Foremilk/Hindmilk question - is this true or rubbish?

[confusedfirsttimemum]

DD is 4 weeks old has always been a great guzzler when it comes to milk. She drinks very fast, but rarely for more than 10 minutes. She then goes about 2 or 2 1/2 hours between feeds in the day (but 3-4 at night, with a 5 hour stretch every few days).

I feel that she is taking what she needs at each feed. She is very clear when she has finished, spitting out the nipple and snuggling down. Sometimes she will want winding part way through, in which case she spits out the nipple, strains, and then roots for it once I've winded her.

A friend who has been reading the Baby Whisperer says that it says that the hindmilk doesn't start to come through until 15-18 minutes into a feed and that DD must be getting too much foremilk. She seems to think she'll go longer between feeds if she feeds for longer at a time.

This doesn't sound right to me. Surely a guzzly baby will take milk out more quickly and so get what they need more quickly than a lazy sucker? I am not going to change anything (and personally don't see how I can make DD drink when she's clearly finished. If she doesn't suck, nowt is going to happen however long I sit there!)but I'd be interested if anyone knows the actual answer to respond with. It sounds to me as if the book has given average times or something, based on a baby who feeds for about 20-25 minutes. Does anyone know?

I am no expert and there are many on here who I am sure will come along soon but I think you are right. These books are written about the "average" baby. Some babies feed quicker some slower. I have breast fed 3 babies and the first 2 were very fast efficient feeders, usually done in 15 minutes but DD2 is a much slower feeder taking up to 40 minutes sometimes.

I have heard that if your baby is getting too much foremilk she will produce green poos. A breast fed baby getting adequate feeds will be producing yellow poos, will be putting on weight, and be generally contented.

The trouble with relying on a book that states baby care like rules to be followed is that babies are so different not all rules apply!

Sounds like you've got breast feeding sorted

Listen to her when she feeds. You'll be able to hear her swallowing and gulping the foremilk, it comes out quite fast, then when the gulping slows down she will have moved onto thicker milk.

Is she gaining weight and is she a healthy baby?

Don't get bogged down with what 'experts' say, she's your baby, you are the expert on her.

It's bolleaux and Tracey Hogg/Baby Whisperer is renowned for being totally crap on breastfeeding. Sounds like you and you dd have found your own routine just fine, by listening and responding to each other - exactly like it should be

My sils baby never fed for more than 5 minutes, and was ebf for 6 months, he was obviously just a super quick feeder.

Ignore the books, you are doing a brilliant job.

That sounds reassuring, thank you. DD is creating lots of yellow poo and is sitting constantly above the 75th centile for growth when measured, so I don't think she's under nourished!

I have never heard 15-18 minutes and I don't think that is right - well not based on my dc anyway!

As has been said, listen to your baby, if she is gaining, weeing and pooing and is generally progressing as expected then all is likely to be fine.

I hate these prescriptive books about babies, it is not an exact science that can be neatly written down ready for every single baby out there. (People who have read a book and are suddenly experts get up my nose too )

Trust yourself is my opinion!

As others have said, you can hear when they get to the hindmilk. First you gel all suck and no swallowing, then they start gulping with every suck (foremilk has let-down) and then they settle into a nice rhythmic suck-suck-suck swallow as they work at the hind milk. Then they get to the point with it's all suck and no swallow again and you switch to the other side if they're still hungry. Roughly speaking.

And just to illustrate that they are all different, my ds1 was a 45min feeder for months and months, almost to the second lol; ds2 was 10-15 mins from the start and very often less. Neither lost any birth weight by their first weigh in, in fact ds2 gained 3.5 ounces in the first five days on 10 minute feeds!

The Truth About Breastfeeding

There's an excellent section here about fore/hind milk.

It is rubbish, my daughter, now 6 months old, never took longer than 10 minutes to feed and she has grown fine.

I pumped a boob once to actually see when the milk changed from foremilk to hindmilk (I'm a scientist so I tend to experiment to check things out!). About 2/3 of the volume of milk pumped was the richer, creamier hindmilk and the first third or so much paler and runnier like milk mixed with a bit of water. It is the volume not the time that determines when the milk changes from fore to hind. If your LO guzzles like mine then she will get to that point faster.

I have a friend who's son took ages to feed, an hour sometimes and he ended up really below weight so longer feeding isn't better feeding.

All the behaviours you describe are healthy and normal for such a young baby. No way should a month old baby go for longer than 2 hours or so between feeds during the day! My daughter doesn't go more than 3 hours now! And 3-4 hours at night, lucky you. Remember breastmilk is digested really fast and little babies have tiny tummies, go for longer and she will be hungry.

The whole point of breastfeeding is the supply and demand relationship between the baby and mum. Your daughter stops when full just as you describe and forcing a boob back in her mouth won't make her take more. I tried this on my LO when she had teeth in desperation to tank her up during a growth spurt after a whole day of feeding every hour, I got a bitten nipple as a result - you can't force a breastfed baby to take more!

I wish I could throw away 90% of supposed expert books! In the words of Dr Sears "beware of baby trainers". You shouldn't treat a tiny baby like a dog to be trained into 'good' behaviour. You are doing al the right things.

Thanks guys. I knew what I was doing felt right for us but it's so hard when well meaning friends start qouting baby books. DD can eat when she wants, for as long as she wants. Simple really!

quoting - one handed typing during feed!

As everyone says, the Baby Whisperer is very poor indeed on breastfeeding . Himdmilk is not something that 'comes through' after a certain amount of time, and 'too much foremilk' is, largely, a myth.

What a shame this mum is saying things that could undermine someone less confident that you, OP

My dd never bf for longer than 10 mins per feed and my ds was even speedier at just 5 minutes. Both are hale, hearty and hefty so try not to worry- is sounds as though your babe is getting what she needs.

Thanks Tiktok. I feel quite proud you've said that .I didn't feel very confident three weeks or so ago, but I really do feel that DD and I (she's my first) have settled down a bit now. It certainly helps that she's so keen to eat!

The two hour feeds were a bit of a shock though. I'd only ever heard from people who'd bottle fed and whose babies went closer to three hours. Then I spoke to my mum (who breastfed me and my brother) and she said 'oh, yes, they tried to make me do a three hour routine when you were born [late 70's] but you always fed every couple of hours.' Why don't mothers mention these things before you have the baby?

I can see how a baby could have a fore/hind imbalance if you were feeding for only a few minutes for a time and not feeding again for 3 or more hours. But of course you'd have bigger fish to fry than just green poos....starving baby, failure to thrive, hours of screaming.....

By the way this isn't a suggestion just an observation!

If the baby is growing well and looking healthy I don't think you have anything to worry about.

My dd did have fore/hindmilk problems, but that was a special case and due to ill health. The complete opposite of a hearty feeder getting through a meal quickly.