14 week old BF DS, snacks all day and all night, starting the 3 hour feed routine tomorrow...

[mppaw]

DS is 14 weeks old and we have basically reached a stage whereby I can not go on like this any longer. He snacks day and night, he feeds probably every hour to an hour and a half, 24 hours a day.
Have been reading the baby whisperer and looking at old threads on here so am going to try the 3 hour routine. This is the route I am going to take to try gain some sanity back as am SO exhausted that I really dont feel I can continue breast feeding, despite really wanting to.
I have a DD who is 3, a DP and a house to run so need to feel and act more human than I currently am !!!

Any mnetters who have been in similar situations and can offer advice and support ?

Please dont flame me if you are anti-routine, maybe just by pass this thread.

Thx.

hmm well not sure if I should post or not.

I have been in similar situation, but i'm also not hot on routines

fwiw I think what your son is doing is normal. and I really DO know how mind-numbingly horrific sleep deprivation is.
I had the exact same set-up as you only my 3 yr old was ds1 rather than a dd. ds2 fed at least every 45mins-1.5hrs for about the first 6 or 7 months of his life :S

I don't really do routines because I think that demand feeding a baby is best for them. But i'm not anti them per se if you can make them work for you.
I do think it might make it harder for you though, because what are you going to do when he is screaming for food? instead of being able to feed and calm him down you're going to be spending an hour trying to stop him crying instead.

anyway, I'll give you some advice that helped me when I was in the same situation:
1.) get a really good sling. I used a moby wrap. DS was much calmer in it, and I could feed him in it.
2.) go to bed really early. housework comes second to your sanity. I was often in bed by 8pm or earlier. DP brought ds2 to me for feeds, or we co-slept for the first part of the evening so I could get some extra rest
3.) ask for help! call on friends/family/neighbours/anyone to come and give you a hand, or take DD down the park, or even to take DS out for a little walk so you can get some time with the other child or to yourself.
4.) remember that decisions made when you are at the end of your tether and horribly sleep-deprived may not be the kind of decision you would make normally. So, think it through and discuss with your partner. It may feel like an enforced routine or giving up breastfeeding are the only options, but they won't necessarily be the silver bullet you're hoping for

but i've waffled on now. I hope you don't mind me replying with stuff that you might not have wanted to hear. But you know this is doable, and it will pass and somewhen down the line you do look back and think "meh, it wasn't so bad" lol

Hey, I am new to mums net and wanted to know what DS and DC are?????

My little one seems to be always hungry too, he sleeps well at night around 7 hours, and feeds as soon as he wakes up, he rarely goes for more than an hour between feeds and is often sucking his fists and will normally latch back on after a feed, which may be for comfort i suppose! i sometimes worry if hes getting enough milk but think he must be if he sleeps through evry night?

Please someone tell me what DS and DC are??? lol xx

Thanks for taking the time to reply TTY.
Totally agree with you re making decisions when feeling really really low, but have discussed this with DP and at the moment I think it is a reasonable route to explore.
My main priority at the moment is to continue to breast feed and we think if this means trying to enfore a routine of some sort then I want to try this.
I am not going to drag him out to 3 hours from the word go, but just take every half hour as it comes, and hopefully we can reach 2 maybe 2 and a half hours between feeds without too much stress.
But who knows, only time will tell, but at the moment I have everything crossed that me and DS can become a bit happier with our lives as I know he is so un happy and so am I.

Thanks again for your story and advice, it is really appreciated. THx.

DS - darling son
DC - darling children
DD - darling daughter

I started using the Baby Whisperer routine when my dd was three months old, and magically it did actually work! I used it as a framework rather than a hard and fast three hour rule, and it seemed to really help dd to establish a proper 'napping'pattern. Doing the activity first then putting them down to sleep also broke her habit of feeding to sleep which was helpful long-term. See how you go with it - you might be pleasantly surprised!! I'd still say I bf on demand, just altered the structure of our day somewhat to save my sanity! Good luck!

mppaw Has this 'snacking' just begun or has it been like this since birth.

If you've been looking at past threads on the subject you may be aware that I am anti-routine. People have different reasons for being against routines, and some suggest that it can be harmful as you are not listening and tune with your baby.

MY reason for being against routine is because in these early weeks it adds a burden to the mother that can cause a lot of unnecessary upset and stress. Your baby will change many many times over the next few months and trying to keep some level of control over it will be impossible and may lead you to despair. Far better imo to embrace it and see what YOU can do to enable you to cope with it, rather than trying to change a baby who doesn't understand the whats and whys of what you are trying to do.

