7wks "perfect latch", broken glass in my bra. Considering surrender.

[mrsfix]

Went to check with BF lady yesterday, she is now the 111th person to say she has a perfect latch. She tweaked my cradle position but didn't think it could be responsible for the pain.
Went to GP today, actually hoping for it to be thrush if that's possible? Nope.

Were it not for the fact that there was a traffic accident in front of us on the way home and we needed to feed in the car, I would have stopped at the supermarket, bought formula and never BFd again.

My boobes aren't even as big as they have been and yet they feel like they've been beaten up. Can't even bear DD's beautiful little finger to rest on them whilst feeding, have to tuck her hands away. The nipples themselves are soooo sore, it really is like someone has filled my breastpads with razor blades.

I dread EVERY feed. I dread holding the poor thing FG'sS in case any pressure goes on my boobes or - and it makes me want to cry thinking about it - she brushes a flailing limb across my nips.

Weirdly I can almost cope with the feeding itself as it feels like it is pain with gain, but walking round all day like Quasimodo is utterly utterly rubbish.

Why do your boobes have to be THERE? Couldn't they be tucked round the back out of the way?

Sorry, please don't take any humour as anything other than gallows humour.

I smiled through, survived, even enjoyed, a rubbish pregnancy (SPD, crutches from 3 months)and every conceivable crappy thing going wrong with the birth.... all whilst telling myself that at least I wasn't going to mess up the breastfeeding. I can't tell you how important it is/was for me to 'get this right'. I know what pain is and this is unbearable.

Pretty please with strawberries and cream on - will it get better by itself, is there anything we haven't thought of, should I surrender?

xxx

and are nipple shields a rod for my own back as they do make it tiny bit more comfortable

Are you sure its not thrush? Did GP test? My breasts felt just like that when I had thrush.. exactly the broken glass sensation you describe

She didn't 'test' as such, she had a good nosey though?

She looked at DD's mouth (I know that doesn't always show signs) and my boobes but said that she didn't want to prescribe a cure for something she couldn't tell whether it existed or not.

How do you mean 'test'? (and thank you by the way!)

I had thrush IN my breasts and it felt like glass shards coming out of my nipples. I saw a HV at my local bfing cafe and they gave me a leaflet to give to my GP to 'prove' that thrush in the breast existed.

here is the leaflet.

Ask for Fluconazole here is some Q&A from the BMJ regarding dosages. The GP will have to prescribe this off label but it is used for very prem babies and only a small fraction of the dosage gets through the milk.

You have my every sympathy as it is excruciating pain (also had SPD and horrendous labour so I don't use excruiating lightly).

I got treated and am still feeding my DD at 3 years later. It will get better just make an emergency appointment for tomorrow or go in to your local walk in centre, it is urgent you get treated as you sound like you are at the end of your tether.

Don't forget to ask for some miconazole for DC mouth to make sure you don't get reinfected. Cold water serilisation will not get rid of thrush so boil/steam serilise dummies/nipple shields/pump/etc and use disposable breast pads.

Good luck with Drs.

Meant to say 'it felt like glass shards coming out of my nipples from deep in my breast tissue'

Just wanted to echo Verity's excellent advice.

I had undiagnosed thrush in my breasts (also told my latch was perfect) and it was hell.

Don't let them fob you off, best of luck.

Do you have any blanching of the nipple? Are they sensitive at all times? When you express?

I had excrutiating pain with both dd's, with dd1 I had bad latch, thrush, tongue tie. With dd2 I had none of those things, but still the agony.

Someone on mumsnet mentioned nipple vasospasm (related to Reynauds syndrome or nipple trauma). There is a bit about it here. But someone else may know more, or you could mention it to a bfc, if any of the symptoms ring any bells.

Good luck

BTW, I have just noticed that someone with this problem has started a thread in breast/bottle, so you may want to check that out.

Has anyone checked her for a tongue tie? Did the bf lady say anything except about the lacth being "perfect"? Any suggestions as to what might be going on? What is her actual qualification?

I'd suggest ringing all the helplines, and keeping searching for help locally until you find someone who can actually help.

I hope things improve for you soon.

I love you ALL! Many many thanks. Am typing with one (wrong ) hand at this second but will get back to you later properly.

I would also suggest looking for tongue tie, My latch was perfect for the nearly 4 weeks of excruciating agony of breastfeeding, before it was spotted.

The advice earlier on sounds really good though so hope you get some relief one way or another.

Also, do you have visible damage to your nipples (cracking, bleeding, redness?)? Excatly what do they look like after a feed: shape/colour etc?

I know I harp on about this guy but try watching the clips on his site:

www.drjacknewman.com/

He uses a different position - went through something similar about 6 weeks and these videos helped SO much, I also emailed him and he replied. He's based in Canada.

NotSoSorryReallyForHarpingOnAboutDrNewmanTiggaxx

Forgot to add I had the latch is ok speach as well - it wasn't ok or it wouldn't have hurt!

RememberingThePainTiggaxx

Hello there invisible best friends! Firstly, and most importantly, THANK YOU and huge apologies I was unable to get back to you sooner.

