Can anyone point me in the direction of some solid scientific research on the quality of breast milk over time? I really want to prove this twat wrong.

[Jackbunnysmama]

Was at a seminar yesterday for professional continuing education credits. It was presented by a medical nutritionist who has developed his own line of vitamins and supplements. All well and good (if a bit boring), until he talked about one of his supplements which has anti-inflammatory properties, and includes white willow extract. He (quite correctly) stressed that it was not to be given to children under 12 due to the risk of Reye's syndrome, but that it was otherwise very safe and effective. I asked the speaker whether there was any indication whether or not the supplement was safe for breastfeeding women. He said that, because of the difficulty in doing research to investigate (very true - who'd volunteer for a study like that??), they simply didn't know, and so it was best not to take the supplement if breastfeeding. Then he said, "but if a nursing woman needs this kind of anti-inflammatory she can always wait a few months and then take it when she's weaned". So I said, "that's fine if a woman chooses to wean early but of course, lots of women choose extended breastfeeding, so the wait could be quite long". To which he replied:

"well, if they want to do that, fine, but of course after a year or so breast milk is really nothing more than water".

I couldn't help it, I was so shocked by this kind of ignorance from a medical nutritionist that I laughed right in his face and sort of gasped, "where did you get that idea??" He countered with "show me the research that says otherwise". I responded with "I will be happy to email it to you, but in the meantime, if breast milk were nutritionally valueless, the WHO, American and Canadian Academies of Paediatrics wouldn't be recommending breast feeding until age two, would they?" He said, "I didn't know that that's what they do recommend." (Well, as a bloody medical nutritionist, you damn well should, you fuckwit!) I said, "well, they do... and I suppose my 13 month old, who could only be said to be experimenting with solids, has reached 24 pounds on animal crackers, apple sauce... and my breast water???" I left it alone at this point (and pretty much tuned the jerk out for the rest of the seminar), but I would really like to find some solid scientific research to email to him and prove that I'm not just some left-wing militant breastfeeding fanatic.

I've found a couple of sources but would be most grateful for more.

I'm not sure it needs references does it? Why would women suddenly start excreting water from their breasts once their baby reaches one?!!

If you do want references though you could look here

I think you countered his argument really well.

What an idiot.

Sounds like you did very well.
That kellymom link is the easiest way in.
His argument is so bizarre it's difficult to know where even to begin.
Certain immunological properties increase after 12 months. Secretory IgA is at more than double the levels at 24 months than it was at 6 months. Also partly because volume of milk consumed will probably be less so the body needs to adjust. Lactoferrin increases again at 16 months after a decline. Lysozymes are 10X the strength at 16 months than they were at 1 month. There's a table on kellymom that summarizes it all.
Fat and calories also increase after 12 months pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/116/3/e432?etoc
"During prolonged lactation, the fat energy contribution of breast milk to the infant diet might be significant."

It's pretty clear from his comments that he knows zip about breastfeeding. Good thing you have a chance to educate him a bit.

stick some in his tea then ask if he thought it was watery

You told him

SPB - PMSL!!

Jacksmbunnysmama - who was this person? Please name and shame.

My money is on Patrick Holford.

I will not risk mumsnet getting involved with any litigious action, but lets just say there are other places to visit on the web which point out, with references, some of the (ahem) weaknesses in his qualifications and business ethics.

holfordwatch.info/ is a good place to start.

Whether it was PH or not, which professional organisation presents this sort of quackery as a means of training?

Message withdrawn

Ah, I didnt know you were not in the UK, JBM.

My suspcicions of anyone rise when they have something to sell like this, anyway.

It's a disgrace not to know the stance of Canada's paediatricians on bf.

And the professional organisation offering this as training....?

Jesus Christ.
Words fail me.
You countered him well though.

I know - what a twat...

Tiktok, do you have any research I could use?

Research....well, the links already posted are good. But it makes no sense to try to 'prove' breastmilk does not turn to water at a year, and you might just as well prove it does not turn to camembert cheese. It's simply not plausible that it would turn to water. We can observe this every day...it doesnt even look like water!

[snurk] was this exchange in earshot of other people, Jacksmama?

I would have loved to be there to snort at him.

Yes foxy, it actually was!

I was told the same thing by my health visitor, except she said this mysterious transition of milk to water, and breastfeeding to (in her words) a 'lovely recreational activity' happened at 6 months. She virtually insisted that DS start drinking 20 oz of formula a day. Fortunately for us, DS had other ideas and self-weaned at almost 3.

I'll print out those references in preparation for similar conversations about DS2. Thank you

And I think I was probably emitting [outraged emoticons] for the rest of the seminar as he didn't quite dare to look in my direction again.

Actually, I should send him a picture of me expressing (which I'm currently doing... picture this: attached to Medela double-pump, typing one-handedly... now that's multi-tasking!!!) so that he can see that what's coming out looks more like 8 oz of the best double cream and not remotely like water.

Here is a link to an article I found that reports a study done in Tel Aviv, which found that the fat content of breast milk increases over time, from 3-5% when baby is a newborn, to as much as 17.5% after a couple of years. Can you imagine expressing and letting that stand for an hour or two? Devonshire clotted cream!!!! www.ahomeonearth.com/fatmilk.php

good god, what an imbecile.

not knowing something like that as a medical 'professional' is appalling.

but then sadly the majority of medical professionals seem similarily misinformed

good for you for speaking up

Oh I love making a complete pest of myself over ignorance like this!!!

What the hell is a "medical nutritionist"? Did he make that name up? He really can't be that qualified if he believes that nonsense. I wonder what his qualifications are.

This is the American Paediatrics link on breastfeeding policy:

aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/conten...pediatrics;115/2/496
which has a load of references to published material proving the point.

You should bombard him with a bucket load of these references. Might soften his cough, as we say around here.

Actually, I was just wondering if you should express some and send it to him to analyse!

Is "medical nutrionist a made-y up title, d'ya think?

medical nutritionalist= quack,is unregulated title anyone can use.also they are allowed to sell their products to clients.jumped up pseudo-scientific salesman.

the speaker sounds nuttier than a bowl of muesli.infuriating

the worst of the breed is Patrick Holford and his pseudo-scientific babbling

best stick with registered dietitian,registered with HPC.they train at Undergrad and/post grad

But is he really a 'medical' professional? He says he's a nutritionist, which is quack-speak for a conperson who tries to make megabucks with their own products. See Ben Goldacre on this! I'd mistrust anyone who was speaking in the capacity of flogging their own crank-supplements, in any case.

It's not his area, and there's probably no reason why he should know about BF, but having said that, he then shouldn't spout wildly inaccurate/untrue statements about it either. I'd be inclined to leave it, TBH. he doesn't sound worth it!

Chiropractor/ nutritionalist?? That's like saying a chiropodist is a qualified optician - they're totally different things. Just because you've qualified in one medical area certainly wouldn't make you an expert in all of them.

Does he have any other qualifications?