Breastfeeding/reflux/overfeeding? help!!!

[happynappies]

My ds is 8 weeks old, and for the last four weeks has been being sick - lots. At four weeks old he was checked out in hospital in case it was pyloric stenosis, and the dr said it wasn't, and diagnosed reflux. I have found the last four weeks a real nightmare!

He feeds every three hours apart from when he feeds every two hours or every hour. He doesn't cry in pain all the time, and doesn't vomit after every feed, but when he does throw up we all have to get changed - there seems to be a massive amount. He's exclusively bf, and although I try to be relaxed about it, knowing that he's going to be really sick is somehow really stressful, I'm on edge all the time. Hes on the 98th centile, and seems to keep putting on weight, so the GP isn't concerned. Could it be that he is over-eating? He only seems to feed for a relatively short period - 7-10 minutes on average, although in the early evening he will stay latched on for longer.

I have noticed that he seems very 'mucousy' at night, snuffling and laboured breathing reaching a peak at about 5am, when he will inevitably projectile vomit after a feed.

I've been propping his cot up, and use a wedge-shaped cushion to support him when he's lying on his back for nappy changes etc. I keep him upright after feeds, and wear him in a sling as often as I can.

The GP/health visitor don't want to know because he is putting on weight and following his centile well, but I'm more stressed than I can remember. With dd, who I bf for 2.5 years, when she was distressed I just fed her. It doesn't seem nearly so simple with ds - if anything feeding him seems to make matters worse, and when he cries I'm never sure whether to feed him or do something else.

Can anyone tell me anything to help me here... I really feel fed up. I feel like I should be enjoying the precious moments of ds's babyhood, but I'm wishing it away and feeling anxious all the time. He rarely settles and cries a lot, which is just wearing me down, and I'm sure I'm physically tired from getting little sleep at night and from all the feeding. Sorry to moan - just so fed up at the moment!

Forgot to add - feeding dd lying down at night was one of the things that was a life-saver when I was exhausted last time, but that is out of the question with ds - it makes him sick and have to keep him propped up. Also, with dd I used to be able to put her into her cot after a certain amount of time had elapsed between feeds and she'd have a nap, but with ds he just seems to cry all the time. I know they are all different and I shouldn't compare dd and ds, but I can't help feel so negative because I thought second time around everything would be easier...

happynappies - you check all the boxes for over generous milk supply....and this is often easily dealt with

You can call any of the bf helplines and talk about it, or else check the archives here at mumsnet and look up 'block feeding' or 'block nursing'.

Hope this helps.

Haven't heard of that but I will definately look into it, thank you for the advice Tiktok. Can I ask which boxes I tick? Thankyou!

happynappies:

large baby gaining weight on high centile: check

baby throwing up massive amounts: check

spells of v. freq feeding: check

periods of misery and distress unrelated to any obvious health or feeding problem : check

Other boxes would be you feeling full all the time, a powerful let down which sometimes seems to overwhelm the baby.

Hope this helps, again!

Sounds the same problems that I had which 18months down the line turned out to be a lactose intolerance. Baby was bottle fed, huge amounts of projectile vomit, 98th centile and nobody concerned as putting on weight OK. maybe worth looking into.

My first child had similar problems. She fed almost constantly and threw up in between. She would not be laid down and so spent most of her time in a sling. I spent months carrying her and pushing the buggy just in case she let me set her down. Sleeping on her back at night was never going to happen so I put her on her tummy and felt guilty for it. She did cry in pain and vomit after most feeds though. This probably won't help you for now but it honestly will get better. I can't even remember when, but things certainly improved when she was sitting in the pushchair instead of lying in the pram which was at about six months. We tried Baby Gaviscon and it seemed to help a little but it was so traumatic to get it into her that it didn't happen every feed.

my dd was just like this, it got better as she got older and was definitely
over by 6 months. i did block feeding (which helped) and also just tried not to worry
about it.

in the first months the sofa got washed and i got soaked many
times each day but it quickly got better.
she also spent a lot of time in the sling which was a lifesaver.

she used to want feeding again after she had thrown up, but i found that
waiting at least an hour before feeding her again was better. if she went
in the sling instead and calmed down she often slept.

hello

i could have posted this - my baby is ten weeks and is okay ish in the day - some sick after feeds but at night makes chokey noises, weird swallowing gurgles and sounds like she is chewing. She was v sick last night after her feed and it all sounds the worst at about 4am. She also squirms unbelievably in her cot after feeds - seems so uncomfy.

We are so so tired too!

I have just bought a wedge for her cot and a bumbo seat for upright sitting.

Hope we get some answers! sending much sympathy x

Thanks for all the responses. I'm trying block feeding today - every four hours, and have stopped using Infacol as I'm sure it was actually making matters worse. I'm still not sure what the noises in the early hours of the morning are caused byn. Nadssss that is exactly it - choking, lip-smacking, sounds like he is drowning - so noisy and sounds horribly uncomfortable. He has barely laid down today. In sling at the moment and comfortably, but so often 'fretting' with a kind of high pitched squealy sound. Am wondering about the lactose intolerance as well... should I try cutting dairy out of my diet then? I suppose it won't hurt to give it a go.

