have been starving my baby :(

[firstontheway]

DD was born last Saturday weighing 7lbs 2, and was re-weighed for the first time yesterday evening and she's dropped to 5lbs 9

We went into hospital, and they discharged us today saying she's not dehydrated but to bottle feed formula 3 hourly. Previously I had just been breastfeeding her, but realise now I was starving her, even though I was engorged and had milk, I can only get about 2mls when I hand express and nothing but a drop when I use a hand or electric pump.

On a positive note, a lovely midwife came by today and she has put on over 100g overnight, and she helped me to latch baby on to the breast (which she was refusing to do last night/ this morning once we'd offered her a botle). Am contacting my GP this afternoon re: starting domperidone, collecting 2mls EBM in a syringe to give her before I give a bottle, then using a pump to express for 20 mins or so after I've bottle fed her. If she continues to accept the breast, I'll offer it whenever she will take it (esp pre bottle feeding) and for comfort. Is there anything else I can do? Is 2mls EBM really going to do her any good when I'm drowing it in 60mls formula straight after?

I jsut feel so guilty that I've been starving her all this time, and I wanted to breastfeed her so so much. I'm crying all the time, and I'm not sure where to go from here. Any advice? Thanks

Not got any advice to give - it looks like there is lots of good advice already but wanted to say well done on getting this far - a lot of people don't ever even try breast feeding so by even getting that far (and carrying on now) you are doing well. Although its easy to say and hard to do - try not to feel guilty - you are doing all you can - it is the professionals who have let you and your DD down, not you.

i think that you are doing a fabulous job and you should be really proud of yourself, getting to grips with breatfeeding is the toughest job in the world. i breastfed and gave formula for the first 4 months or so, and breastfed up until he was 22months old. i think its ok that they learn to take formula as well, it gives you a break for a start. dont beat yourself up, you can do both and you are doing brilliantly

Can I second the babymoon idea? Go to bed with the baby, lots of delicious drinks and snacks for you, the tv remote and the phone, and just cuddle and feed and gaze at your beautiful baby all day long. (The gazing is very important - it helps them grow!) You will rest - which you need to do - your milk supply will increase and you will get to know your baby even better.

Oh, and don't judge your supply by what you can pump. I had gallons of milk with my first one - she put on weight practically visibly but I could never pump more than a drop or two.

Oh again - listen to tictok - she knows what she's talking about.

Good luck

Sorry everyone- did not mean to ignore all your replies but have had my hands full!

Thanks for all the sugestions, Bessie it's good to hear hat even after needing to use formula that you continued to breastfeed for so long. I hope we will end up the same. And it's also reassuring to know that some people are just not 'pump' people! Am still not getting anything out of the pump but a few drops, although I only pump after she's fed so I guess that the little I do have will be guzzled down immediately! Started on a mini dose of domperidone Fri evening- just 10mg TDS, am hoping to get it increased this week.

I think my supply has increased a bit- but I'm talking an extra few mls. When I hand express a bit for her to smell before I try to latch her on, it now 'spurts' instead of just dribbles out iyswim! Breasts still feels very soft though, not hard and engorged like before. I'm still hoping I can get things back on track. I've stopped feeling so guilty, but still feel desperately sad at the way things have gone so far, I want to breastfeed so much, I never thought I'd feel so strongly about it as I do, but really feel my body is letting me down. Before i knew my supply was so low I was worrying about feeding in public, having cold sweats thinking about feeding tops and slings etc and now I think i'd happily go topless in the park if it meant I could feed her!

It's good that you're feeling a bit better - can you do the babymoon thing? It's lovely anyway, and I guarantee you'll feel better for the rest whatever else happens.

I think the secret is to feed as much as you can - a baby suckling away is the best way to tell your body to get on with the milk production!

A huge WELLDONE to you for persevering with the breastfeeding, even if your baby has formula aswell you will still be able to breastfeed so DONT WORRY!
Our ds1 who is now a healthy 4 year old was 9lb 11 when he was born. My dear MIL died suddenly 3 days before he was born so I think that didnt help my breastfeeding. I was tense alot of the time and I remember him crying alot and hardly sleeping. When he was weighed on day ten he had lost 18 and a half ozs. I too felt guilty but we are not super human, you are doing your best to feed her and give her the best start and now she is gaining weight the hardest part is over. Our ds1 had top ups of formula until he was feeding well, if you breastfeed first then give the formula it shouldnt affect your supply then they will gradually need less milk. Its very rare that the milks not 'good enough'. I bf ds1 till he was 14m and loved it. Im sure youll be fine, congratulations! Xxx

It sounds like you are making positive progress, so well done .