If I can offer any words of wisdom it is to suggest that you keep a diary of feeding. It may be possible to identify a long period of sleep that you can use to your advantage (either sleep yourself or if you must, clean).

I would also suggest that you hand your LO over to your DP as soon as he comes in from work and go to bed for the night, having him brought to you only for feeds. If you went to bed at say 7pm and got up at 7am, that would be 12 hours of interupted sleep which may in all be closer to 8 hours sleep. Even if you only did this once every 2 or 3 nights you'll feel better for it.

Understand that this is just a short phase in the grand scheme of things and you will get your evenings and your uninterupted sleep back in the not to distant future.

hth

yes i have with dc5 on the advice of the HV

i started 3 hourly and everything went better quite quickly

he became easily my easiest baby

good luck!

My dd would have fallen asleep on the boob and snacked often, I think but I used to just make sure she fed for a bit longer by giving her a little nudge/tickle/blowing gently on her face. This would keep her going for longer between feeds. So in a way I suppose I was imposing a routine by making sure she filled up when she was ready for a feed rather than dozing off.

HTH

agree posh

i had to really tickle soles of feed rub head etc

sorry pink spotty mistook you for another wellies!

Looking back, he has been snacking since birth, I put him down to being an efficient feeder!! But to be honest I think I have got us to this point, by shoving my boob in his mouth at any noise he made, this in turn has led to me still not knowing what he wants when he crys. It is almost like a check list I run thru, is he hungry, no, is he dirty, is he tired etc ? I really think I should know what my son wants, but I dont and it really upsets me.

The past few days have been really low, I have questioned my abilities as a mother and I just can not see an end to all this. At the moment I want to continue breast feeding and I am hoping this will help me to continue.

Thanks happynappies, good to hear a good story. I like what you have said about tweaking things rather than setting things in stone re 3 hours etc.

How old was DC5 suziseis when you started this ?

mppaw noooooooooo

Please do not question yourslef

didn;t you see my post? i was like you with dc5 - should have known better!!!

you are doing the best you can - really really well

you do need rest and imo the snacking is exhausting

3 hourly give or take will soon leave you feeling better!

cross posts suziseis.
I try not to be to hard on myself, but is hard when I feel like I dont know my son, let alone what he wants !!
Am also fed up of DD seeing me in tears at least 4/5 times a week and asking me what is wrong and sometimes getting upset herself.

Something has got to change for all our sakes.

Chicks, am not abandoning this thread, just need some much needed sleep so off to bed. Doubt I will be back on til tom night, so any more positive stories or vibes are welcome.

iirc he was 8 weeks

dc6 was fed on routine from the start

9 months on the whole experience has drained me much less!

sleep tight x

Thanks Suziseis, will give an update tomorrow...fingers crossed.

mppaw, can't really advise but sending you good vibes I know it is hard when they are like this. My DS has calmed down now and feeds only once a night which makes a big difference and means I don't mind feeding on demand during the day nearly so much. This happened quite suddenly, at around 3 months, so fingers crossed that it will for yours too.

good grief mppaw you could be me! I spent all yesterday in tears saying exactly the same things as you. I don't know what ds cries mean, and can't tell what he wants most of the time, so usually I end up feeding him. As a result I feel like a terrible mother because he is crying and I don't understand why and I feel I should be able to read him by now. he usually feeds about every 1.5 hours, but most of the time snacks rather than having a long feed - I have no idea how much milk he actually gets at these feeds. He is a terrible sleeper - try as I might I can't get him to sleep in the day, except for the odd occassion when he conks out due to exhaustion I think.

I have the baby whisperer but don't really understand how to make it work as I can't get him to sleep!