Lactose intolerance....no use cutting out dairy in your diet as lactose is present in all milks, including breastmilk

I wonder if Fitzy meant cows milk protein intolerance? LI in babies is very, very rare indeed (though they can sometimes acquire it, temporarily, after a stomach bug).

It's not easy to cut dairy out totally. There are many foods with milk products in them.

Hope things get better.

Sounds unlikely that it is cows milk protein intolerance then? I'll keep going with the block feeding and see if there are any improvements. Feel better knowing there is something I can try. Thanks again!

Hi my 5 1/2 month old DS has severe reflux GORD. Started about 2 weeks with choking (which he stopped breathing a few times with) major irritibility, not sleeping, violent hiccups, vomitting, gulping noises, congestion, blocked nose, coughing, diarreah. He was diagnosed in hospital due to the choking/going blue. Gaviscon made it worse, he is now on Omeprazole and Domperidone, helps abit about 50% less irritable but he is very hard work all day long!

I am bf too and have always fed every 1.5-2 hours, he has always gained weight really well, probably as he feeds so much and often swallows the sick back down. Good news is that at about 10 weeks/11 lbs he began sleeping 6-8 hrs a night, makes things much better to cope with. DS loves movement so I got him a hammock to sleep him, worth the money for the extra sleep. We got NO sleep at all at night before then, horrible.

I tried dairy and soya free diet for 4 weeks, blockfeeding etc. I do have fast let down still but DS is sick even with formula and on purrees (he takes his meds in this). Worth trying all these though.

I had twins before him and they were a doddle compared to this so I sympathise. It's hard to enjoy it when you are wanting them to grow out of it, like wishing time away. I would insist on a referral to Paeds through your GP. They can then try meds. While you are waiting for an apt you could try dairy free etc as that really can work. If there is any scary choking/breathing etc go to A and E, you will see a Paed right away. Good luck, hope he is better soon.

This book is fab here Really reassured me, covers choking, congestion, milk allergy etc etc.

This book is fab here Really reassured me, covers choking, congestion, milk allergy etc etc.

Hi HN

Just to let you know my plan of action: after another terrible night we are going to a cranial osteopath today. If that doesn't work i am going to cut out dairy and caffeine next week.

I LOVE dairy! Misery.

I'll let you know how it goes

Hi Nadssss please do let me know how you get on. I wondered about caffeine - I don't have too much but chocolate is my weakness!! I've ordered the book jellybeans recommended in the hope that I'll be a bit more informed about it. We actually had a better night last night, and he's sleeping at the moment which is almost unheard of - but it tends to go like this though. Just when you think you might have turned a corner, wam! Back to projectile vomiting and not settling and crying all the time... Good luck with your cranial osteopath visit, looking forward to hearing the results!

Hi happynappies - my DD1 was sick loads, about a hundred times a day up to 9 months old. She kept putting on weight and was otherwise happy so we were told it was 'just one of those things' and that it would pass, and it did. But it was very stressful at the time, with all the changing, washing and vomit soaked muslins. She fed every 3 hours, day and night, and I didn't really try to space it out because I reasoned that if she'd just been sick, she was probably hungry again. Having said that, I didn't put her back on the boob straight after a vomit. She was also very noisy at night - grunting / snorting / shuffling / screeching. DD2 is also noisy in the same way but not sick (yet, fingers crossed, she's only a week old) so not sure it's related. Good luck - it will pass!

Hi! my appointment was at 11am and the osteopath did what seemed to be a sort of massage of her body and head - small movements. She has been asleep since except for a couple of mini feeds! 5 hours!

I am feeling tentatively positive but also really stressed that all this sleep now means she will have a really bad night.

I shall report back tomorrow.

my baby had very similar problems. I cut out all dairy and it got better or so it seemed to me, my husband was skeptical but i think he just missed dairy dinners. it's not so hard. you just have to eat very simple things and drink rice or soy milk. i chose rice milk as soy can also be an allergen and i know rice is one of the easier things for babies to handle. i also avoided caffeine, carbonated beverages, tomatoes and salmon -- not one of the usuals but she screamed in pain every time i ate it. we also held her upright for 30 minutes after each feed. this meant twice in the middle of the night, so each feed took an hour. She was also very mucousy and being on her back made it worse, and made it very difficult for her to sleep. so, against all sids advice i put her to sleep on her stomach. (i'm not recommending it, just letting you know what i did so don't everyone write in and criticise me please.) but at the same time i bought a babysense breathing monitor to monitor her breathing(70pounds). it sounds an alarm if there is no baby movement for more than 20 seconds.
i too had a fast and voluminous milk supply with one breast being particularly fast. i took to only feeding her from slow breast at night and also from fast in the day only after i'd pumped it down to halfway full. yes this all took tons of time. thankfully, my husband took care of one night feed which was so nice as he had to get up and go to work. but the light at the end of the tunnel: as if like clockwork, it got better at 13 weeks, and she was a 36.5 week gestation baby. 12 weeks really is a magical age. i'd booked a cranial osteopathy appt but she was better by the time i actually got to it at 14 weeks. she's still a bit spitty-uppy but no more than most babies according to my cousin, a pediatrician whose babysat for her. she can eat from either breast although she still prefers slow as she had to pull off fast if she wants the milk to stop coming. and, i can feed her laying down in bed. so hang in there. it will get better. and maybe you'll lose the babyweight by giving up dairy! i tried to look at it that way.

