Third attempt at BF - give me everything you've got

[TheNatty]

ok this is my third baby that i desperatly want to bf (and self wean if at all possible) having failed twice with my ds and dd.

ds - failed due to the fact he would not suckle, would rear away from me if the nipple went anywhere near him. tried for 3 days then gave him a bottle which he took straight to, providing he was fed proped up with no one touching him. (under investigation currently for autism, which explains the not wanting to be touched/held)
so not my fault, however suffered terrible guilt over it.

dd - born when ds was just 13 months, fed every 30 mins for 10 mins (so about 20 mins between feeds) day and night for 2 weeks before i had to introduce formula as ds demanded alot of attention and i wasnt getting any sleep at all. DH was away at the time so no support to take ds out or anything.
more formula i introduced less she bf, so supply dwindled, i fed more formula to compensate.. so dried up.

ok this time! i have my DH home full time as he is on summer hols from uni when baby due (july). ds will be 3 and dd will be 2.

how can i

1. help get the inital latch if this baby is reluctant like my ds (expecting a boy again)

1. get my supply right up so baby feeds for longer and less frequently

and ANY thing you can think of that might help, however small..

DH thinks i am worrying myself over something which has been out of my control twice, and that if im meant to bf i will.

but if i had known about supply/demand stuff and tops ups with dd, i MAY have not made the mistakes with her (iuswim)

sorry looooong post here, but wanted to give all the information i could lol!

TIA guys

I'm no expert but I think it's a really good idea to start thinking about it and preparing now. I failed with ds1 and had a very rocky start with ds2 but have now established exclusive breastfeeding.

Skip my story if you want for suggestions at the end.

ds1 lost too much weight and was taken back into hospital where they basically put him on formula with a bit of expressed milk, but I don't do well with expressing. I believe latch/posititioning/technique not supply was our problem. I didn't get much advice from anyone who really knew about bfing while in hospital and by the time we got out my confidence was shattered and while I found people who could have helped me things had just gone too wrong by then.

ds2 had several formula feeds in the first few days because I wasn't in a state after an emcs under general anaesthetic to give him his first feed for some hours, and on day 3 had to have tests involving toxic dyes and couldn't feed him for the rest of that day. I kept asking for help from the hospital's breastfeeding counsellor.

He then lost a scary amount of weight by day 5 and even more that day/night and we ended up being readmitted to paediatrics. The postnatal ward's breastfeeding counsellor came up to see me each day and I managed to learn to feed him so that his weight stabilised on exclusive breastfeeding, but he wasn't regaining weight after 6 days, so we were pushed on to top ups on day 12 and let out on home leave 3 days later. However, the bfc gave me a feeding plan which enabled me with persistence to maintain my supply as well as using top ups, but it was extremely hard and I'm sure that if I hadn't had my heart really set on bfing and read a lot of advice on mumsnet and known something about what went wrong first time round, I wouldn't have.

I phased out the top ups and have been bfing exclusively since ds was about 4 weeks - he'll be 11 weeks on Tuesday.

So my suggestions - find out what specialist breastfeeding help and support is available in your area - support groups, counsellors and peer supporters - NHS or volunteer (NCT, Breastfeeding Network, La Leche League). Make it very clear to hospital staff and other health professionals that you want to bf this time and ask for support. Some will be better than others, but keep asking. Come back to Mumsnet when you get a chance and you need to for advice, there's some good advice and emotional support here. And I hope to hear what happens to you.

Good luck.

Natty, you have worked out what went pear shaped the last few times which will be really helpful. Your dh being around will also make a huge difference. Think about getting a sling too to carry and feed.
Check out the breastfeeding sites and post a lot on here as and when you needd.

Sounds like you have a really positive and realsitic frame of mind.I'm sure this will help you cravck it.

Great advice already. My early baby was a light sucker and I worried about the latch all the time, until I let her find it herself. My midwives here in Singapore all take the 'dive bomb' latch approach here which really did my head in. Everyone saying my nipples were too flat and then trying to wodge all my huge areola into a 4.9lb baby girl's mouth....

So letting the baby find his or her latch worked for me

I still have weight worries so I feed her every chance I get -- which means feeding every 2-3 hours with 2 or 3 nightfeeds even at 6 months... probably not ideal with 2 other kids! Sorry!

A round cushion worked for me as well -- meant I had two hands free to read.

Don't skip the nutritious night feeds. I co-sleep which makes it easier (er, sometimes) and I lie down and feed her (don't bother to wind her either at night)

Lots of DVDs for night feeds

Good luck

Oh, another BIG piece of advice from me

Unless you have to (baby in intensive care or something) DO NOT PUMP until breastfeeding is established, which can take 8 weeks.

