How much is breastfeeding really about food?

[firstontheway]

Sorry, couldn't think how to express myself in the title!

DD is 2 weeks old and have had a bit of a devastating time with breastfeeding, first with her loosing 21% weight and being readmitted at 5 days old, the guilt and whatnot that came with that, and not having enough milk etc. I've been doing everything I can to up my supply, domperidone, fenugreek, pumping, babymoons, constant feeding etc but I'm still only really producing a nominal amount of milk (though ore than I was a week ago )

It is taking up a lot of time and truthfully is very demoralising and disheartening when you're trying so hard and there's not much of an improvement, but I love breastfeeding. Love it. I'm gutted I can't feed my baby, but I enjoy putting her to the breast and giving her the bit of milk I have, and I use it to comfort her before, after and between bottle feeds, but am meeting quite a bit of resistance doing so. Basically, I feel like DH and mum would be overjoyed if I was to be able to actually breastfeed her, but they feel that what I'm doing currently is a waste of time and I should just give it up and bottle feed.

I was realy just wondering how much of breastfeeding really is about food? I wish I could feed her, but I can't, so is it wrong, or pointless to give her the breast mostly for comfort instead?

Why do you think you can't feed her? Supply will meet demand-the more you feed her the more you will produce. Please don't give up if you really don't want to Feeding can seem relentless in the first few months but it does get better. I'm sure someone with more knowledge will be along in a minute, but good luck

Was going to say more or less the same as littlelamb - how do you know you can't feed her?

And you're quite right that it's about a lot more than just nutrition - bfing gets me down sometimes but I love the fact that it is such a lovely way of comforting and cuddling with her (really useful for jab-time especially!). If you're happy with what you're doing then DH and MIL should butt out and leave you to it imo - and littlelamb is right, your supply should catch up, especially if you can manage to phase the bottles out.

Good luck

Congratulations on your new baby to both you and your DH!!

Breastfeeding can be so difficult to start with and it sounds like you've had a really tough time so I think you should give yourself a massive pat on the back for still breastfeeding her at all.

It is most definitely NOT wrong or pointless to offer your breast to comfort your DD. There's a pile of science and hormone related issues as to why it's great, but I think it comes down to the fact that it's a truely lovely thing for both of you (and she'll still be getting antibodies etc).

Why don't you go along to a BF cafe or LLL meeting for a bit of moral support. The local LLL should be able to offer some advice about continuing to BF your baby (and also reducing the bottles, if that's what you want).

My best advice to any new mum would be to Mother the way your instincts tell you. If that means having your daughter in a sling and attached to your breast all day then do it.

Going with your instincts will make you and your baby happy .

YOU are the expert on your baby.

Best of luck

There should be someone more qualified to offer advice along in a little bit - but FWIW...

With DS1, he dropped from 10lbs3oz to 8lb10oz in the first 5 days and the MW said I should consider formula if he didn't gain any weight that night. Fortunately his weight plateaued that day and he had gained 3oz by the next evening so that "threat" was lifted. So, IMHO it can take a good 6 days for the milk to come in and weight gain to start.

If your baby was readmitted at 5 days and bottle fed from that point (under medical advice I would have done the same, so don't beat yourself up over it), could it be possible that this has interfered with the "supply and demand" mechanism and prevented you from producing sufficient milk to BF exclusively?

It should be possible to "relactate" given proper support - a breastfeeding counsellor or such might be able to advise in more detail. I think it has to be done gradually, but you might still be able to move your baby from the bottle to mixed or even exclusive BFing.

If that doesn't happen, please don't go forward carrying huge amounts of guilt over this. You have done your darndest to BF you LO - providing her with colostrum in her early days, and some milk since (which is still more than a lot of mothers manage).

Personally, I would not give up. It will be difficult, but it is not impossible, and is worthwhile from health and emotional perspectives. Good luck to you. (hug emoticon)

www.kellymom.com is a great website for info on all things lactational!

And don't forget that initially only small amounts of milk are required to fill their tiny tummies - it's more important to feed your baby frequently (or at least offer the breast frequently).

Another top tip for building your supply is to offer both breasts at each feed.

Just a quick reply as I'm about to go to bed, but I think giving her your breast even if just for comfort is great. I continued to "feed" DD after I became pregnant again when she was 10 months old. My milk dried up almost straight away, and I was pretty gutted as I'd intended to BF her until she was two. I carried on nursing her with negligible milk until she was about 14 months old and she weaned herself .

I am so so glad I continued the cuddliness and intimacy of BFing even though I wasn't providing (much) nutrition.

Really hope BFing gets more milky for you though Sounds like you're doing a great job in persevering.

Bumping for you - are Tiktok or Mears out there?

Thanks so much for your advice and kind words... I promise I didn't mean to post and run, but for some reason as soon as I'd posted my internet decided to break!

I'm definetly not making enough milk to feed, but I'm hoping I'll get there If I have a free day I'll just feed feed feed all day until she gets so frustrated because it's like trying to get blood out of a stone, at which point I'll give her formula and then pump. I do definetly have more milk than I had before I started using the dompreridone (Thanks Leonie!!) but still not enough to fully feed, or even really mix feed just yet. But I'm continuing to put her on all day and she does get those little bits.

I went to the GP yesterday to try and ask them to investigate possible causes of me not haviong a lot of milk like anaemia or an underactive tyroid ()I have a few other symptoms as well) but they're not really interested tbh. The doctor even told me they're happy for a baby's birthweight to drop down to anything less than 25%!! And basically said that as my baby is gaining well now on the formula, I should stick to that. Not very helpful!