Out from thread lurking...

I wish I had known about this problem when DS was tiny. We went through GP appointments, has-he-got-reflux, cranial osteopathy, everything I could think of to sort his constant tummy ache, coughing and choking, throwing up, sleeplesness. Nothing helped, and no-one was interested in the worries of a first time mum with a HUGE, healthy, breast-fed baby. No-one seemed inclined to believe me when I said I was sure my baby had tummy ache all the time. I only found out about over supply / overactive let down / too much foremilk / lactose overload from Kellymom, way after he was weaned. And we were classic - if I was a cow they'd be breeding milk heards from me...

But knowledge has come in time for DD - thanks to this thread I'm going to be trying block feeding until my shoot-it-across-the-room let down improves, the leaking becomes managable, and I'm not half drowning my baby in breastmilk each feed.

I hope you all find the solutions you need - my grateful thanks to all the knowledgable folk here, esp tiktok.

hi HN

Wellll we had the best night in ages! She went down happily at 7pm (despite sleeping for 5 hours in the pm) woke at 1130 and 3am for a feed and slept until 630am - unheard of!

She did grizzle a bit after both nighttime feeds with coughing and clearing her throat but i didn't go to her and she settled herself within about 30-45 mins - which again is pretty good for us.

I feel like a new woman this morning!

Go to a cranial osteopath! I also wedges her cot up at her head end last night after you mentioned it so i guess it could be that too.... she also went in the living room for first time so we didn't hear every snuffle (the living room is 10 feet away - teeny flat). Prob a combination of everything...

Good luck - how was your night?

Hi - am cautiously positive... He cluster fed a lot until 9pm then woke up once at about 2am and again at 5am - lots of snuffles from about 4am, but I let him be and that seemed to work. Hasn't been as sick, so perhaps the block feeding has been helpful. He's had his jabs today (8 weeks) so I'm prepared for an unsettled few days. Great news for you Nadssss, the cranial osteopath sounds really interesting. What exactly do they do? My dh is a bit sceptical, but I'm at that stage where I'm willing to give anything a try, and have heard lots of people recommend it. Keep me updated how things are going!

I just wanted to write in, happynappies, to say I feel for you. I had very similar baby, masses of puking, fed all the time, I had an overwhelming milk supply and I couldn't work out whether I shld feed my ds more often or less often or what. Seven months in everything has got better but the awful truth is I've no idea what really helped and what didn't. I tried all sorts from cutting out dairy to block feeding to cranial osteopathy and a million other things people recommended. some days I'd think I'd have it sussed and he'd seem to be a bit less pukey, other days he'd be soaking several babygroes in a matter of hours, but ultimately he got better, with weaning he stopped puking and in many ways i wish i'd tried to worry less about it. it's so hard to enjoy your baby when they're covering themselves in milk every time you take your eye of them but ultimately as long as they're relatively happy and putting on weight, there's not much point worrying. If it's any consolation, I was convinced I had the most sickky baby ever. I have not yet witnessed a baby that sicked up as much as mine did, but he's a healthy seven month old little boy now and although it's only really stopped in teh last month, it already seems like aeons ago. Best of luck with it and I hope things improve.

Am really not sure what they do - the guy explained it but i was so so tired at the time and i just can't remember now - it was all very gentle though - feeling her spine and tummy and ribs and then her head and the base of her neck. She got a bit upset when the head bit happened.

Last night she was up at 1.30 for a feed (after going down around 8pm) and then got up at 6 for he day - again unheard of!

My DP was a bit sceptical too - and i was worried because it was on my head that he went - dp said (understandably) he was worried about someone touching the baby's head etc - but i think he is now convinced.

even if it doesn't last, it has been so good to have 2 good night's sleep. do try it if you can convince your dp.

i've put off the jabs until 12 weeks as i can't bear things to be more unsettled than they alraedy are - how did your lo react?

This sounds just like my DD. She's 6 weeks and although she sleeps relatively well for the first part of the night (after cluster feeding until 9), after her middle of the night feed she is so uncomfortable - snuffling, grunting, groaning, hiccuping etc. It can take a couple of hours to settle her, which at 3am isn't much fun, especially when DD1 gets up at 6.30. I have cut out dairy, which does seem to have made a difference, although not a massive one. Have seen 3 GPs and they all suggested reflux ('silent' as she doesn't vomit) but I am not convinced. Can't get her to take any medication because she gags and vomits if anything goes in her mouth apart from a nipple.