Health Visitor putting pressure on to give formula.

[newtonmummy]

Hi all,

I'm new to mumsnet, it was reccomended to me however as a good place to get some help and advice!

My little girl is 18 weeks and has been struggling for the last 5 weeks to gain weight.

She was 7lb 9.5oz born and took to breastfeeding fantastically. When she was weighed at 11 days old she had gained 10oz and she continued to gain approz 6oz a week. she had her 8 week jabs and was 11lb 9 and then for one reason and another i couldn't get her weighed for 3 weeks. when we went she had only gained 10oz in the 3 weeks, HV said not to worry she will slow down now. She went 2 weeks later and had lost 13 oz. Since then she has gained 3oz in 5 weeks and they keep putting the pressure on to give her formula. I've tried expressing but the hand pump is very tiring, i'm on the look out for a good deal on a electric breast pump.

Was just looking for some advice really.
Many thanks

carolyn.

Just to add i am expressing using the manual pump and bought a meleda mini pump but the noise of it really upsets my little girl and the breast shell is far to small so i struggle to get anything with that. I do get milk with the manual, and am trying to give her at least one bottle a day so i can see how much she is getting.

carolyn, hope mumsnet can help.

First thing to think of when something really odd happens like this is 'did you have confidence in the scales and the weigher?'

'Cos losing 13 ounces in 2 weeks - really? 13? - is very very odd, in a baby who is healthy and up until then, growing normally. Has she been ill?

It's not helpful that the HVs are simply assuming it is breastfeeding that's not 'working' - breastfeeding doesn't stop working like this.

So - what were the scales? Electronic and good quality? Was the baby weighed naked? Was the conversion from metric to imperial correct - often, it isn't. It would be worth you checking this now - you can put the metric into Google and it will convert for you.

what does she currently weigh?

was it always on the same scales?

could it be possible that at least once the scales were read wrongly? or converted incorrectly from kg to imperial or the ohter way? I have had both happen.

why are you weighing frequently?

If she is gaining now you really don't need to gve formula. besides when people say that it is silly advice because formula is not more calorific than BM anyway. It's bizarre HV world advice. Common though, sadly.

The loss would be a concern but if she is gaining now I would continue as you are (dro the bottle if you want,no real need) and just get her weighed weekly. Any reason she might have lots- illness or anything?

DS4 was a terrible gainer, I ahd GP orders etc to give formula. never did, and now he is a very happy almost one year old, walking since 9 months, no concerns at all.

Most of all try and relax, offer a few more feeds and feed her whenever you possbly can to maximise her supply and intake. And as long as she now gains steadily, relax. If she falters again, come back here froa dvice or cll a Counsellor at the ABM or similar.

Well doen on getting this far with BF,you're doing a wonderful job

(spots TikTok has turned up- you are in expert hands there)

I get really annoyed when I hear stories like this. I studied nutrition for 5 years at undergrad and at masters level. All the evidence says that breast-feeding is the best thing to do for general health and development. If you are worried but still want to breast feel and enjoy it maybe you should go and see a dietitian rather than leaving it to hv as she probably does not have a clue what she is talking about and only studied nutritional aspects for days. Trust me on this one point though a dietitian / proper nutritionist will encourage you.

I don't know enough to comment on the weight loss, but my immediate thought is that you would really notice a 13oz weight loss - your baby would surely have been ill, would be lethargic, would not be feeding, would look a lot slimmer etc. So maybe there is a problem with the scales if nothing like that has occurred.

I never had a weight loss with my baby, but my DS was a really slow gainer. 9lbs at birth but only ever gained an average of about 3oz per week and some weeks was below that. He was getting a bottle of formula a day, but it made zero difference to his weight gain! Eventually we dropped that at 8mo and his weight gain hasn't got worse! We breastfed until just a couple of days ago (he is 1 in a few days time). He is now happily on 9th centile - took until about 6-7mo for him to settle on his centile and has been fine (and HVs no problem) ever since.

Think I'm just trying to say that formula didn't make a difference to my DS's weight, and that he finally settled at a weight that was clearly right for him.

Have you tried hand expressing? I know some people find that far more effective than a pump.

Oh yes, and well done on doing so well with bf. Big pat on the back for you And as peachy says, you are in expert hands with tiktok. along with others on here, her advice kept me going several times when i hated bf at the start.

Sorry I meant breast feed - not breast feel. I am not really pervert.

Sorry I meant breast feed - not breast feel. I am not really pervert. I get a bit carried away at times.

Everything Peachy says about maximising intake is spot-on....I think there is a case for saying 'whatever happened with those weights, she is clearly ok now, so we won't worry' which is more or less what Peachy said In any case, giving formula makes no sense - if the baby needs more milk to gain, then Carolyn has the milk on tap!

There's just a little concern in my mind that the baby is still (by these figures) 10 oz less than she was 7 weeks ago, and this is still very odd.

I think in a healthy baby the reason is overwhelmingly likely to be a scales/measuring/conversion anomaly - and it would be good to get to the bottom of it, if only to say to the HV 'you are a [insert suitable description here] and you shouldn't worry mothers unnecessarily.'

Another vote for crap scales here!

Perhaps you should ask your HV why she feels formula would be better? As Peachy said there's no calorific difference with 'ordinary' formula from breast milk, the only difference is that you can see how much goes in. If your daughter is feeding on demand, content at the breast and feeding as long as she wishes then surely you can be sure she's getting enough anyway so where's the advantage to formula?