Have you considered hand expressing after feeds to see if this is any more effective for you than a pump? Also, what sort of pump are you using? If you're expressing to increase supply then usually a hospital-grade double pump is the best bet. These can be hired from people like NCT or the manufacturers (eg Ameda). The duobles are usualyl a bit quicker and the breasts work together, so if one gets going, often it will trigger the other to start.

Have you seen the Kellymom info on domperidone?

Has anyone suggested using breast compressions whilst your LO feeds to maximise what they are taking direct from you?

Breasts are never empty -milk is made all the time. If you are playing catch-up, then it may be that the rate of production is not quite as fast as your baby would like, but if you keep removing the milk and feed at every opportunity then this will maximise your supply. As others have said, skin-to-skin really helps too.

It's interesting to hear that you were engorged, as this indicates that you did at one stage have lots of milk, which is a positive sign for stregthening your supply. also, do remember that soft breasts have the highest fat, most filling and fattening milk.

You must be very busy and perhaps feeling rather tied at the moment? I'm guessing it's not how you imagined spending this time either. What has happened to you both has been shocking and may take a little while to get your head round. Most people find it helps to keep talking about these feelings until they work it all through in their own heads.

first - sounds like shitty postnatal support strikes again. Leave it all behind and look to the spring with you and your breastfeeding baby enjoying the hail sunshine. You can pull this back by following the sound advice and gradually making progress, every single feed.

You are doing amazingly well, keep the faith and be brave.

You have not been starving your baby repeat this 1000 times a day until the guilt goes. It will replaced by other guilt, as mothers are generally riddled by guilt, but you must off load this one as it is too negative for you to carry around all day.

I'm with TikTok about the weight loss. Were different scales used?

Can I just say that I understand why people are questioning whether the weights were correct, but I'm not sure it's entirely helpful.

It is definitely possible for a baby to lose 20% in 6 days without appearing seriously ill. They might simply appear sleepy, not 'demand' enough feeds & not do enough wee/poo. But it can be really hard for new mums to know what is normal so may go unrecognised unless the right questions are asked by caregivers (e.g. if baby poos are poos bigger than a 50p, or are we talking about a tiny smear?). If such a big weight loss is what has happened then milk transfer cannot have been happening effectively, and this can seriously impact on supply (not will, but can), & even if the baby is now feeding effectively there may be a little catching up to do.

This really is one of those situations where real life expert support is crucial.

Grendle,I agree - a 20 per cent weight loss is possible without signs of serious illness. But the baby with 20 per cent weight loss is ill - shown in lethargy, listlessness, lessneing interest in feeding, and these signs should be recognised by midwives and mothers as alarm bells. I agree that expert help is essential to reverse this.

I would doubt the scales if none of these signs were present and if the baby had been pooing and weeing, because you really don't get a 20 per cent weight loss without these other signs. The 20 per cent weight loss is a late sign of poor milk transfer

i really want whomovedmychocolate to see this, she has babies who become ENORMOUS on her bm (absolutely gorgeous of course but strikingly HUGE) but cannot pump at all. some people just aren't built for pumping, it may have no bearing on your supply whatsoever.

i hope everything works out for you, firstontheway, and i hope you manage to get back onto exc bfing, cos mixing is a bit of a pita ime. this happened to me too, dd1 had a 12% weight loss and the community midwife was all for phoning an ambulance and putting her on a drip , and what i remember most is the crushing drop in confidence i felt. i was wrecked, and saying all the same things you are, that i was starving her etc. it was awful, not what a new mum needs.

my gut instinct is that you need to see a better bfc (the ones in my hospital were crap and declared my latch perfect but it WASN'T) but remember if this all doesn't work out the way you want it to, you have given dd a good start, babies are designed to lose a bit of weight, and every bit of bm is a bonus.

best wishes to you and your baby. Just to add that I have a friend who has breastfed her 2 children for most of the last 5 years - and she has never ever really managed to get much milk out with expressing. agree with aitch that someone people just don't get on with expressing.