I do feel happier that it's not such a waste of my time nurrsing her now even if I have a negligable amount of milk, I love doing it. but I can see why people are trying to disuade me otherwise as from their point of view I'm just knackering myself trying to triple feed her, breast, bottle and pumping. But I'm desperate not to give up yet. Certainly do think, for us at least that it's about way way more than milk.

A 25 per cent weight loss is usually very serious, and I think your GP has been confused there

Firstontheway (time for a name change? ) , you have had really difficult start to bf and it's not surprising you are struggling to build up a supply.

It's important to tackle this systematically - not waiting until you have a free day to feed and feed, but to do this as soon as possible and combine it with frequent expressing. It's v. hard work but it's the best way to preserve and maintain a milk supply.

Calling any of the bf helplines will be good, too.

Hope it works out.

Thanks Tiktok- I do breastfeed every 2-3 hours before offering a bottle, but she eventually just gets so angry she won't carry on without me giving her a bottle- she latches on for a couple of seconds, realises there's no milk there and screams blue murder till I offer her a bottle!

I agree I need to make more free days for continuous feeding, but really just worry I won't be giving her enough again if I don't give her a good top up. So I offer 60-90 mls post breastfeed which she wolfs down and then I express. I asked my HV for advice on Monday, and she said I should only breastfeed for 10 mins or so before giving a bottle or I'll wear her out, (I've been feeding for 45mins-1hour before offering formula, or when she gets too angry to latch on, whichever comes first!) but that doesn't seem long enough to me?

Sounds like poor advice from the HV

10 mins is not long to bf.

Call one of the helplines (sorry, I mentioned that before!) to have a proper dialogue about this.

You may need a plan to help you wind down the formula top ups...is the 60-90 mls formula? That's a large amount when you total it up over 24 hours. Means you have to work on reducing it gradually.

At the moment you have the hardest way ever of feeding - bf, formula and expressing

Let us know how you get on when you speak to a BF specialist.

Wishing you well.

I'm not an expert and this is just a possibility but a friend of mine had trouble with her milk not coming in. It turned out she had a tiny bit of retained placenta and after a D&C she was able to bf with no probs. May not be at all relevent to your situation but it's something the MW/GP might be able to check up on.

Apart from that sending you good wishes, hope you can get there.

Congrats! But Firstontheway, what do you mean by 'free day?'Do you have other stuff on?

DS's feeds regularly lasted over an hour when he was 2 weeks old, and would start again, an hour later. 10 minutes wouldn't even have gotten my let down reflex going properly.

Please phone LLL or look at kellymom.

And there's nothing wrong with nursing purely for comfort - DS was stil BFing at 22 months, and whilst this was beneficial to him, there's no way anyone could say it was nurtitionally necessary.

Sorry that cameacross as a bit blunt and nosey, I just mean, like Georgimama I seemed to have DD on almost constantly at the start- night 3 was a landmark with 7 hours solid feeding, even the midwife took pity on me and tried to show me how to feed her lying down, against the hospital rules.... if you are still doing some work,or having to trudge into too many hospital appointments, that could be a problem.

But- have to say,with DS- have him formula fed but have kept up twice daily pumping, mainly so I can bf him to soothe him occasionally, so I think feeding for comfort is a lovely thing to do, I think of it as my secret weapon to get him to sleep when he's really fighting sleep.

Have you been able to have a breastfeeding counselor or specialist take a look at how a feeding session goes? That would be an important step because sometimes the issue can be down to the latch or the sucking pattern is not allowing for sufficient movement of milk.

What was the initial reason you felt you weren't producing enough, other than the inital weight loss after birth? When did your milk start to transition to mature milk after baby was born? How soon did you notice a change in bowel movements?

Since she is now used to the bottle, you can try to help her have to work a bit more for her meal. One way would be to use what is called rhythm bottling....you would hold her a bit more upright and the bottle a bit more horizontal, let her suck 5-6 times and remove the bottle, suck 5-6 times, remove, and keep repeating. Milk flows much easier from a bottle than from you so some babies will balk at going to the breast because they don't want to have to work for it! Another very good option to consider would be a supplemental nursing system. This is a soft container you would put formula in and wear like a necklace. A small tube runs from the bottom of it and attaches to your breast and areola. This works well all around because baby gets fed, your breasts continue to receive the stimulation they need for production, baby gets used to latching and suckling the breast, and associates feeding with being at the breast....everyone wins! If you don't feel your hv or gp are knowledgable enough to help in your situation, ask for a referral or contact a breastfeeding specialist yourself. The suggestion of a LLL group, or similar type group, was a good one as you will likely find other mothers who also had a rough start who can support you and offer suggestions, along with the faciliator of the group.

Sorry for the long post....the proper support is out there, sometimes you just have to do some real searching unfortunately.

Sorry to hear someone else in this situation. Both my babies lost a lot of weight and were readmitted to hospital, but the outcome has been very much better this time round, but I had a very hard time getting here.

DS1 ended up bottle fed.

DS2 was mix fed for a few weeks but I was able to cut the top ups down and out.

I had a lot of help from the hospital's breastfeeding counsellor but even she in the end told me I had to top up. But I only topped up after at least 20 minutes breastfeeding. I don't express very successfully and pointed out that this doesn't always reflect milk supply. It was very very hard work but by persevering my supply did increase. There was a spell where his weight gain was rocky and I feared I was going to be pushed back to more top ups, but then it began to speed up and has been at very respectable rates that all the medical professionals were very happy with at the last 3 apppointments where he's been weighed, and all on breastmilk only.

I really hope it gets better for you, and that you get the support you need.