After the immediate postnatal period, I never get my babies weighed, because it just causes hassle and gives clinic people permission to say stupid unscientific things and upset me.

Instead I see if their colouring is good, whether they seem alert, what their poos are doing, whether they look plumper, and whether they are gradually growing out of their clothes. Works for us.

If I was really worried I would buy my own scales and do it myself properly, to make sure it was consistent.

Hi all

Sorry was just feeding baby,oknhope i answer all questions here!

So - what were the scales? Electronic and good quality? she was weighed on 2 sets of scales, fixed electric scales and portable electric. I presume they are good quality they are at the baby clinic, but don't really know much about scales. The scales weigh in both metric and imperial but mt H is a bith of a maths geek and did me a conversion formula on pc, so i just need to put her weight in and can check that way!

Was the baby weighed naked? yes with no nappy on

what does she currently weigh? 11b 9oz

was it always on the same scales? yes apart from when they check her on the portable ones to double check and last week when she gained 1.5 oz so last week and this week could be iffy i guess.

could it be possible that at least once the scales were read wrongly? i guess so we thought that initonally hence the checking on second set, but then she has stayed same for 2 weeks, gained 1 oz, stayed same and gained 1.5oz, then 0.5 ounce this week.

why are you weighing frequently? The clinic are telling me i have to have her weighed each week, last week i didn't take her as she was unwell and they phoned me 1 minute after the clinic shut and asked why i hadn't taken her, i explained she wasn't well, and they told me to take her to the baby clinic that afternoon at the gps as they needed to see her weight!

Both me and my husband were shocked when she lost the 13oz, she hadn't been unwell bar the snuffles, her feeding hadn't changed, she was sleeping through the night, she is alert, very much so - even the HV commented on how alert she was until they weighed her and even today one of the HV said she is so bright eyed and alert, then the second HV said but she needs to gain weight. I didn't notice her feeling lighter or her clothes getting baggy on her, it's so very strange i don't know what to make of it.

Thanks for the replies

I'd put money on the weighing being wrong and the conversion being wrong....

Have to go out now, sorry.

If she does need to gain weight, and goodness knows if she does, , then you can simply bf more often.

easy peasy.

gosh, dd2 will be 6 mos old soon and has not been weighed since she was 2 mos old. i am amazed they have the time to call you and ask you to bring her down.

When did you start checking on the second set of scales? Before or after the 13oz weight loss? It just seems so much more likely to me that there was a mistake made in weighing quite a while ago - rather than that a previously thriving baby lost 13oz in 2 weeks and the only sign it had happened was the readout on the scales.

I've been thinking this over and speaking as a mother of three breastfed babies I CANNOT see ANY way in which a baby could lose very nearly a pound in weight without you noticing - somewhere something is wrong with these weights. I really don't think it's anything wrong with your baby!

my dd2's conversion was done wrongly at birth. i was the only one who spotted it though 3 mw's were also in the room at the time.

at her 6 wk check, the hv who weighed told the other one 4.4kg when it was actually 4.14kg. when i corrected her, the second one said 'oh, it is the same thing .

had i had her weighed the following week with that error on place and she'd weigh, say, 4.25kg, it would have looked like she lost weight.

sometimes, if the mistake was earlier and unspotted, it causes a worry in the future so double checking then is useless.

Hi - I really struggled with DS weight, and was told the same thing by the H/V - to give DS formula.

In the end, I asked for a referral to a paediatrician, which was the best thing I could have done as he gave DS a thorough examination and said he was healthy and that I should continue b/fing him, the letter of which was sent to the H/Vs.

Oh, and he said that DS shouldn''t be weighed more than once a month as it was micro managing his weight and unnecessary.

[whisper] another non-weigher here. DS2 was weighed at his 6 week check and not since. He is now 4 months. Never heard a peep from the HVs.

Do you have a sympathetic GP? Often they take a much more relaxed attitude to weight than HVs, who can sometimes concentrate on the numbers at the expense of the bigger picture. If your little girl looks happy then you might be able to get the GP's "permission" to stop weighing so frequently, which would give you something to tell the HV.

I'm not sure, when she lost the 13oz, they checked her on second set of scales straight away cause i said no way she can't of lost that much weight, surely we'd of noticed! they brought second set in and weighed on them and she was the same weight.

she has always been weighed on same scales apart from when they checked the loss and last week. I don't understand, i am confused as, as you say how she could lose so much and us not notice if that makes sense (i'm a good mummy honest). But even if the scales were wrong, she still has only gained 3 oz since that time, she now weighs what she weighed at 8 weeks on same scales.

The BF support group said dont' take her, they won't notice etc they have so many babies to weigh. I was so shocked when i got the call! I feel like they are checking up on me all the time!

Its not like i'm a very young mum or anything, i'm 29, a teacher, have my own home etc etc (not that it matters)

I'm just putting her to the breast every hour or so but she just suckles but doesn't feed till about 2-3 hours after a proper feed if that makes sense?

A 10 oz gain and a 13oz loss sounds suspicious to me, can you remember which weights come from which scales? If you could plot them separately you might get two different curves that both should a reasonable growth.

aahhh, but a 3 oz gain in a week is totally normal for a baby her age. something probably went wrong 3 weighs ago, the one before the 13 oz weight loss.

But nobody needs 'permission' to stop getting their baby weighed, surely? Are we now a police state??