Just another support message rom someone whose baby didnt gain at first but managed to sort it out; ds4 is still small but that's height and buiod, weight wise he's actually quite heavy. Heaven knows where he hides it LOL!

Seriously, it can be done but with work; good work though. I was ordered to give formula and Dh tried but my clever little boy wouldnt take the bottle. So I posted here, got advice from TikTok etc (just to show it can happen to anyone, i'd done a 3 day BF course myself before) and with changes and a babymoon it sorted itself out; ds4 is weaned but for drinks still ebf, he's one next week.

Good luck, and cngrats on your wonderful baby.

(Oha nd yes to this day I cant express an ounce! If I take my iron (I'm fairly severely anaemic) I can just about get that, witout it nothing at all)

i had dd's birth weight recorded wrong. we were told, and had it written as 8lb 5oz. come to the 10 day weigh in and she was 8lb 15oz. midwife was shocked at such a high weight gain. turned out birthweight was in fact 8lb 14oz and the conversion had been done wrong. i had to stop myself charging the NHS for reimbursment for my birth announcement cards grrr.

Firstly, well done for persevering despite the advice you have been getting from the 'Health' service!

I can't better the bf advice that you have already been given - particularly from people such as Tiktok who know what they are talking about.

However, I can let you know about my experience with expressing. Ds was exclusively bf, and, although he lost over 1lb from birthweight in 7 days, as he started at over 10lbs, no one was too worried - he settled down and put on weight steadily after that. Although he was clearly getting plenty of milk, when I first tried pumping I couldn't even get an ounce. It was impossible. However, I persisted, as I wanted to be able to have some back-up if it was needed if I couldn't be there for some reason. I persisted, without getting too stressed about the amounts. Gradually I found it became easier and that my technique improved and could fill a bottle on occasions. For me, I'm sure that, even when I had got used to expressing, I am sure that it was less effective than ds became. What I could express did not match the quantities that ds could achieve. So your little one might be getting more from you already than you think.

Best of luck and well done!

What pump ae you using? Have you tried using hand expression and a warm damp flannel to aid let down?

Remember that there is a calibration margin of error with scales as well. With weights as small as those of a newborn, a 10% difference in calibration between two sets of scales can make a big difference to the apparent weight of your baby. The midwives' stork scales are fairly inaccurate and can vary depending on how cold or warm they are since they rely on a spring. Also, has your daughter passed a lot of meconium since birth? That could account for a fair amount of the weight loss.

Even if she has lost that much weight, if she is not dehydrated, there will be no long term harm done. It sounds as though she's getting plenty of foremilk. I hope you manage to find someone who will support you well soon.

For those of us who have been in the unfortunate position of finding out our newborn is dehydrated the above comment of long term harm is very upsetting. The guilt is immense all the time!

pressie I dont think the poster intentional harm (ds1 had dehydration / dropped over a pound..... at 5lb 5 oz birth weight hugely significant and problematic!). I don't think ff him afterwards was anything but right- I now know he had a form of milk inolerance but didnt then (it was coincidental we gave soya milk as I have eczma). I don't feel any guilt whatsoever about doing what I believed was best. I now know how to allow for that intol without ff but no, don't feel guilty, I did the best for my son and never would have harmed him.

Thanks so much to all of you- it's hugely reassuring to hear about other people's experiences, and the advice is brilliant.

My plan of action is babymoon as from tomorrow! Have been so busy, and I'm looking forward to just spending some real quality time with my baby, in my pyjamas all day, and DH can make dinner when he gets in from work! I'm going to drag myself out of bed wed morning though to go to a breastfeeding cafe. What you have all said about the milk transfering made me wonder if my latch is correct after all- although many midwives have said it's fine, that hardly seems a guaruntee anymore!

By coincidence, we registered her today and the registra was also a lactation consultant for la leche league!retty much echoed Tiktok and co, so will be doing a lot of skin to skin, cudding, bonding and lazing about!

Leonie - that would be absolutely amazing, thank you so much! Will email you now!

And thank you all for your support- I'll keep you posted!

Wow- I was pumping while typing this and actually have milk in the bottle!!! It's a tiny amount, maybe one or two mls, but that's the first time milk has gone anywhere near the bottle, usually it just drips and smears round the funnel! So it must be improving a bit, especially since I had just breastfed before pumping- am crying now

Will try hand expressing tonight

Go for it, firstontheway

Yay!!