Feeling desperate, help needed - 7 day old DD not latching on

[Dotty38]

Hi

My sis in law posted for me but I haven't been able to find the post or the time to get on my laptop until now.

DD born last Wednesday at 39 weeks, thedelivery was drawn out, i was pushing for 7 hours, had only gas and air through out, so pethidine can't be blamed here, eventusally they used a ventouse (kiwi cup) to get her out. She was very sleepy and mucusy for the first 5 days and still remains fairly sleepy als=though she is now having more awake times but she doesb't wake to be fed i have to wake her, nor does she cry very much only if I stripe her off to a nappy in a cool room!

I dersperately want to breast feed her as i know it's the best for her but she doesn't open her mouth wide enough to latch on. Theres nothing wrong with my nipple size all ok there, shes also been checked for tonge tie - not an issue, it just seems that DD really has no idea how to feed from me. I've seen loads of different midwives, a breast feeding specialist, and an nct breast feeding counsellor all of them do the same thing, suggest and try all the standard positions and then man handel me and DD and try to force my boob into her mouth, the hole experience stresses me and stresses DD. I decided yesterday to stop trying so hard and have a break as i don't want DD to associate my boob with stress. but as the days have gone on and the amount of milk she needs is increasing ive had to start using a bottle to feed her expressed breast milk. When we came home i was cup feeding her but that has been too difficult to continue with larger amounts.

I'm managing to express between 60-80 mils for each feed at the mo but i'm so worried my milk will dry up or not incresase in supply.

Basically I'm feeling like i need to make a decision re formular milk as I just can't see her ever latching on especially now i'm using a bottle. Some feedback or any one else in similar situation would be great to hear from.

This whole situation has me in [pieces, crying mostly and feeling unabvle to change anything about it. I never dreamt this could happen no one ever talks about how hard it could be just how important it is and how 'breast is best' the pressure this creates for me right now is intolerable.

sorry for long post and typos doing it one handed while burping DD!

Dotty.

You don't say if you and your baby have had the chance to cuddle up together, for long periods, day and night...so you can respond to every little feeding cue quickly and efficiently. Or if you have tried biological nurturing/self-attachment positions. All these would help.

I agree that manhandling and forcing will not have helped I am an NCT breastfeeding counsellor, and I seriously doubt if the one you saw would have even touched you and your baby very much - we absolutely don't do manhandling, for exactly the reasons you outline, that it is stressful and ineffective.

Whichever person you have found to be the least unhelpful, can you call them again and ask about the things I have mentioned above?

It's good you are expressing while this difficulty persists. Your milk will not dry up as long as milk is being removed often enough from your breasts, by the baby or the expressing, or a combination of both...and that means at least 8 times in 24 hours, both sides, inc overnight.

But the main thing at the moment is to de-stress the whole situation, and you can make a start on that by cuddling, self-attachment, and by not forcing any feeds at all.

Hope this helps.

dotty so glad to see tiktok has posted for you - go back to nct counsellor and avoid mws.

i didn't get ds latched on for five days and nobody told me to express. when he did manage to feed the latch was not good and caused all sorts of problems, so get help now and all can be well. i have gone on to feed ds for years so you can get past this

you might have to be quite determined as you get going though, esp if anyone starts trying to suggest formula top ups.

one day at a time, get help and keep posting.

oops left a bit off there- avoid mws manhandling, not in general they aren't monsters!

My ds2 was very bad at latching stuck his tongue in wrong place sucked ineffectively, and had large amounts of formula in first 6 weeks, but did eventually work out how to do it and bstfed for 2 years. He still (at 7 years)hates having the back of his head touched, and had a complete aversion to people pushing him onto my breast and holding his head forcibly.

One of things I did (which I observed a maternity nurse doing) was to stroke his head firmly and gently when he was bottle feeding and at other times so that he got used to his head being touched, talk very soothingly to him if he was fighting the breast, squeeze milk into his mouth when he was not latching on to make him realise the milk was there.

I also saw a cranial osteopath at 6 weeks and a bfng counsellor to sort out his inability to open his mouth wide.

This may get slated by breast feeding counsellors, but I wanted to say what helped me in the same position. My babies did not 'get' latching on, and my dd1 was man-handled in the same way as you describe, leading to her getting very distressed whe she was near my boobs. That really upset me.
Anyway, what worked for me bizarrely was when I put a bottle teat over my nipple. My dd1 took to it immediately and was able to feed. Next feed I used a nipple shield, and again she latched quickly and contentedly. I fed all three of mine with shields for about 4-5 months, than without shields until they self-weaned.
If you haven't tried them yet, I would recommend you do. They are a faff, but if you are desperate they are worth a try. They didn't affect my supply at all. Boots sell them, the best ones are NUK/MAM ones, followed by Avent.
If you can get your dd feeding with them, then it easies the pressure and you can start to relax a bit. You can then work on weaning her off them.
Best of luck - I have been where you are and I know how hard and horrible it is.

