similar experience with my DS when he was tiny and had all the same words said to me 'colic' and 'reflux' ... but my baby's problem was a bit more serious than that ... I don't want to worry you but thought I would tell you our story so that if your baby is still being sick then you might want to investigate it further ...
My baby started being sick after all his feeds when he was 2 weeks old ... he used to scream all the time and be in what seemed to be a lot of pain. I was told by many people that this was normal and most babies are sick. We tried infacol and it didn't help. It got so bad that I would feed him in the bathroom so that I could hold him over the bath to be sick to save my carpets. At 3 weeks the doctor diagnosed reflux and he was prescribed Infant Gaviscon but all that did was make his vomit porridge like ... it was pure hell and I thought I was going mad. It was when I was with my parents for Xmas (he was 4 weeks) that my mum insisted I took him to her GP who sent us to the hospital for checks. I was still told it was reflux and was sent home. We went back to the doctor when DS slept for 18 hours one night and I was seriously worried ... he was so poorly and unhappy. He was eventually weighed at the hospital and they saw that he was below his birth weight. They gave him an ultrasound scan on his tummy and diagnosed Pyloric Stenosis. He was immediately put on a drip and taken to Southampton General Hospital. The next day he had a small op to sort out the problem and about 6 hours afterwards I was allowed to feed him again. He never threw up again (well except for when he had a tummy bug when he was about 12 months old)
I felt that my GP and my HV had brushed me off and put me down as a neurotic mother ... even after the op my GP's words were 'Well, I must say, I am very surprised ...' as if he still didn't believe that my baby had been that poorly. Pyloric Stenosis is a condition that affects about 1 in 4000 babies (usually boys). They are born with it but it doesn't usually manifest itself until they are about 4 - 6 weeks old (my son's started a bit earlier ... another reason why my GP said it wasn't PS). The Pylorus muscle at the base of the stomach thickens and does not let food through to the bowel so when the baby's tummy is full it contracts and the food comes up. My mother who is a nurse said that the reason she suspected PS is because how unhappy DS was after he had been sick ... unlike other babies who are sick and don't seem to care about it ... (Of course reflux babies suffer pain from the acid that comes up their throats ... so they are unhappy too )
Anyway ... sorry about the long post but thought it might be useful to you ...
Is your DS gaining weight?

ames · 17/05/2003 09:04

Thanks for the post Ghosty - I'm bothered about ds so your post hasn't worried me any more. I'm not sure wether ds is ganing weight - he was in the first few weeks (before the sickness really bcame a problem) but I am going to get him weighed at the clinic on Tuesday. As far as I can remember with dd her reflux started when she was a few days old. Ds was fine for a few weeks but has gradually been getting worse over the last 2-3 which is why a didn't automatically think of reflux. I tried 'uphill' feeding last night, he was still struggling and coughing and was sick but did sleep for about half an hour afterwards so I'm going to breastfeed him totally today and just see if it helps.
Mears - I do stick to the same side when feeding him but he comes off coughing and wheezing after a couple of minutes and although he's obviously not had enough he wont feed again for between half and one hour and then the same hing happens again so one feed just merges into another. Its almo impossible to make him wait as he is obviously hungary. Have started to use a dummy (which I hate because I feel I should be doing more for him) but it isnt very succesfull. It helps to know I'm not the only though and sorry these posts are so long. Will take him to the doctors on Monday if there is no impovement (seems a life time away and DH wants to take him today but I don't really feel it is an emergency) Hate seeing him suffer so much and dont really feel tha anything I'm doing is helping at the moment

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Ghosty · 17/05/2003 11:38

Hope you have a better day today Ames ... thinking of you ... let us know how things go ...

mears · 17/05/2003 15:49

Have consulted my La Leche Breastfeeding Answer Book, I thought I would copy out what it says for you Ames.
It refers to babies being sick as 'spitting up'.
It says

"It is not uncommon for babies to spit up regularly after nursing. Even if the baby is spitting up a lot of milk, he is probably doing fine.If the mother is worried, suggest she keep track of the number of wet diapers and bowel movements her baby has in a 24 hour period. If he has six to eight wet cloth diapers (five to six disposable diapers) and at least two bowel movements (fewrwe bowel movements are considered normal if he is older than six weeks), she can feel confident that her baby is getting enough. Weight gain is another reliable indicator. If he is gaining at least four ounces a week, the mother can be sure that he is getting enough to eat even if he spits up a lot.