So.... it looks like I'm still getting "lippy nips" so we have more work to do on the latch but it is 2 weeks later and we're still going - thanks to you. As a new Mum you assume that everything is black and white and the same for everybody. No really, you do! Stop that laughing at the back

Thanks to you chaps I went to a different GP and asked to be checked again. To no avail but at least I wasn't my usual fawning "if it isn't too much trouble" self. I am sorry to report that both GPs made BF-isn't-all-it's-cracked-up-to-be noises but I think they were just trying to let me down gently for giving up. Not sure they even should have done that on reflection but maybe that's a more furious post another day. So, no diagnosis but it kept me going for another 24hrs.

Having had so many pats on the head in our 5 day hospital stay for perfect latch (midwives, paedies, HV, visiting BF peer thingy)I was hanging onto the fact that I was doing something right and didn't want to fess up to myself that it might not have been and that was something else that I hadn't done right... I know! Ridiculous. But very very very true when you are shattered and praying for the wind outside to die down because the draft through the window is hurting your hoo-hars!

Having plucked up that bit of confidence from you guys (and being told a few days later she wasn't gaining weight either) I drew a very deep breath and went to the BF grp run by "The County Guru" who I had/have few nightmares about as she did night shifts whilst we were in the pits of hospital hell.

She IS still a bogeyman (and eats babies who are left unnattended. No, it's true) but she didn't 'alf 'elp. I now only have sandpaper in my bra and whoever it was has stopped using my bra as a punchbag whilst I sleep.

Moral of the story? Go get help. At the BF grp I sat in a line of 4 new Mums who were 'never going to go and do all that ghastly group stuff people do when they have babies. Not that type of person'.... we are all going to see each other next week. Last week I sat next to a woman who was on her 4th BF child and "it didn't work" with this one which reminds me we are all different and so are our nippERs.

I am still convinced there is 'something' wrong but it is definitely now bearable and we can move something else up the worry list instead whilst we keep trying.

xxx to all of you

PS Is Dr Jack the boobe squeezy man (compression?)? I need to learn that for the 11pm Woody Woodpecker sessions!
PPS I have suffered with vasospasm before in my life (floods of tears holding 2 cups of tea f'ya kwim), just never knew it was a 'real' thing, am looking into that and have sent the link to my Mum who gets white fingers. Huzzah
PPPS Have also had a sackload of sleep... can you tell?

I missed the original thread and glad things are improving, but as other posters have said, 'broken glass' sounds exactly like thrush. It's so common and so easily treated. I had it misdiagnosed with first and second babies and have had it with all three babies. This time round, I didn't even bother with a doctor because they never seem to be able to spot it. With the first baby, the midwife insisted the white crud in her mouth was 'milk curds' - it wasn't.

Daktarin cream is brilliant - clears it up right away.

I used Daktarin cream on me (not the gold stuff, it itches) and oral gel on the baby - they now say you shouldn't use it on babies under three months but this guidance has only changed recently because of a choking hazard if you apply gobs of the stuff. Personally, I used it very thinly and it's been fine.

I'd suggest if you still think something's wrong, try the cream - it's unlikely to cause any negative reactions and may well improve things drastically.

Many thanks Carmen - tbh I was/am going to give it another week at better latching then go and have a hissy fit with my gp.... it isn't possible that itis supposed to hurt this much, even if it has got a bit better.

Should everyone eventually be able to feed without looking/wincing?!

Did you use Daktarin on your nipps and then wipe it off before feeding?

HRH had white spots but then i realised it is where her teeth will be - have seen pics of baby oral thrush and that's not the badger.

Also, at my 6 week check, got some clotrimazole (sp?) cream as we thought I may have mild vaginal thrush - is that the same thing?

Yes you should be able to feed without wincing eventually. A little discomfort is possible in the first few weeks but not to the extent you're experiencing.

Breast thrush is like vaginal thrush and I understand that the baby can catch it during progress through the birth canal, however my first baby was born by caesarean and I'm sure I didn't have vaginal thrush when my third baby was born yet they both still had it as newborns, so I don't really understand how that works to be honest! I do think if you're prone to vaginal yeast you have a very very strong chance of baby mouth/breast thrush though.

It's horrible though. Really horrible. I remember dreading early feeds. And I'm still amazed how underdiagnosed it is when it's so common and treatable.

You apply the daktarin several times a day. I'd do it right after a feed so it has a good chance to soak in and work before the next feed. I don't think it'll do the baby any harm to eat a trace amount, but probably good to wipe off excess! If it works and you're reluctant to try the oral gel on your baby, you should probably return to a doctor to find an alternative treatment (gentian violet is often used I think - no personal experience but I hear very very messy!) for her otherwise she'll be uncomfy and keep re-infecting you. If you're infected, she will be.

Good luck!

I had thrush for 7 weeks and this certainly sounds like it to me. I found the cream fairly useless and had two courses of fluconazole before I finally kicked it. I also had endless people look at my latch and 3 doctors appointments before I got the pills. As far as I know there IS no reliable test for thrush, and my DD certainly showed no sign of it but we were still passing it back and forth.

Did you have antibiotics in labour? They can kill off good bacteria leaving a free playing ground for the nasty candida stuff. Going sugar free in your diet (that means no bread and very limited fruit too) can make a big difference, as can probiotics.

You have my deepest sympathy, I remember all too vividly sobbing through feeds and screaming if a towel touched my boobs after a bath. But I kicked it eventually, it's never come back and i'm still happily feeding (DD now 7.5 months) so hang on in there and go to doc with the breastfeeding network leaflet that someone (sorry, typing on blackberry so can't see who) posted below.