Any Gina Ford breastfeeding mums?

[lastboxoftampons]

If so, when did you introduce the bottle feed? is it from one week? Did you have any nipple confusion problems?

Lastbox - I found the schedules vaguely what my dc wanted to do anyway in terms of sleeping and vaguely feeding (one more than the other) but never bothered with all that bottle/expressing stuff.

And be aware that if you do follow it and are bf then it will all go out the window in times of growth spurts and cluster feeding evenings.

I didn't, but have 2 friends who both followed GF, both gave up breastfeeding by 2 months.

Didn't fit into the "routine".

I think one of the issues with GF is she doesn't suggest expressing (3 x a day up until 6 weeks, when it becomes 2 x day) - she regards it as essential to success...mothers should be doing it at particular times (6.45 am, 9.45 am and 10 pm). This starts at 2 weeks.

For a lot of women, it's exhaustingly prescriptive and clearly wrong, if we take her literally that it is essential.

The rest of her information about bf is decidedly dodgy, but I know some people think she's great. I am a bit at people who modify GF, or do bits of it...or do it 'to a lesser degree' and still think it's wonderful. 'Cos if they have to change it to adapt to their own babies' needs, how wonderful can it be?

I think (franklymydear baby guru that is) that having your first baby is a huge shock and that you need the first few weeks to get to grips with it all so if you try to follow someone else's plan for your child you lose the inate ability to listen to your own body and develop your own sense of motherhood.

For some a particular routine will work because it suits the particular baby. for others it can drive you mad trying to instill it and make you feel like a failure.

Listen to yourself. Take advice and store it and process it for yourself. If you don't know what to do pick up your baby and offer it a breast, check it's nappy or put it down. You can't go wrong in the first few weeks with that approach.

I think you should take it easy on yourself for those first few weeks and I think the easiest thing you can do is feed your baby when it demands it - routines can wait till later and many babies evolve their own, introducing a bottle can wait till later too certainly for the first month (seriously the whole sterilising malarky is onerous and if you can avoid till you feel more human then it makes it easier)

lastbox, we do realise there are several ways of parenting Many of us have read GF. Some of us have tried this method.

It's because GF - if you take her literally - doesn't accept there are several ways that she is criticised.

You sound open, flexible and willing to listen to your baby, and that is a good 'method'

Lastbox you've probably already come across it but another book I found very useful as a first time mum was 'Secrets of the Babywhisperer'. Not so much from a routine perspective but some of the settling techniques and general how to learn to read your baby stuff.

We never set out to follow a routine as such, but like you did lots of reading pre-birth. All I can say is I think it's good to be open-minded and not get too stuck on following one parenting regime down to the letter but to find a way that suits you and your baby. For us, GF ended up making a lot of sense but in the very early weeks we just sort of made it up as we went along!

Meanwhile you'll find excellent info and advice on mumsnet on exclusively BFing, cosleeping, babywearing, baby-led weaning etc. I haven't found it so good on anything routine-ish...

Good luck with everything.

LBT I did GF very loosely and BF till over 6 months. I found the EBM late feed a godsend as I whipped off to bed and let DH sort out last feed. Those few extra hours to sort yourself can be a real respite.
Just a word about GF I think many people have had trouble with her routines because they can be sooo perscriptive. Just make sure it's working for you not the other way around!

TheCrackFox - oh, yes, I had forgotten about that Thanks for the reminder

Alibaba - Yes, I've been on Kellymom as well, thank you. Initially it's more often than not 3 hourly feeds, and I think I would expect to pump during the feed that we'd give a bottle - in order to maintain/establish supply as well as build up a supply of EBM. I know week 1 sounds really early to introduce a bottle and potentially compromise establishing supply, that's partly why I've asked this question.

Frankly - thank you that's really sweet of you. After reading GF, I was actually pretty surprised that (IMO) she sounded fairly open-minded, ie not SO crazy rigid & strict

Reality - it's not necessarily about time, it's also about knowing my baby will in theory take a bottle if for some reason I can't be there to feed him, and also giving my husband the opportunity to feed as well.

Lastbox - you will find yourself feeding far, far more often than 3 hourly in the first few weeks.
Your dh can do lots to help apart from feeding e.g bathing, nappy changing, carrying etc.

One of the bonuses of breastfeeding is that you don't have to sterilise etc.

Giving a bottle will not help build up/maintain supply. THere is nothing as efficient as the baby feeding to stimulate supply and maintain it. WHen giving a bottle you are thus missing a feed which would also have stimulated more milk supply.

Hiya LBOT.
I have 4, as you know, and have found that GF only 'works' for me after about 6 weeks.
I find that my milk and baby are nicely synched at this point. I have a good idea about what s/he wants and and the after-shock of having finally given birth haze has lifted somewhat.
By 6 weeks I find my milk supply is high enough to start expressing (so I can leave the baby and return to the world without s/he starving) and I do so whenever s/he doesn't take the other side. I don't do this at set times.

It has taken until Dd2 is 5.5 mo before she has settled into a routine and is now sleeping through. GF just didn't cut it in the earlier weeks, she slept too little and fed too often, but I'm okay with that because it's what she needed.

GF is very restrictive it should be said and is virtually impossible if there are siblings. I know someone else using it on the Wagon was extremely frustrated with it and her lack of freedom to go out and lunch with people.

In all honesty I would wait and see what baby is like, not long now though eh?

Its a shame that we cant talk about routines at all on MN because its so taboo and frowned upon. I'm not even talking about GF but in general.

I think if you know what you're doing with the bf - I mean when to not stick to the routine because the baby obv needs more, then they can be actually very helpful in terms of the baby sleeping and eating - sometimes more helpful than feeding every hour because you dont know whats wrong - I found my dcs cried because they were tired a lot more than I expected and yes if I had bf them then they would have fallen asleep straightaway but it would have been incidental iyswim.

