Am I giving him enough milk?

[Hughsie]

I'm going around in circles with b/fing and seriously considering swapping to bottles. ds2 is quite large at 10 weeks - about 12lbs + and is feeding frequently - when awake he seems to want to feed constantly. In the night it is every three hours and dh gives one feed as a bottle so I can go to bed. I've been told by mw/hv and well meaning friends that I shouldn't feed much longer than 10 minutes a side as the baby should have had a full feed by this time - is this right? I was leaving him on about 30 mins to make sure he got hind milk - he would usually fall asleep on me. I did this with ds1 but is is not as easy to do due to a two year old running around demanding attention as well. I feel that at least with a bottle I would know that he was full as I would see how much he has whereas I'm always doubting it with a b/f.

Tried cranial osteopath for colic which seems to have worked but she said if he does not sleep through by 12 weeks she may try again as he should be - is this realistic? ds1 was sleeping 7 hours at 7 weeks so I think I expected this one too as well.

Am going mad and looking for a magic solution which I know doesn't exist! Please help me......

You are right Hughsie - a magic solution does not exist but that isn't helpful is it?
The 10 minute a side is not true - you are right about the hind milk - but there are times where it will suit you to make feeds 10mins a side so that you can get on with other things. You could, however, try feeding from one side at a time.ie feed one side till he comes off (or 10 mins depending how it goes) - wind him, then put him back on that side. The theory is he will get more hindmilk and last longer. My friend did that very successfully and her ds weighed 12lb 2oz at birth. She found that by doing that he was less colicky than her previous ds.
Having B/F with 3 toddlers running around, I know how harrassed you can feel. My 4th baby just got fed when I had time to do it some days. Other days, when I had nothing better to do, she fed for hours.

Remember that although with a bottle, you can see how much a baby has had, that doesn't necessarily mean they have had enough. It means they have had as much as you think they need - sometimes it can be too much.
You can dictate some of the pace with your breastfeeding. You ceratinly can try the 10 min thing - sometimes it will work, sometimes it will not and it would be good if you were prepared to stick him back on.
Look out for the type of sucking he is doing - if it is vigorous and you can hear the milk being swallowed then he is feeding. When he is just lying "butterfly sucking", that way the jaw is just flickering on and off, then he has probably had a good volume of milk. (He will be getting milk, but this type of sucking is also stimulating further milk production). You can interrupt it though, knowing he has had enough to be going on with. Popping him in the pram and giving him a rock may pop him off to sleep.
You do have milk, but you have other demands which are making you doubt yourself. It sounds as though you need to dictate the feeds a bit more - it does not need to be totally baby led. You definately will not get a magic solution in a bottle - you may get another set of problems!
Stick in there, it will get easier, honest

Thanks Mears - I feel that you really do prop all us breastfeeders up. I worry that he will get used to being left on the breast for comfort and that is why he will cry when removed - not because he is hungry.

I do realise that bottle feeding will have it's own problems too and appreciate lying down to feed in the night and having the ability to calm a fretful child as well as a poorly one as I recall from ds1. I think I feel generally stressed and that all the work is on me as the breastfeeder - i.e. no escape and less chance to join in fully with ds1. Also it does get me down having to feed in front of others and puts me off going to see friends especially if ds2 is fretful and I have to resort to a feed unexpectedly. i'm such a worrier and know I need to chill out about it - oh for a crystal ball.....

Hi Hughsie, I know exactly how you feel, but unlike you, I have caved in and am in the process of weaning ds onto bottles. I breast fed my dd successfully for 4.5 months and assumed that it would be ok this time. It is so difficult isn't it. I'm about half way through changing him over and I feel really guilty and torn about my decision, but I know breast feeding just wasn't working out for me or ds this time and I was feeling low and fed up which is no good for either of us.
Try not to worry about feeding in front of others.
Know what you mean about needing a crystal ball
Anyway, well done for persevering with breast feeding and keep posting and let us know how you are doing.
Melly xx

Would this article help?
www.bflrc.com/newman/breastfeeding/enough2.htm

Generally I think Mears is spot on ! The 10 minute idea is rubbish... and I would follow her suggestion

Also bottles may not make your life easier - I do hope it works out for you Melly but it isn't guaranteed. Breastmilk is easier to digest for babies.

