formula - too rich? Tiktok/Mears

[DelGirl]

My dd is 4 weeks old and until now has been exclusively breast fed. We got off to a slow start and she has gained 5.5 oz in the pat 2 weeks. Her correct birth weight is unknown as the scales were wrong.

Anyway, due to lots of reasons, i'd like to mix feed with EBM and formula as well as feeding her myself at least 1st thing in the morning/last thing at night.

So, I started her off on the mid morning feed on 4oz of SMA gold. She took to the bottle no problem and took the formula, well 2.5 oz of it. (I'd given her about 1.5 oz of EBM about an hour or so earlier). She brought a small amount of this up, but nothing alarming. Then, this afternoon, I gave her another 4 oz. She then went a bit clammy and pale for a while and subsequently brought a fair amount of it back up. I wouldn't think it was all of it and it wasn't exactly projectile vomit but after it had stopped, about an hour after taking it, she was fine. I've now breast fed her (2.5 hours later and she's ok but she's not fed for as long as normal.

All of this probably sounds quite normal to seasoned mothers but to a novice like me its a slight worry. I did take her temp earlier but that was fine and now shes ok, i'm happy but it did concern me when she went so pale and clammy. Anyway, to get to the point......does anyone think the SMA gold may be too rich and if so, what other formula would you recommend? I'm going to ring the HV tomorrow and see what she suggests but thought i'd put it to you lot as well. Sorry this is so long, just want to get it right. Thanks for listening

anyway, the plan for today is to forget any kind of bottle and just feed her as and when and in between , try and build up some stocks of EBM. I'm going for an xray in a couple of weeks which means I have a dye injected, and the process takes a while anyway, so i'm going to have to give her a bottle then.

just re-read what you both said. Severe lack of grey matter today! I'll just go with replacing 1 feed at the mo and hope I can express enough for that its just that i'm finding the nights really hard with her being attached for so long and then not settling. I can see alot of eye rolling and 'what did I expect'.

If you do want to continue breastfeeding have you considered gritting your teeth and getting to six weeks before you introduced mixed feeding- often things settle down quite a bit around that time. I mixed fed ds but I had gallons of milk and it was fine - I fed much more often than twice a day though. I suspect that would have finished breastfeeding for me. I think Mears idea of expressing whenever you give a bottle is a good one - except by the time you get to six weeks you might find it quicker to just feed! Good luck whatever you decide.

oh I don't know what's best really. The hospital have just rung and told me that although the dye wont harm dd it will affect the taste of my milk for a couple of days so between now and then i'm just going to have to express as often as possible aren't I. I can cope with that during the day but if I have a bad night, as i've had for several nights, I find that really stressful and usually end up in tears. I do want to keep going with the BF but I do wonder whether DD and I would be happier if I didn't tbh.

Delgirl, feeding little and often is on the normal spectrum at this age....though it can feel like hard work, and if you feel lacking in confidence in your milk, it can feel even harder. It does help to accept that this is the way it is, and to keep dd close so there is no real expectation she is going to sleep for longer....and you don't get that heart sink feeling when you hear her stirring in her crib, you simply pop her on again...and again
Night feeds are helped by co-sleeping (done safely, natch).
I agree with mears that expressing at the same time as giving a bottle of formula will help negate the impact of giving formula, and allow you to build up a stock of ebm for when you want it.
You need to ask yourself why you want to give ebm 'ideally'. Is because that way you 'see how much she is getting'? Not really necessary in bf, honest! And it doesn't tell you much that's useful, either.....so you see how much is going in, true, but it's from your baby's behaviour and growth that you judge whether she is getting 'enough'.

Bf is hardest for most people in the early stages, which is where you still are. I looked at your previous posts and I now remember you had a difficult first weeks, with conflicting advice and not great info, either. It's gonna be even harder for you to get going, as a result....but it gets easier, and easier, really and truly.

The effect of the dye may or may not effect the taste of the milk - I have known mothers who have continued to feed and their babies have never shown any inducation that they even noticed

phew, thanks tiktok. One of the reasons for wanting to give a bottle is because i'm not very confident and don't really want to b/f in public. I know it can be done discreetly but i'd be happier not to tbh. And, i'm not out that often so replacing one feed in the day/eve should be adequate at this stage. Also, with the impending xray etc, I need to be sure that she can be given a bottle, which she's proved she can, bless her heart . The other, as i;ve already mentioned is the night feed. Hopefully by replacing one, I can feed her a bit quicker, know that she's had enough and be able to perhaps settle her more easily. She is quite a sucky baby and I think part of it at night is for comfort more than anything. MW and HV have suggested a dummy but i'm not keen although at 3am, they do seem appealing .

