Question re breast / bottle feeding and sleeping

[NellyTheElephant]

I have 3 DCs, the youngest is nearly 6 weeks old. I exclusively bf both the older ones and they both slept through 7pm to 7am by 9 weeks old. I am bf DS too, but unfortunately DS's sleeping is not so good. His basic pattern at the moment is to go down at 7pm wake around 12.30am, then 4am then goes to morning (by this stage the other two would go down at 7pm, then through to about 3am then to morning - so only one wake and the 3am soon got later and later until they slept through). I am on my knees with exhaustion looking after two v hectic pre schoolers and dealing with a couple of night feeds.

DH said to me this morning that maybe we should try giving DS a bottle of formula in the evening in order to get him to sleep longer. I dismissed the suggestion out of hand, but then started to think about it. Would it work? I presume not, but if not, then why does everyone suggest it all the time (I'll be staying with my MIL over the bank holiday and I know that this will be the constant refrain... give him some formula....). If it DOES work, well maybe i should try it as I am sooo tired and do need him to sleep better...... Although I have always bf I am not militantly anti formula - I stopped bf by 6 months with the other two and switched to formula at that stage, but I have no desire to start giving any formula if the whole sleeping better thing is just a myth.

My milk supply is not low in the evenings (if I express so DH can give a bottle I easily get about 6 oz in 5 mins). DS' weight gain is good, he never dropped below birth weight and has gone from just under 25th centile at birth to just over the 50th centile last week. I just don't know what to do as I am SO tired.

Formula may help, it may not. you won't know unless you try.

But I think your first two children were amazing sleepers and not at all typical of most babies. Your DS is doing very very well for his age.

Could you try a dream feed? When you are ready to go to bed, at about 10 - 10.30 maybe, just lift your baby out of the cot and put him to the breast. He will probably take a feed without fully waking up - my Ds does.

It may mean that you only have to feed him once between then and morning.

I sympathise as I have a non sleeping 6 month old and a busy toddler so I know it's hard work - if you have 2 pre-schoolers then even more so - but I think you perhaps need to realign your expectations a bit.

Can you go to bed earlier? Can you get a lie in occasionally if you express a feed?

both my lo's were formula fed and dd only slept through at 5 1/2 months and ds took till 8 months to go through without a feed. At 6 weeks they fed 3 hourly day and night.

It could help - formula is harder to digest than breastmilk so can take longer and therefore baby sleeps longer until they are hungry again.

If you want to introduce a bottle of formula you need to be aware of the risks - it can undermine bf by reducing your supply, and therefore lead to fully FF. Also you will have the risks of formula feeding in general (introducing an allergen and gastroentiritis from contaminated formula etc). I think the risks are low but you should be aware of them before you make the decision.

Sorry, meant to add, if it doesn't work and you end up with bf compromised, how do you think you will feel about that?

Bloody hell, Nelly, your kids were alarmingly good sleepers.
My ds was ff and slept through at 6 mths. This was EARLY amongst my group of friends who were a mixture of bf and ff. The ffers did tend to sleep longer than the bfed, but only by about an hour if that.

This study shows that you get 30 minutes less sleep if you introduce one evening bottle of formula to an exclusively breastfed baby.

You don't mention how you currently night parent ? If you are not doing already would you consider co-sleeping at night or bringing the baby's cot into your room ?

HTH Being tired and looking after children is not fun and I only have one baby and one toddler. Hats off to you coping with three children

I am bfing and DD (6 weeks) has one formula feed in the night, so that DP and I can take turns. She doesn;t sleep any longer than the breastfeed at all - but it gives me a break! I have found no probs with milk supply, but that's just IME.

Sorry that should of read 45 minutes less sleep.

DS2 15 weeks is now exclusively breastfed from 5-6 weeks after a few weeks of enforced supplementing. DS1 was formula fed. DS2 seems to me to sleep pretty well although I do feed him before I go to bed myself about midnight and he has started to wake up for a feed at 4/5 most nights.