Melly - glad there is someone who understands. I breast fed ds1 for 7.5 months and think I would feel guilty for stopping at 10 weeks but seriously considering introducing more bottles - I know how you feel though and think you are brave to change over - it is a personal decision and either way we would never know if we made the right decision - I think you have to trust your instincts but be prepared to feel guilty as that is part of life. I hear so many women say that they were happier to change and that the baby was more fulfilled - but as I say crystal balls are needed here.

thanks for your support everyone - I really appreciate it as there are few people you can talk to about such a personal thing

Thanks Pupuce - it is an interesting article and does help.

One other thing if you are still there is that I have become qute sore on one side (doesn't help the issue!) but it feels more of a bruise around the nipple than a cracked one. It is painful when he is not latched on and gets hot after feeding. It looks a bit bruise coloured too - has anyone come across this before?

I would have said the babies that sleep through at 12 weeks are in the minority. It's some sort of magic figure we all hear from somewhere but I can only recall one of my friends who achieved that.

In answer to your question - I assume he's gaining weight nicely and that is the best indicator with bf babies that he is getting enough milk.

Like others on this thread, with my first I fed her as long as she wanted - usually 30 - 45 minutes (aarghh - no wonder I was exhausted). With the others they would usually get 10 - 15 minutes, but longer if I had nothing better to do

Hughsie this is a subject very dear to my heart! I sympathise so much with you. I bet you are just plain exhausted.
Who suggested that your baby "should" sleep through by 12 weeks??? I might be tempted to have another couple if I thought this might be the case.
My one year old has just started to sleep through most nights in the past few weeks. He had nothing but breastmilk for the first six months and has never had formula. However my other two were onto formula after just a few weeks and they were no better at sleeping!

Mears as always gives great advice. Just go with the flow.
I think the ten minute idea can be helpful in that it conveys the notion you do NOT need to sit feeding all day long if it does not suit you. Sometimes your baby will have to make do with ten or so minutes if that is all you have time for; at other times you can both enjoy a bit of a breastfest for a couple of hours if you like.
I have always felt a little uncomfortable with the idea a baby is wanting to suck "just " for comfort, as if that were not a legitimate need in a baby. If you have time, let him suck on even if it is probably mainly a comfort thing. If you don't have time, that's okay , he won't starve.
Hang in there! I do remember my baby at ten to twelve weeks was particularly demanding

I think it may be a blocked duct.... careful!!!!
Massage your breast under a hot shower and express a bit making sure you GENTLY rob that painful area...

Everyone has given you great advice Hughsie. I agree with everyone else that the 10 mins thing is rubbish, my DS2 is 11 months and still takes longer than 10 mins a side unless he is desperate to get down and play. Very surprised at the recommendation that your DS should be sleeping through by 12 weeks and IMPO don't think that should be expected, although it would be nice but not very likely.

I know it's really tough just now at 10 weeks the tiredness seems to peak and the initial excitement wears off (well this happened IME anyway) but in a few more weeks it will be so much easier and without the added hassle of making up bottles if you keep up b/feeding. I used to tell myself and still tell myself whenever I think about giving up b/feeding that it will be easier again and I know I would regret giving up, even at 11 months I can't bear the thought of making up cups of milk not to mention the hassle of trying to get him to take any other milk.

I would agree with pupuce that your bruise sounds like a blocked duct and at the risk of repeating myself (hee, hee here she goes again) would recommend savoy cabbage leaves (someone was talking about cooked cabbage on another thread but personally I have always used raw, by the time they come out again they are cooked )!

All the best and sorry for the waffling, enjoy your little baby your making me feel all broody again!

Thank you - I sudffered a blocked duct with ds1 but it wasn't this bad. I'm up now coz the pain is too much and going to try the cabbage - it is really painful to feed on that side but know you have to stick with it to get any better - ouch!

Pupuce - I've just searched an old thread and seen mention of a white spot on the nipple and you mentioned using a needle to unblock it. I have had a spot for a couple of weeks now - would you say it is worth a try to relieve the duct?

Yes - BUT be careful.... sterilise needle first too! Do it in a bath and try to express the dried up milk as soon as you have been with needle.
BTW I'd try in hot bath without needle first. (massage).. and then GENTLY go in with needle, it does not hurt but you don't want to make it bloody either

Thanks upuce - SUCCESS.

It was blocked and after a hot shower and the needle it feels better - ds2 fed afterwards and although it still ached a bit - it feels much better now - VERY GRATEFUL!!