Tell the mother that a normal, healthy baby usually outgrows his spitting up within four to six months. Until it clears up on it's own, suggest the mother try gentle handlin and keeping the baby upright after feedings. Limiting nursing to one side per feeding may also help, especially if the mother thinks her baby's spitting up is related to getting too much milk at a feeding.
Some babies spit up because they are getting too much milk too quickly. If the baby gulps or chokes after the mother's let-down occurs, suggest she try taking him off the breast for a minute or two and catching the milk in a towel or diaper, putting the baby back on once the initial flow of milk has passed."

The book does go on to suggest that babies who regularly spit up after feeds should be seen by the doctor to rule out pyloric stenosis, the symptoms of which usually begin when the baby is between two and six weeks of age.

Hopefully something there might help. If feeding uphill doesn't make a difference, you could just try postioning him in such a way so that he is more upright. Have you tried the rugby ball hold, with him back to front. You might find that an easier way of getting him more upright.

ames · 19/05/2003 21:53

Had a brilliant day with ds on saturday. He was perfect angel! Could you send me more positive karma Ghosty!
Thanks for the post Mears. Very interesting. Have been letting milk spray onto towel-hadn't done so before cos i was worried about wasting it - silly really. I was also interested in what it said about 'bowel movements' as up until about 4 weeks ds was going almost every feed. At 4 weeks he didnt go for nearly 3 days although he was obviously straining. I rang the hv but she said this was normal. When he finally poo he really did poo! and since then had been going once a day. On Saturday morning he went twice (once with each feed) but hasn't been since. Tongight he is screaming whenever put down, generally restless and feeding frequently and being very sick. I wonder if his problem is more 'bowel' related. Anyway off to the clinic tomorrow to get him weighed and ask her opinion. Meanwhile any advice still gratefully received.

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mears · 19/05/2003 22:13

Let us know how you get on tomorrow. Hope things get better soon.

sobernow · 19/05/2003 23:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ames · 20/05/2003 21:16

Here's the update for anyone interested! HV said not to worry about no bowel movements unless it he goes for about 6 days. 3 days and no sign yet - cant beleive I'm eagerly awaiting a pooey nappy! DS demonstrated beautifully how unsettled he is and the sickness! She did agree it seemed to be reflux and advised to see the doc. However he has gained 13ozs in 10 days so he oviously isnt going without and I think that rules out pyloric stenosis (could someone confirm?) Am beginning to think its just me overfeeding him. Am I taking demand feeding to the extreme? Any advice, as I would like to make sure its not a case of overfeeding before as I'm sure the doc would just prescribe gaviscon and I want to be sure its necessesary

OP posts:
sobernow · 20/05/2003 21:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mears · 21/05/2003 00:23

Ames - what did HV say about pyloric stenosis and weight gain? He certainly seems to be retaining enough milk. One thing about the vomiting with pyloric stenosis is that it tends to be projectile ie. it travels a fair distance and land a few feet in front of you or even goes across the room in some instances. It is more than a burp with lots of milk coming up. Does sound more like reflux which isn't necessaily due to overfeeding. You certainly could try spacing his feeds to at least 3 hourly. Is there someone handy who can take him out for long walks for you? Are you nanging to keep him upright after feeds for a while such as in a baby chair or buggy? Really hope things get better for you soon.

Ghosty · 21/05/2003 04:16

Hi Ames ... I am glad to see that your DS is gaining weight. If I remember rightly Pyloric Stenosis ends up with them losing weight as they are getting no food at all (which is what happened to my DS) So happily, PS seems to be ruled out. As Mears said the vomit with PS does become projectile ... DS used to be able to throw up a good 3 or 4 feet in distance!!!!!!
My nephew had reflux and that caused him much pain. My SIL had to give him gaviscon before every feed until he could pretty much sit up unaided ... about 7 months ... by that time gravity helped to keep the milk down. Gaviscon helped because it solidifies the milk in the baby's tummy and so it is harder for it to come up again....
Hope it all gets better soon!

Pancake · 22/05/2003 08:28

Hi Ames! Just a quick post to say that I definitely think I overfed ds (who has reflux). Although I was bf he never "came off" so would feed for about 50-60 mins at a time until I took him off ... he would then vomit for Britain. We are gradually cutting back on ds medicine for reflux but I must say that the two we are using have definitely worked ... dom peridone and omeprazole (mups). May be worth asking HV for her thoughts. We definitely pursued it though and saw specialists at John Radcliffe and then got referred on to Stoke Mandeville.
Sorry this is a bit rambling but I'm jet lagged!

Ghosty · 22/05/2003 08:59

I think someone has already asked this somewhere else but isn't dom peridone an expensive champagne????