Bottle feeding pariahs.

[nobby]

I fully intended to breastfeed my first child but he never managed to get a single drop of milk from my breasts - even though the milk was there. Health professionals all thought this could be overcome but one after the other they gave up - as did the breastfeeding counsellor, Active Birth teacher, Fred Bloggs... After a week (it seemed so much longer) a kindly midwife said 'stop beating yourself up and give the poor hungry mite a bottle'. He loved it. Blossomed. I expressed for 2 weeks before my milk dried up and then he had formula. So why am I writing this? Because I felt a complete freak. Everywhere I turned, books, the media and other mothers told me that my baby was going to get all sort of diseases, that I was failing him and was an uncaring mother. There was no information on bottle feeding and no help to be had. I was miserable and to begin with it ruined what should be a wonderful time.

My son is extremely healthy, bright, loving and funny. He has not been affected adversely in any way and neither has my bonding relationship with him. The only threat to my sanity and his health came from the breastfeeding evangelists.

Bottle feeding mothers are not evil. There is far more to producing a contented, healthy child than simply breastfeeding.

Lisa, your experience is exactly the sort of thing that should be outlawed...handling women and telling them they should be able to do it. Grrrrrrrrrr

NCT breastfeeding counsellors (and ones from the other organisations) are trained to help with positioning and attachment without touching the mother's breasts at all. There is never any need to handle or touch or prod or poke in any way, in my experience.

I have found that many of the most helpful midwives and other health professionals manage to be 'hands off' as well.

I am one of the few people who didn't even try to breastfeed. Most people say they tried and gave up for one reason or another or, as in SamboM's case couldn't for a medical reason.

This makes me feel very very guilty and I know that peope do think that I was selfish. I started out my pregnancy with the intention of breastfeeding as I have asthma, hayfever and had childhood excema but as time went on I just knew I couldn't do it. I had nightmares about it which only stopped when I decided not to try.

However I do think that had more support been available during pregnancy, and I mean support not midwives telling you you must breastfeed because we say so (they had this phrase best for baby best for mom which I hated as it covered every matter of hospital policy some of which were not best for me)then I may have given it a go. I knew no-one who had breast fed and only heard stories of how awful it was and how I would not be able to cope with it from friends and family.

I was made to feel a leper in my antenatal classes as I was the only person to not put their hand upo when asked who was going to bottle feed.

Towards the end of my pregnancy I began to change my mind and thought I would try mixed feeding but was told that this was not possible (something I know know is rubbish. I felt that the midwives had their policy and were not prepared to find out what was best for my particular situation and feelings.

I suffered from PND and for a long time was unable to see anything to do with breastfeeding without feeling awful. I also obsessed about various other things too so it wasn't just that. One of the things that did make me angry though was that I was excluded from new mum groups as the only ones in my area were for breastfeeding mums. I had half a mind to set up a support group called bottle babes! When I moved house I joined the NCT and did find them incredibly supportive.

I wish that I could say that I bottle fed and dd is perfectly healthy etc etc but if you read the asthma thread on the health section you will see that this isn't so. This is a decision that I will have to live with for the rest of my life.

I haven't had time to read all the messages on this thread (as dh is pointedly standing behind me wanting to use the pc) but just wanted to mention my experiences.

I really struggled to b/f ds1. It hurt terribly at first - so much so that I used to have to bite down on a flannel when he latched on, and used to dread feeds so much that I went into a cold sweat just anticipating one. Later I had problems with a wildly over-active letdown, which resulted in a very distressed baby who wanted to suckle but couldn't, and who became very colicky as a result of too much fore-milk. I couldn't contemplate feeding in public as ds1 was pulling off all the time screaming, and I'd have probably showered several passers-by with milk when he did. To add insult to injury, if dh gave him a bottle of ebm or formula, he took it calmly and happily.

Through sheer bloody-mindedness I continued to feed him for about 12 weeks until giving up. I could see no alternative. Looking back, I was bordering on PND which was all related to b/f. After going onto formula things became much less fraught, and I felt comfortable with my decision.

BUT...

There was always a kind of regret in my mind that it hadn't worked out. I became more and more determined to "succeed" next time round. When ds2 was born, I did experience many of the same problems. But I was also much more informed about b/f and determined to carry on whatever. And eventually it did get better. By about 3, maybe 4 months most of the problems had resolved themselves and I was actually enjoying it! By 6 months I could feed in public without any qualms. And here I am, still feeding him at 18 months. Who'd have thought it true?