Presmumably she is waking up for feeds and crying when she is hungry? Could you try just being everpresent (ie; snuggled up in bed with her, so that at the first hint of interest, you could squeeze milk into her mouth by hand expressing and she might just open her mouth and start trying to feed properly from you.
The breakthrough for us was when ds2 caught a terrible cold at 6 weeks, and obviously needed lots of feeding and hydration. The fact that he was ill made me just want to sit with him in my arms all day and keep him snuggled close, and that's when he started feeding properly. I didn't think in terms of feeds being due, or waking him up, I just was always available. Before that I think the whole bureaucracy of feeding him after weight loss, feedtimes, expressing, making up bottles had sort of prevented that kind of responsiveness.

Dotty, I'm no expert but feel your distress. DD1 took some 8-9 weeks to latch properly and gave me really sore cracked nipples and we both got seriously distressed through the whole thing. I also had lots of man handling which was most unhelpful but I did go on to feed her successfully for about 10 months.

My DD2 is also a week old and has struggled terribly latching while I was engorged and she's still struggling a little opening her mouth wide enough but it is much better now my breasts are soft again. The only thing I'm doing differently this time is remaining calm and stroking and talking gently to her while trying to get her to latch on herself. I am trying different positions if after a few minutes she seems to be getting distressed, try pillows, laying down but trying to remain as calm as possible. It took over an hour the other day to get her to latch on properly (unfortunately nips are a little damaged from it all so it's not entirely pain free at the moment).

It's interesting to read Tiktoks post because my main concern has been not to upset DD1 with it all hence remaining calm and letting DD2 bob about and do it all herself. I was concerned that if I showed signs of distress and looked to be man handling DD2 then DD1 would get distressed too so it seems that what I'm doing is probably the right thing.

I wish you lots of luck, it takes real determination to carry on when everyone else is telling you to just give up.

Thank you everyone. That helps so much. Destress and calm need to be my moto from now on and we will get past this as I see other people have mastered it. It's so good to hear that other people have had similar trials to deal with but have come through it - we will to I have to believe that now to stop feeling so anxious.

Tiktok I'm trying to express between each feed and feeding her about every three hours apart from at night she goes four hours from midnight to 4am. The NCT counsellor (she is also the infant feeding advisor at the hospoital) has lent me a super double pump from the hospital which is making things much easier. But in 24 hours I feed her 9 times and so aim to express that often. I have been scupered on occassions when midwives appear or friends visit. Infact I hid yesterday and ignored the door and mobile, but then being on my own seemed to work myself up into a state hence my post at 4am during a feed!

I have only found the midwives man handel us, the NCT counsellor was great and helped me to put a short term plan in place (with the pump) and will review with me today over the phone, she has been great but I only found out about her yesterday now at home even though I delivered at that hospital and had problems from day one!

Thanks again, so helpful to me. Feel far more calm and positive today.

Hi Dotty,

A quick one to say don't panic about milk drying up - as a fallback plan it is possible to exclusively pump to feed your babe. An almighty faff and PITA, and if you can get baby on the breast life is much better, but it is possible to up your supply if you need to through pumping alone - and if your supply dips it's not irretrievable so try not to worry too much. (I started out expressing 40mls and up to 150ml per session at present). It's not ideal but it's there as an option if latching continues to be an issue. Hopefully your LO will get the hang of it and transition over to the boob though.

Dotty, you seem to be in good hands

Please, please tell the infant feeding person of how poor the midwives' help has been, and how desperate you were this morning, desperate enough to post to an internet talk board.

You may want to make a formal complaint when you have everything sorted. Your baby's issues have been exacerbated, if not actually caused, by the handing

Dotty I just had to post as I completely understand what you are going through as I have been there myself and it is awful. I was told after 3 days in hospital that my nipples were too flat to BF so left hospital on formula, I was absolutely devestated. We had also been manhandled in hospital which meant that DS went mad whenever I put him near my breast. On day 4 at home I started to express 4 out of 6 feeds a day and tried lots of skin to skin to no avail. Just as I was accepting that I'd have to mix feed and express my BM I made yet another attempt (on day 10) to put him to the breast in the middle of the night when we were both calm and to my astonishment he latched on !! I think a combination of my nipples, his trauma after manhandling and his mouth being small (we was onloy 6lb 5oz) made it a rocky start, but from then on he has been BF approx 95% (I have had terrible pain from various conditions). he is now 4 months old and a chunky little monkey ! I am sure you'll have no supply issues as you are doing a great job expressing as often as you are - well done ! you sound determined and I am sure you will get there - sending big hugs to you as I also really struggled with guilt at the thought of not being able to BF, I felt like such a failure which was down to the general pressure on women to BF. The very fact that you are so determined goes to show what a brilliant mummy you are already well done and good luck xx

Dotty, do post again when you get a chance, we'd love to know how things are

CHANGE YOUR BOTTLE!