Even though dp nearly always gave ds1 night time bottles, I frequently woke up and was awake for quite a while. Now I have to do the bf but I don't have to get up and come downstairs and it makes me feel sleepy so I go straight back afterwards. That to me is a big drawback if it doesn't work.

I can see why you feel tired but I doubt that introducing formula will work - it does sound like you were very lucky first two times and dc3 is sleeping qutie well at 6 weeks.

flippin eck thats one great sleeper if you ask me....

sorry...

That sleeping is amazing! DS does that pattern NOW and he is almost 10 months old...

I can't really see that formula would improve things, and how would you feel if it didn't - important to consider I think.

I would think you need to be careful with supply. If you give him formula at bedtime, will you give more formula if he wakes in the night or will you then BF? You could end up with a huge stretch of time with no BF.

I don't think you realise what good sleepers you have. your first two were too good to be tru, and your 3rd is amazing my dd was bottlefed and got up in the night more than your bf ds, I wouldn't introduce artificial milk your milk is so much better.

Formula will not make any difference. Your expectations are very high because of your previous experience. My first 2 were also great sleepers. DS3 did not sleep though till 8 months.

You are knackered because you have more than one child. I bet you run around doing housework and looking after the other kids too. What you need is some help so that you can get an early night or nap in the afternoon. Is there anyone around who can do that for you?

My four year old has rarely slept for 12hrs solid in his whole life . 12hrs solid for a baby so very young is highly unusual.

I think you may find formula isn't the magic solution to your tiredness but rather how to juggle your three kids! I am sleep deprived with a 4 week old DC4 looking after a 2, 4 and 6 year old. I am feeding at least 7 times each day which is roughly 3-hourly during the day and 4-hourly at night which means (typically) one night waking. Last night I was up lots more feeding at 2am, 4am, 5.30am and 6.30am after my usual 10pm feed. Needless to say I am a bit more tired than usual today! She obviously is having a growth spurt .

I am amazed at your youngest's sleep pattern and weight gain - your milk must be serious gold top stuff! I thought I did ok with my babies which I have so far managed to get sleeping through from the 10pm feed to 7am by around 10-12 weeks. Am hoping for a similar achievement this time round too but for now, as my baby is still tiny, I have resigned myself to being woken quite a lot once night time falls. I find managing my expectations is actually the most powerful aid to getting through these early weeks and, in fact, it helps me really enjoy this precious time! It'll pass soon I am sure -hang in there!

Thanks all. On reflection I think maybe my expectations are too high - I always knew I was pretty lucky with DDs and just thought DS would be the same. Truth is my exhaustion does have a lot more to do with the older two than the baby. I don't want to wish the baby days away especially as this will probably be my last but it is seriously tough at the moment and I am perhaps overly focussed on his sleeping rather than just going with the flow. I think I will hold off on the formula (and put up with MIL's 'helpful advice' this w/e) as I would be v upset if it somehow compromised bf, so I suppose that's the answer I needed really.

Starlight, unfortunately MIL is not exactly hands on with helping! On the few occasions I have left one or more of the little ones with MIL while staying with her, e.g. to pop out for an hour while DD was having a nap (so not exactly taxing for her!) she forgot she was meant to be watching DD and went out to walk the dogs leaving DD alone in the house - luckilty in her cot, so safe! When we all went out to supper leaving the children with a babysitter she completely forgot their existence and locked up the house and set the alarm so the minute the babysitter got up to change the TV channel the alarm went off and all hell broke loose. She lost the 2 yr old (who escaped out of the door of a supermarket) and even when I specifically asked her to stay in the sitting room with the DDs for 10 mins while I went to prepare their tea in the kitchen (as there was an electric bar fire on which is pretty dangerous with toddlers and crawlers) I came back to find the phone had rung and she had gone off to sort something else out. So although i love her dearly and she is great fun, I'm not sure I'll be asking her to watch them this w/e!!

I know all of this will be over soon and I'll look back through rose tinted glasses and no doubt feel broody again (ha ha!!), i'm just feeling the strain at the moment!