I suppose what I wanted to say is that I can see both sides. If someone has given it their best shot, there is no point beating themselves up about it. If they are anything like me with ds1 they have made absolutely the right decision to preserve their sanity at this moment in time - and that can only be beneficial for their relationship with their child. But with a lot of commitment and the right help and advice it is possible to b/f a subsequent baby, even through many of the same problems experienced last time.

Right, better stop there, as dh is practically wrestling the computer from me because it's his turn!

Very interesting thread. Fair play to all of you who at least tried to bf before having problems (and in some cases extremely scary experiences). I decided not to the moment I found out I was pregnant. Me bf (or thought of it) felt like the most unnatural thing in the world - some of you may think I'm quite evil! Anyway, decided not to feel guilty about it all, even though the reactions of some could have sent me down the PND route if I let it get to me. Turned out ds had allergy to milk (first 12 weeks were like living in hell) and whilst I went through my own scary experience of bottlefeeding I still would not choose breastfeeding. I thought I'd put down my own thoughts/experience in case some mumsnetters out there feel the same way about bf and need to hear they're not alone!

My first born screamed the place down at the sight of my big boob, and being 18 i was happy just to say, chuck me a bottle...much to the disgust of the midwife at the end of the bed( no support at all) My second baby frowned at a bottle and was happily breastfed for 13 months...till i decided i didnt really want a toddler shouting "booby" at me. My dp and my mum were horrified at me breastfeeding, i still dont know why, maybe they thought it would exhaust me...which made me all the more determined, but to be honest it was no more exhausting than having to stay up late to sterilise bottles. Each to their own?

You may find this article of interest Breastfeeding and Guilt

The common thread in this thread, (and other earlier ones on a similar vein), is that so many people seem to suffer a lot of guilt if they give up having attempted to breastfeed. It seems that almost everyone as a first time mother does initially go along with the idea that that is what they are going to do. And yet many find it much, much harder thatn they expected. I have to wonder whether this is in part down to the information people are given before their baby is born about breastfeeding. Such a rosy picture is painted, that when reality kicks in and you find that it can be extremely painful early on - even if you've got it right - until your nipples "toughen up" you feel that you're not living up to the impression that you were given before the birth. In other words you feel a failure. And because you then feel that you are somehow different to all the happy breastfeeding mothers shown in the literature you give up. Not surprising really if you look at it that way. Perhaps what is really needed is a bit more realism in the way breastfeeding is presented to new mums before their babies are born. Admit that it might hurt and give people strategies to deal with it. Make them feel normal. So the odd one or 2 (though not many I bet) might decide not to try if it might hurt, but I'm sure a lot more would persevere if they weren't being set up to feel failures.

I think JulieF's point about being told that mixed feeding isn't possible is another big issue - there must be many, many people who would continue partial bf if they thought that was an option, but at the time they have to decide feel that thy cannot continue with exclusive bf. It's time a lot of the professionals woke up and recognised that the "ideal world" of everyone breastfeeding 100% isn't going to happen just because that's what they like to say is best. The overall rate of bf would surely increase if more support for mixed feeding was given if and when mothers felt that they couldn't continue with 100% bf.

GillW - the point about mixed feeding is that it is only recommended after 6 weeks because to do it beforehand may affect establishing breastfeeding. If you are still breastfeeding at 6 weeks it is likely that you have established it fully and everything is going well and you wouldn't need to mix feed.

If breastfeeding is working it is the easiest thing in the world (I've had both experiences of good and bad) and the last thing you want to do is to go and make a bottle of milk. It can be an option though if you want to go out for example and give you a bit of freedom if that's what you wish but to continue with breastfeeding properly you should have it established.

It has been shown that if mixed feeding is introduced early on then it usually results in the mum giving up. If the mum feels that she would rather do this (ie give some breastmilk rather than none at all) then fair enough but usually it means a lot of work involving trying to breastfeed and then the added work of preparing bottles when it would be better to concentrate on the problem that is causing the difficulty in the first place (or just go straight onto the bottles if that is what the mother wants).

I do agree that breastfeeding is idealised and that it should be recognised that women are able to cope with more information. To say it might hurt however may just put some off and besides it only hurts if it is going wrong. This is rather a negative way to look at breastfeeding. I do agree that more details of the possible difficulties and ways to solve problems would be useful.