My top tip is to use a Playtex bottle. My ds stopped breastfeeding due to thrush at 10 days and I couldnt get him started again, he lost so much weight I had to bottle feed, once I switched to playtex, which mimics bf latching on, he got the idea and then started bf again. It was such a struggle because even bf counsellor had given up on us, but glad I persevered. All worked in the end. only took two weeks, but I know how long those weeks feel! We breastfed then until over a year.

Also, I increased milk supply. Try breastfeeding bread, a fab recipe from Allegra McEvedy, in the Leon cookbook. works a dream to increase supply. If you can't find it, post and I will copy it out on here.

Hiya, right have five now to post! A mirical has happened, the following day (thurs day 8) and the little poppet latched on in the middel of the afternoon and has been feeding from me ever since. We still have such a long way to go as her latch isn't great and I'm very sore already but I'm guessing even if she latched on perfectly I'd still get sore. It is taking me quite a while to get her on sometimes up to 45 mins but I've been staying calm and just reassuring her and being slow and gentel and it seems to have really helped both of us. At the minute I'm just feeding her even though it really hurts but I'm hoping the further along we get the more she will learn and the better I will get at latching her on properly. Last night for the first time in bed she started properly rooting on my chest got her self to my left nipple and with a bit of help from me holding my nipple she latched on herself. I can't tell you all how happier and relieved I am.

I neally decided to give up when I posted orgiginally as I felt I needed to get myself out of the constant stress we were both feeling about feeding but I think all your posts and hearing others similar experiences really helped me to keeping trying.

So I'm sure that with another week we'll be well away so I'm going to keep going as we are and not worry myself too much about making her latch perfect every time.

Well done both of you.

Great news Dotty am so pleased for you. It may be worth getting your latch observed and fixed as I was exaclty the same as you, just so relieved to have DS on the boob I was not bothered about the latch. However, we are now 4 months on and I still have terrible pain (I have had thrush, white nipple and blocked ducts on and off for months and every day is a struggle to feed).
Am so glad you persevered and got there in the end

Hi Mibbes. We're a few more days on and I'm still breast feeding but not without problems!! I thought her latch was poor (I still do) but an Infant feeding advisor I saw at hosptal last week said her latch was perfect and the pain I'm in was caused by thrush. So we're now both being treated for that. But I know her latch still isn't great as I get blanching on my nipple after a feed and sometimes I'm getting what look like little white blisters which come up after a feed but then go down again. The feeding advisor said if her latch was not right she wouldn't be getting the milk she needs, would be hungry all the time and would not be gaining weight.

I'm still wanting to perservere as I think eventually DD will get better at latching on properly and I too will improve with more practice but my god it's so so hard as i'm in so much discomfort and sometimes unbearable pain during feeds.

You've done so well to last 4 months dealing with such problems. Well done you.

Dotty you have done so well to get this far

I don't think you were given the right information about your DD not gaining weight if the latch wasn't right. My DS2 did not latch on well to begin with and I got those white spots you describe - ooh they hurt! But he was piling on the weight at a rate of knots because I had a generous supply. It does matter that you are in pain and the blisters don't sound right. I wonder if there is anyone else you could see for a second opinion? There are various BF helplines you could try and there are also BF support groups and Baby Cafes dotted round the country.

My DS started latching on better as he got a little bigger and his mouth opened wider. He is 17 weeks now and there has been no pain or even mild discomfort for about ten or more weeks.

Thrush is also very very painful and once the treatment starts working you will feel much better. Are you both being treated at the same time? You will find it goes a lot quicker if you change your breast pads v frequently, wash your bras at 60 and change them every day to prevent reinfection. You can get acidophilus tablets from the health food shop (good bacteria) and they helped me enormously, I swear by them.

Best of luck.

Hi provinciallady, that confirms my instinct is right about her latch not being right and she can still have a good feed even if she's not on properly which I think happens during most feeds. Although today I have had a few feeds where shes gone on much better and the feed has been painful but only in terms of the burning which I think is the thrush and not the awful poor attachment pain which quite honestly practically sends me through the ceiling.

So you must have had the first 7 weeks weeks struggling with attachmnent by the sounds of your post.

There is a breast feeding support group in the town near me which I'm going to phone up on Tuesday and see if I can go along for a bit of moral support with this. Until last week I seemed to stop functioning in the real world and had confined my life to feeding, nappy changing and expressing in the living room. But I seem to be getting to grips with stuff now. Even fed her while we were out, granted in the car but still it was a big achievement for me!!

Have just started on the acidophilus and have been plying myself with live yogurt and actimel drinks. Haven't been washing at 60 degrees though so will do that. I've also stopped using the disposable breast pads and switched to washable ones which are so much more comforatble but I wear one pair through the day, should I change them more, I probably should. Right must buy some more then!

Yes the first few weeks were a bit of a challenge but not all the time, just on and off. I could never work out what we had done right when it did go well so that I could replicate it...but then it just seemed to sort itself out. It sounds like you might be experiencing something similar. I hope the thrush clears up quickly. Re the breast pads - thrush thrives in warm, damp conditions so I guess you need to change as often as necessary to achieve that. I hope you can get to the BF support group.