As for co-sleeping. Up until the end of last week we had been, and she was more settled then but, after the news item, I didn't want to ignore it so decided to put her in her moses basket. So, another factor of making her more unsettled I suppose. I loved co-sleeping but im loathe to re-start it now as I would eventually like her to go into her own room. Right, think i've covered everything but if I think of anything else i'll let you know. Thanks tiktok. Now off to get some breakfast, drink lots of water and settle down to some expressing before dd wakes up. Any more tips, gratefully received. ta!

I'd give a dummy if I were you. If you have a sucky baby it can be a godsend.
I have every sympathy for you re the nights. My ds was a nightmare and sometimes I used to be sitting up in bed, crying, as I fed him. However, giving formula made no difference to his sleeping. Also, it does get easier. The early weeks of breastfeeding are so much harder. re breastfeeding in public, do you know anyone else who is breastfeeding so you can go out to a cafe together, for example and both breastfeed? Maybe that would help.
I think it's really important to be out and about when you have a baby. It is a sanity saver. Whereabouts do you live?

DelGirl - what news item? I thought I heard something about a new item about smoking and cosleeping? Or drinking?

At any rate, done safely, cosleeping is an excellent solution to night feeds. I coslept with DS1 until he was 3 months, and I still cosleep with DS2 at 7.5 months, after he wakes up for his first night feed. Cosleeping now doesn't mean cosleeping forever. My DS1 has never slept with us since we moved him into his own bed. (There's nothing wrong with cosleeping with toddlers, whatever works for you - I just don't want to, personally!)

NQC - how is co-sleep best done safely?? do you use a grobag? we've sometimes had our 15 wk ds in with us in the early morning after a night feed, but tbh i'm always worried abt whether he'll be ok - my obstetrician bil says its def not safe...& that plays on my mind i guess.

Co-sleeping is safe as long as neither partner smokes or is under the influence of drugs or alcohol, and as long as it is done in a bed not a sofa or chair, or water bed, and as long as the baby isn't allowed to get too hot by too many covers or the head being covered.

All of that is research-based. Any overall ban of co-sleeping is not research-based, and is not justified in any way.

There's plenty of info on this, but media messages tend to over-simplify guidance...and there's no reason for an obstetrician (huh?) telling mothers not to co-sleep.

On the baby friendly website, there's a factsheet on safe co-sleeping - scroll down this page

roosmum - tiktok knows her stuff on this.

How we do it is: we have a very hard bed (futon on slat frame). The baby sleeps between me and the outside of the bed (no wall there) or between me and dh. He does go under the duvet, but he's always wearing just a vest (no sleepsuit, would be too warm), and I'm always aware of not letting the duvet go over him. (Many parents use sleeping bags or grobags, though, which is probably easier and safer.)

His head doesn't go on the pillow. If he's on the outside of the bed, my nursing pillow goes between him and the edge, so he can't fall off. (Our bed is quite high.)

I also try to keep the cats from lying on his chest.

I probably would be more careful (as in, I wouldn't put him under the duvet - I'd still cosleep!) if we weren't 100% ok on all the other cot death risks (not preemie, no smoking around him, lying on back, breastfeeding, etc etc).

NQC, lol at " I also try to keep the cats from lying on his chest"

well, had a bit of a hard day yesterday and almost felt like giving up b/f altogether as dd fed for almost 3 hours non-stop and then again for about 1.5 hours. Now realised in my sleepy haze that the majority of that is probably for comfort and that I should maybe get her a dummy after all, just for when things get too stressful. I managed to express about 3 oz in 1 shot yesterday which I didn't think was too bad but just couldn't manage to do it again.

DD started the night off fairly unsettled despite feeding her for ages (thats when I decided on the dummy) but although she woke for both of her night feeds after only a couple of hours, I was so shattered that I decided to feed her lying on my side with her in bed as at least that way I felt a bit more rested. She fell asleep after prob 1/2 hour and when I out her back in the moses basket she seemed to settle a bit quicker. This morning I feel a bit calmer, but still knackered and just waiting to see what today brings. Have a bottle of formula made up in the fridge though, just in case, which is what I did yesterday but didn't use it.