At the end of the day it is not always the mothers fault - it is the baby's - it is the baby that has to do all the work!

Eulalia - I wasn't really talking about mixed feeding at less than 6 weeks - but about the way bf is so often presented as "all or nothing". I've heard it said so many times that as soon as you give a baby one bottle that is the end for breastfeeding. If that isn't telling people that they will have to give up, even if they would like to carry on, when their circumstances make it impossible to 100% bf, then what is?

If you have to return to work and your employers will not provide facilities or time to allow you to express you are made to feel that you have NO CHOICE but to give up bf. Yet daytime bottle feeds and bf the rest of the time can work perfectly well.

I just wish that the focus was on how to keep bf - even if it isn't exclusive - going for longer, rather than the "we don't want to know you if you don't commit to it 100%" approach that seems so common.

And yes it can hurt in the early days even when the latch is "right". You've obviously never had a child like mine who NEVER went more than 20 minutes between finishing one feed and starting the next for the first 23 days of his life. With that kind of overuse and virtually no recovery time you do end up sore, no matter what.

I agree totally about the guilt.I was breastfed; I assumed I'd breastfeed; and in fact I had no problems at all with breastfeeding (if anything I produced too much milk). But actually, after three months of constant feeding, I was beginning to get to the end of my tether with it (and yes, I could and did express). And the other thing nobody's raised is that sooner or later most of us go back to other sort of work and unless you are prepared to spend ALL day on that expressing machine, you look for an alternative. I mixed fed (b/f night and morning) till dd was 10 months old and then she went off it. But I did feel guilty even for doing that, as technically I didn't have an 'excuse' for giving up - and theoretically I could have expressed her three feeds daily, as I work from home - I just didn't want to feed, feed, feed.

Incidentally Mears, I too think you're being given dreadful advice on how you 'choose' to react. Very unsupportive in my view.

GillW - sorry but you don't actually know my circumstances. It took me over 5 weeks to establish breastfeeding with ds - and he was often permanently attached during those periods and I had pain. He got some formula during that time - difficult to say if it affected my supply or not in retrospect. I basically had to wait till he got bigger and stronger. The problem is with some one bottle can soon become two and antoher and so on. That happened with my friend who gave up at 4 months and said afterwards that she didn't try hard enough.

But I do agree after 6 weeks mixing should be OK. I've another friend who gave her son one bottle a day from birth and then mixed fed when she went to work.

Sorry, I think my message crossed with GillWs about work. But point still there about even if you can express, can you face the time and effort 3 times a day...

...and on the point of pain, I STILL feel as if a layer of skin had been brillo-padded off my nipples, 18 months after finishing last lot of breasfeeding - hate to have them touched by anyone.

GillW, you hit the nail right on the head about the attitude of health proffessionals. No-one was prepared to discuss my circumstances and work out a solution that was right for me. If it had been explained about building up a supply for 6 weeks or so then I would probably have tried then moved to mixed feeding. I was concerned about not coping and I wanted dh to be able to help with a bottle every so often. I was also planning on returning to work full time. If it hadn't have worked then at least I would have given it a go.

To Nobby and the other mums who have not breastfed, for whatever reason - it is a comfort to know there are others who feel like I do and I wholeheartedly agree that it's time bottle-feeding mothers had some support and a place to share feelings. Thanks to you for starting thread, Nobby. :-)

There is a great support group on the web for mothers who wanted to bf and who are coping with the fact it didn't work out, for whatever reasons.

www.internetbabies.com/mobi/

MOBI stands for Mothers Overcoming Breastfeeding Issues.

It's not aimed at those who happily chose to formula feed, and it's not a forum for discussing the pros and cons of formula and breast. All others will find a lot of sense, non-judgemental support, and encouragement for the future.

You can also join an email list for 'live' support.

I just want to add an entirely different perspective.

My dd was born with a heart condition and Down syndrome. yes it would have been wonderful to breast feed and that was my intention. I can relate to the - shown to a side room in Special Care Baby unit and told to try and breast feed - Like i knew what I was doing - err no - baby no1. Did have a nurse take my nreast and try and stick it in dd's mouth! Took that in my stride and made sure I never tried again whilst she was on duty. I really could not focus on the breastfeeding as there were far more serious health issues at stake here. I was expressing as much as I could and Dd probably had that for the first six weeks or so of her life via nasal gastric tube.