I WISH I'd never unwrapped the box. Created all sorts of problems and worries about supply. And felt horrid doing it and meant I spent 40 mins feeding/40 mins expressing and then in 40 mins having to feed again. Quick road to insanity.

just quick as haven't got time - I've bf 4 babies now. Noene of them fed for more than 5 minutes. Midwives took very dim view, you must feed them longer, 5 minutes is not enough blah blah, but when they weoghted baby before and after feed, they had indeed guzzled the "right" amount, so don't get pressured into 'they must have 30 minutes each breast' or some such nonesence.

also if baby has had say 30 minutes on the breast, then 20 minutes later is crying agai, he almost certainly isn't hungry. A big mistake I made with ds1 was to put to breat every time he cried, in the mistaken belief I was 'feeding on demand', but it didn't help either of us.

big part of successful bf imo is self confidence.

I think the "support" I got with dc 4 would have put me off if I was doing it for 1st time. They were convinced it wasn't going well and trying to intervene too much (dd lost a lot of weight at 1st as she didn't feed at all for 48 hours) they wanted to do top up feeds, make me feed longer. It was only because I felt very sure I knew what I was doing and could do it that I felt confident enough to challenge them & stick to my guns. Sometimes too much support can also be undermining or damage your confidence.

Confidence is the key imo

thanks guys, will be stocking up on sticker books, dvds etc.
am planning on co-sleeping as with dd it was the only way to get ANY sleep!

good advice about the pump, i might just put the money away for now and order it once things have settled a bit.

I think it's very easy to get into a I've failed and now I'm not going to fail approach to breastfeeding which in fact makes things a bit more complicated and more tense. You did not "fail", it is not a competition.
On the other hand you now want to enjoy breastfeeding number 3. Put the past behind, don't use it as a basis for any comparisons.
Just think "this is my baby and I can feed him - it is what was nature intended, and I will try my best to respond to his/her cues, to the best of my ability.
I don't think it means destroying yourself with lack of sleep, you might need someone to cuddle baby, take it away for you occasionally, so you can take a break and rest. I think it means making the space in your life to encourage the feeding relationship, and it sounds as if you have made brilliant arrangements.
This new baby knows nothing about your previous feeding experiences, and you have the chance to start completely afresh with it with all the "positive" benefit of hindsight (discount negative hindsight!), you wish you hadn't given up, you know you were completely overtired with no 2, you know you need lots of support.
Also, difficult as it seems to juggle feeding new baby continuously and looking after other little ones, there will be a point (I put it at 4 months when it is serious timesaver, your hands will be free to cuddle toddlers while baby feeds, no time spent making up feeds scrubbing bottles out, instant night comforting. So you don't need to feel you are short changing other los.

Best of luck

I agree about the confidence.
I think the baby will give you confidence if you let him/her. It is a feedback loop. You know the baby relies on you for food, which gives you warm confident feelings, as you know you can give the baby food that he needs - how fantastic, (as well as all the other things he needs, cuddling, closeness, talk, your face which he has immaterial of whether he is breast or bottlefed).
Suddenly it will appear very simple and you won't have to wonder what to do or how to do it, just like you probably know exactly how to comfort a screaming toddler without it being explained to you.

Another piece of advice. If you're not sure about it all and need some tips, a breastfeeding counsellor coming to your home and watching you feed from beginning to end and checking out your holds, latch, and giving advice about 'how long', 'how often' while seeing you, your baby (it's often forgetten their an individual too) and your sofa/chairs/bed and wotnot.

I paid quite a lot for mine here in Singapore -- but OH, worth her bloody weight in gold, just for the reassurance (she was an ex-UK health visitor turned lactation consultant/doula). I was actually doing it right but didn't know and had no frame of reference.

I think knowing where to turn when you do hit a roadblock and feeling confident that you can solve any b/feeding problem without getting het up about weighings and a hospital setting can be critical to establishing good breastfeeding.

That said, 6 months on of breastfeeding every two hours and sometimes it still does my head in. All the best

And if it does all go tits up (as it were) please don't frame it in terms of 'failing'.

Yes, formula is a second-class foodstuff but many a first-class mother needs to use it for a variety of reasons.

But I have a feeling you'll be a pro!

Oh, sorry three in a row.

You asked about getting supply up. You may have to basically accept that your other child will have to take a back seat for a few weeks (because once supply is up there, you'll find it alot easier). You need to feed feed feed and in the night as well.

I worried about emptying each breast (I had no engorgement or leaking or much fullness so convinced myself I was doing it wrong) but to be honest I was feeding so much they must have emptied at each time. A rule I use now is offer one, leave until the baby seems like it's had most of it (breaking off, not doing long pausing sucks) and then offer the next (which in the early weeks may not be all that long or they may be asleep...) If you've not left it too long, use that last breast for the next feed. And so on.

I think if women are prepared for 6-8 weeks of pretty full-on feeding and it then falling into an easier pattern, it's easier to accept. Short term pain, long term gain, and all that.

Dorisbonkers I LOVE your phrase about formula being a second class foodstuff and first class mothers sometimes having to use it. There is so much guilt about formula feeding - we should be grateful for modern developments helping us out!

Sounds to me like the breastfeeding was successful second time. Frequent small feeds are normal and healthy. Your circumstances meant that you couldn't continue the grueling schedule last time, but this time with realistic expectations, DH on hand, and an older ds you might find you can carry on for as long as you want to.

Good luck!