oh and Aloha, I know, getting out does make me feel better and I have managed to go out most days, even for just half an hour or so and dd sleeps in her pram the whole time. Even spent a couple of hours mocching round the shops and she doesn't stir. Just some days, I can't muster up the energy

tiktok & nqc, thanks for the replies...me too lol at the cheeky cats
my bil had a friend who lost a baby at 9 mths to cot death - think the baby cuddled up to mum & was dead when they woke up , not to alarm or upset anyone but this scares me silly! still it was the only way we cd get ds to sleep at first...now mainly in grobag, in cot
delgirl - sorry it's such hard going, my ds is 15 wks & after a rocky start it's now so easy - wishing the same for you
dummy cd be good for you - my ds won't hv anything to do with them (to my delight/annoyance!), but has just started having ebm by bottle (result!), but i def agree w. aloha that getting out helps - they seem to forget how hungry/sucky they are?!
xxx

& delgirl, i know how you feel re feeding in public...i'd like to (baby is hungry...i feed, whereever, simple as that...only somehow it's not, iykwim), but not quite got the nerve to. always seem to end up scooting off to some baby change room, which inevitably stinks of disp nappies to feed there. have just got ds to take bottle, but don't want to use it often really.
sadly think lots of mums feel like thisn- met 1 in asda baby change (whilst feeding!) a few days ago who'd just stopped bf at 4 mths as she felt too uncomfortable bf in public...said she'd never had a neg reaction to it, but felt bad abt it herself. a shame, but i guess you can get to feeling like some sort of prisoner to bf?? anyone got any tips on getting confident to feed in public, or shd i (& delgirl????) just DO IT?
xxx

Re feeding in public. You could have a try-out of doing it by going out specifically to do that and nothing else. Take your time and choose somewhere you know has decent facilities so you'll be comfy. If you really want to justify going out, then buy a newspaper, a pint of milk (or even a bar of chocolate). Honestly, I promise you that even if anyone notices, no one will say anything. I've fed babies all over the place and never had any negative comments. If I happen to see someone feeding I feel all warm and cosy about it and think "how lovely".

yes, just try it! you cd practice in front of a mirror at home first if you are worried about flashing bits of boob or tum. but honestly v few people will even notice what you are doing, esp with a small, non-wriggly baby. maybe try somewhere relaxed first, e.g. the big squashy sofas they have in coffee chains, with a good book/mag so you've got something to focus on rather than worrying about whether people are looking at you.

it is sooo much easier than having to fiddle around with bottles when you are out

Another way to get used to breastfeeding in public is to try it in a bf-friendly place first, like a baby cafe, or a breastfeeding drop in, or a coffee morning. Or go somewhere normal, but with other friends who have kids?

I've breastfed in public all over the place, with both DS1 and DS2, and never had a funny look, never mind a remark. Not many people notice you're feeding - those who do are generally those who've breastfed, themselves.

Oh, and I used to be more anxious about the cats lying on DS2, but he went through a period of napping in our bed, alone with a cat. Anyway, now he's a strapping 7.5 month-old, so he can stand up for himself.

Thanks all for the advice about b/f in public but i'm still sure it's not for me. I'm far too cack handed to do it discreetly.

Yesterday and last night was much better. Not sure what's changed but she was more settled and fed far quicker. She had a period of on off feeding but then slept for about 4 hours last night and then another 2 so that was great. From about 6am she's been in bed with me and we've both slept on and off and she's fed on and off. Lets hope the day continues as well as the night. She's all scrummy and changed for the day and then after the next feed, we're off out to the shops. I may even treat myself to a cappucino while we're out. Hoorah, the joys of motherhood!

Delgirl. That's lovely.

YAY.... My clever little girl has put on 6.5 oz this week . I'm so pleased. HV has said I could give 1 bottle of formula a day, only if I want to, and express after so I can build up supplies for my hospital visits etc. I'll see how we go but little miss slept again for 4 hours and 2'ish hours last night so this mum is very happy this morning . HV also said I should take her off after 30/40 mins or when she starts fussing and not to feed her for 2 hours minimum. so thats a relief in itself. Feel like we're finally getting somewhere. Just hope I won't be eating my words after this

Lovely! So pleased for you.
Would you consider breastfeeding somewhere where other women are also doing it? Like a cafe where lots of mums go after a m&T group?
I Think once you've done it once, you realise that it feels OK, and if you don't like it, well at least you've tried it!

hmmm.......I have, yes. But, as I was saying to my HV i'm so heavy that I need a crane to lift them iyswim and i'm just not sure I can do it discreetly. At most, on social outings/occasions, I'm sure i'd only need one bottle of expressed/formula as that would keep her going in between for 6 or more hours. You know b/f then bottle then b/f. I suppose the only downfall of that is keeping it cool/warming up but I can cope with that once in a while. Thanks for your suggestion though Aloha