Well - I was not even able to bottle feed for the first two months Dd was fed by nasal gastric tube right up until after her surgery. We were not to take a risk with her expending the energy it would have taken to feed via breast or bottle.

After surgery she went straight on a bottle and took to feeding incredibly well. We were very lucky she never lost that sucking reflex.

I am very aware that other parents of children with down syndrome can have lots of problems with feeding.

I am just grateful that my baby is healthy and happy and ALIVE.

Yes I too felt the pressure of breast vs bottle BUT hey when it came down to it - I really did not have a choice. I refused to beat myself up about it and decided I had to do what was best for my child.

You think people are uncomfortable by woman who breast fed in public - try feeding with a nasal gastric tube and see the looks one gets!!!

Eidesvold - good to hear a different perspective - certainly brings out the point 'grateful that my baby is healthy and happy and alive' (best wishes to you both). At the end of the day that's what matters most whether the child is bottle, breast or nasal gastric tube fed - we clutch at what can get our baby sorted and put our own feelings second.

When my Ds was in hospital with the allergy to milk there was a very young mother with her baby who had to be fed by a nasal gastric tube. It certainly put my own situation into perspective and also showed me how brave and capable mothers can be no matter how young they are.

I am grateful that my child is also healthy and happy and my heart goes out to all mothers who have problems with feeding their babies - whatever method used. My sister had her dd a year before my own ds was born and she was determined to breastfeed. We didn't see much of her for the initial 12 weeks as she SEEMED just to want to bond with her newborn. It was only 9 months afterwards that we found out she had been suffering from PND and that she didn't realsie it either. Turns out root of her PND related to breasfeeding issues.

In general - I was lucky enough to be able to not feel guilty about not bf (yes I CHOSE not to) but I did not suffer from PND (v. lucky) nor did I suffer from the 'baby blues' and when I could have time to reflect on the issue I had other more pressing problems (ds screaming with pain with very mouthful of formula milk he tried to swallow). Looking back, now that things have resolved themselves, I wonder was my choice not to bf wise?!!! considering that ds allergy to milk is related to me having asthma - but I refuse to let guilt creep in - I know I'm a bl**dy good mother when it comes down to it.

Tiktok: thanks for the recommending the mobi website. It would have been a real help at the time - to see that it wasn't just me.

Dinny: Thanks!!

Hi

I've read this thread with interest (eye-catching title that I identified with) as I had trouble bf my first child and ended up bottlefeeding from week 3. I felt terrible about the whole sorry business and then got PND. But I worked through all my bad feelings over a good year or so and decided I had done the best I could. I then had trouble with my second child too but felt confident that we would find our own way together - and we did. Only this time there was no guilt or depression to go with it.

ANYWAY, thanks Nobby for raising this topic. I really feel that it would have helped me early on to have a forum to just let it all out and get a lot off my chest... And to discover that there were others out there too who had gone through the same thing. I think the whole thread got sidetracked with the 'can you chose to react differently' thing. I don't want to get into whether i agree with that or not, but would just like to say that sometimes we don't want 'help' as such, we just really need to off-load all the big, heavy feelings we've had. And that makes us feel much, much better.

So Nobby can I offer you a cyberhug too?!

Thanks to Miranda2 for your post. I suffered awfully from sore and cracked nipples and all I heard from EVERY health professional was - "it won't hurt if she's latched on correctly", but I'm 100% sure she was! every midwife that hovered over me whilst i put baby on said she was. This in itself I found a horrible experience, not being the most confident person, i am shy with people until i get to know them and seeing as i had 6! (yes 6!) different midwifes during the course of my pregnancy, it was normally strangers showing up at the door to come and manhadle my breasts.
Before even becoming pregnant I was determined to breastfeed for as long as possible, as I thought then and still do that it is the most natural way of feeding baby BUT I was completely unaware of the reality of how hard (and painful) it would be - given the rosy picture of breastfeeding that is painted.
I did eventually get a midwife who understood what i was going through and suggested introducing formula to give me a break but definately the majority were not understanding enough.
I think more realistic information should be given from Health proffesionals and literature so people realise it can be hard and don't feel so guilty and upset when they aren't successful.
At at very emotial and vulnerable time you should be given all the help you need and not made to feel like a complete failure.