I realise this isn't very helpful for you but it made me feel better seeing your post so maybe hearing you are not alone will make you feel better.

good luck with whatever you decide to try - and for what it's worth you sound like a lovely Mum to me

Eggybrokenoff - when I started using the baby whisperer it was the EASY thing that helped me to get my dd to start having naps. If you have the book you'll know what its all about - I was previously feeding her and feeding her and feeding her in an attempt to get her to sleep, then as soon as I lowered her into her moses basket she was wide awake again crying. Following BW I fed her as soon as she woke up, then did an 'activity' which can be changing nappy, sitting in bouncy chair, playing on gym etc, then when about an hour (can't remember the times now, as going through this with dd seems a long time ago, have got a 6 week old ds and he's keeping me awake all night!) had passed since feeding I'd lie her in her cot, and she did sleep. I think they can become overtired when they miss their 'window' for sleep - if you miss it it is really hard to get them to sleep because they are overtired bizzarely. Looking out for cues like 2 yawns, or rubbing eyes/ears iirc help you to establish when the time is to put them in their cot. Anyway, good luck with baby whispering, hope you're feeling better soon!

mmpaw. I think we have the same baby, except I'm still doing this with my daughter and she's almost 6 months.

You know? I honestly don't ever think I've let her get hungry as I've fed her so frequently.

Good luck with the 3-hour thing.

(I'm quite lazy and perversely find it easier to not do any routine and to co-sleep. Plus I don't believe in the concept of being overtired, but I know the majority will disagree)

Thanks for the post Eggy.
It is nice to know that what and how I am feeling is not abnormal.
And I just burst into tears when I read your last comment, the nicest thing anyone has said to me in a long time. Thank you.

Today has been really weird!
DS woke at 6:20am, so I fed him. He then proceeded to cry for ages. He has never done this after a feed, but just thought go with it. He calmed down and was back to sleep by about 7:15am, so put him in his buggy. He slept for about half an hour. I got me and DD ready as I knew it was going to be hard to get him to go longer than 2 hours without food so I thought we could go for a walk. But in actual fact he was not too bad. He cried, but it was a moany cry rather than "wah wah wah", we made it to 9:10am. Fed him and he was on the boob for his usual 2/3 minutes, he then burst into tears, calmed him down with cuddles, changed his nappy, tried talking to him but he was really tearful, so I offered him the boob again he took some, but not a great deal. So mentally I thought, that is it no more for at least 2.5 hours. He fell asleep more or less straight away, so we all went out for a lovely walk. He woke at 12.40pm, so I fed him and he fed for about 20 mins from 1 boob, I then offered him the other one and he took some. He then came off and was crying, really crying, so I got some EBM out and stuck it in a bottle to eliminate hunger, he had a little go, but not really a lot of interest, so he wasn't hungry. He fell asleep about 2pm. He woke at 3:45pm, fed like a demon from 1 boob, but then proceeded to do this crying thing again !!! cuddled and comforted etc, he fell asleep again for about an hour. He woke and was "wah wah wah" so started his bath a little earlier. DP gives him his bedtime bottle and he drank the whole bottle (6oz), he usually only does about 2oz.
I am pleased with how he has fed today, but dont understand why he is so upset after his feeds, plus he has slept SOOOO much today !!
DP seems to think he is not used to feeling so full so is not sure what to make of it. this in turn is making him really want to sleep, catch up 14 weeks worth of sleep !! Not sure if this sounds plausable ??
Do want to do the baby whisperer EASY, but the activity today was DS moaning/crying, but I do feel like we made a little bit of progress re his feeds.
The HV called me at 2pm and she could hear DS in the background crying, I was crying and DD was singing bobinogs !! we must of sounded all like mad people!!

mppaw I too have a 14 week old snacker... we got into the habit after DD had a cold at 6 weeks and couldn't take a full feed in one go, and through co-sleeping which, whilst it was wonderful for a few weeks, did firmly root us into a snack-all-night kind of routine.

We are now onto a 3 hr feeding schedule, and DD is doing really well on it, taking good proper feeds at each time and is far less windy/colicky than before.

Re BW.. I too tried to make EASY work but found it hard when DD would only take short naps, or need a much longer nap later in the day, or wasn't interested in feeding immediately on waking. I have found it far better to just watch and start to learn DD's cues (knowing she's not hungry now she's taking regular very good feeds). Sometimes her naps are closely preceeded by a feed, but as long as there is SOME gap and she's not feeding to sleep on the breast it's fine.

Glad to hear you made some progress today, can't think what might have caused the upset - could be the taking on more fluid than he's used to thing... or perhaps having a big grow, or got a slight cold. Did he bring up his wind ok?

He has got a cold, but seems like he has had one since birth, but could explain the crying!!!
He has got really good at winding, he almost does it by himself, so am pretty confident it is not wind.
Am defo going to do what you have suggested and watch him and try and figure out what he wants.
Oh well, bring on tomorrow, who knows what it will bring.