I dont think I'm actually putting this very well but I do think theres a third parenting way which is actually commonsense once your supply is established - neither sticking to a rigid routine nor bfing them every time they cry.

Just to add quickly that in the early days you won't be feeding every 3 hours. It'll be most likely when the baby cries to be fed and can be up to an hour at a time.
The early days are intense and it's understandable that women give up because it is all-consuming and sometimes a bit overwhelming, but stick with it and it does settle down.
For me, as I say, the first 6 weeks are the toughest, after that it's a breeze.

Never had any nipple confusion with 4 children, all had bottles or dummies introduced at different points.

Good luck!

Oh and lastbox - I always 'collect' the milk from the other side I am feeding on in a breast shell and add it to bottle in the fridge during the day - it can be then either frozen or fed in the evening.

I dont agree that your dh needs to do any feeding either - theres plenty as hercules says that they can be getting on with apart from that.

katestacks - that is exactly it, but as a first time Mum it's really hard to know!
I have always totally demand-fed DS, but he's my first and I've had the time. When it comes to number 2 I will HAVE to be a bit more structured if DS' life isn't going to be thrown into total chaos.

But - I will know what I'm doing. When a growth spurt comes I will recognise it for what it is and go with it. I think if it's your first time then when the routine seems to be slipping panic ensues and you try to enforce it harder - which will in all likelihood bring an end to BFing.

Finally (I promise), never limit the time the baby feeds from a breast (as GF suggests), it seriously interferes with the balance of the milk.
Let the baby feed until they come off so you can be sure they've got the hindmilk.

Best bit of advice I got that

Lastbox, I won't comment on the GF debate because it's all up to you, but I started expressing and giving ds a bottle at 4 weeks as I was worried about his latch and slow feeding. What I think I did by giving him ebm was actually exacerbate the problem. I struggled with feeding for ages really, we never really got going and though I managed to last a year, ds was mix fed from earlier than I would have preferred.

I would say think twice about routinely giving a bottle of ebm. A once a week treat perhaps to give you a bit of time off etc but if you're serious about bfing, I'd not do more than that.

Yes I'd second that in the early weeks feeding was pretty much all the time! Settled down very quickly though.

As others say there is plenty else DH can do, but I found my DH really really loved feeding her as it was nurturing in a way that washing, dressing, changing etc wasn't so much.

From about 4 weeks I expressed once every other day or so, and from 6 weeks to about 12 weeks was expressing every day. Back to every other day now. Seemed to be enough to get accustomed to the pump, have a bank of ebm etc. Not sure whether it benefitted or hindered my supply but DD happy and still BFing at nearly 7 months but will now think about introducing formula for her afternoon feed now I'm starting to do bits and pieces of work and I have less time.

Just to be annoying I just wanted to point out that introducing a regular bottle early on does not gaurantee your baby will not suddenly refuse it at about 4 months old - it does happen, there are fairly regular mn threads about it. Sorry!

I think definitely best to read everything and see what works when LO arrives. Also what I found helpful for bf preparation was to read a lot of threads on mn and other forums where people were having problems, and the advice given to them.

Rather than getting the 'time off' to rest or whatever by letting dad give this one bottle a day, I would suggest exclusive BF and get him to do other stuff instead like washing/shopping/housework, so mum can give 24 hrs a day to baby with no other tasks whatsoever..

Anyone agree?

I totally agree... what made bfing hard for me (apart from cocking it up myself) was trying to find time to do all the other stuff as well... if someone else had done it all I would have had a much better chance I think!

Lovesdogs - yes I agree totally. I had problems with BF to start with and so we had to express and cup/bottle feed for almost a week. When I think of the hours we spent faffing around with it all - there is no way on earth that I would choose to introduce a bottle until about 8 weeks another time.

In theory yes dogsandcats I would have agreed with you pre-dd, and for many people I know that works brilliantly, but for some it's equally restful (and sometimes much needed) to get off the constant treadmill of feeds for a few hours and just enjoy some me-time getting your highlights done or whatever, safe in the knowledge that LO is at home with someone else and a full feed is available from a bottle.

After the first month or two, I would have gone mad if I hadn't been able to leave the house without DD once in a while to go to the gym, hairdresser or shops etc without panicking about rushing back, getting stuck on the tube or in traffic and having a starving baby at home, doesn't bear thinking about!

I haven't read the whole thread but I thought I'd add my (limited) experience of expressing.

I found it gave me less freedom, less time to myself and less sleep.

It took me two attempts a day to get enough milk for one bottle at around 2-3 months.

I ended up being the one to faff with cleaning bottles, pump etc while dh played with dd/she slept.

The plan was that DD and I would go to bed and DH would give her a bottle of ebm when she first woke. I had to listen to dh saying "oh you should see this. She's so cute. This is lovely" while he fed dd. Marvellous. No extra sleep. She finished the bottle in no time and was still hungry so I had to get up and feed her anyway.

No way was I sitting in the house for 3 feeds to collect even more milk. So I've just done it myself since.

It also messed with my supply, I'd be engorged the following day.

We now co-sleep and dd just rolls my way when she wants milk/comfort. Much less hassle in our lazy house.

"The plan was that DD and I would go to bed and DH would give her a bottle of ebm when she first woke. I had to listen to dh saying "oh you should see this. She's so cute. This is lovely" while he fed dd. Marvellous. No extra sleep. She finished the bottle in no time and was still hungry so I had to get up and feed her anyway."

God, yes, the myth that someone else doing a feed is helpful.

It took me hours to express a thimbleful.