Baby no 2 due in 5 weeks - please help me be prepared for BF this time round!

[meep]

Right - I am being brave and creating my own thread about BP instead of lurking around others.

Have dd 19mo and BF was a disaster and I think I cried every day for about 6months because I wasn't able to do it. She got breast milk for the first 2 weeks but mostly from a syringe.

I am all geared up for dc2 - the MW's know how much it affected me last time - I am going to their BF workshop just before dc2 is due - I have friends who are still bf at 19mo and are a huge source of knowledge and support to me.

But I have some unanswered questions about what happended with dd that maybe you can help with.

Background - back to back labour - 55 hours - pethidene, syntocin drip - emergency section. Only have very hazy memoried and was pretty out of it for about 2 days after dd was born.

Day 3 in hospital and was told that dd had nearly lost 10% of her weight - so upped the feeds - resulting in bleeding nipples. Showed the MW who commented that they shouldn't be like that - I freaked and it all went downhill from there.

So.....................

1. dd came out with a very squint jaw - could that have made it difficult for her to latch on?

2. would nipple shileds have helped and allowed my nipples to heal - and should I get some in advance for this time round?

3. should I be presistent in buzzing for a midwife every time I am about to feed?

4. why did the MW have me hooked up to the milking expressing machine on day 2 when I wanted to breastfeed (nipples not cracked by then) and should I refuse this if they try to do it again?

5. how often should I be feeding a newborn - I hadn't a clue last time

6. am having an elective c-section this time round - how will this affect bf?

7. any other tips because I am totally terrified of going back to that dark horrible teary place if it doesn't work this time round.

Hi meep, I can respond to a few of your qs...

3. should I be presistent in buzzing for a midwife every time I am about to feed?
   Yes!!! I had an em CS and so for at least the 1st 24 hours I buzzed for help at each feed. Part of their job is to help - don't feel guilty for asking.

4. feed as often as they will let you, if they sleep for more than 4 hours, wake them gently (eg change nappy, tickle)

5. I am sure that I have read that it is delivery of the placenta that triggers milk production. At any rate, feed, feed feed - the more you feed, the faster the milk comes in. If all else is well, babies can wait days for milk (having colostrum I mean). My milk came in on day 3 or 4 (can't remember exactly)

6. have numbers of bf hotlines ready if you need them, find out if your hospital has a bf counsellor/advisor and when she is in.

Best of luck with the birth and the BF

also google dr jack newman who has some fantastic videos of latching on on his site. These helped me a lot, I had no idea what it looked like, and it was v helpful to see someone doing it, up close.

Thank you chibi

I've actually just had a look at the video dh took of dd's first latch - seems a bit surreal looking at it now!

There is a great bf counsellor at my hospital - I went to see her last time and she was the only person who was able to latch dd on without any pain. I was ecstatic until dd slipped off and even the fab counselor couldn't get her back on - so I ended up formula feeding in the clinic and just felt too demoralised and scared to go back.

I also never phoned a bf hotline - I just couldn't think how they could help me as I needed someone actually there to get dd latched on. I know that seems silly - but if I couldn't do it, dh couldn't do it, my experienced best friend couldn't do it - the mw had trouble doing it (yup I got my boobs out for anyone who might be able to help!) then how could someone on the phone help.

"upped the feeds - resulting in bleeding nipples. Showed the MW who commented that they shouldn't be like that"

I bf all 4 of my dc's, I got bleeding nipples EVERY time even when I was only using an expresser for a week while DS2 was in ITU.
if you do something new every 2 hours, every day it will make you sore even if the latch is perfect. Keep going and it gets better and easier.
You used to be able to get lotion to massage in to prepare your nipples for bf so they don't crack so easily, it helped me a bit, and also helped to ease the soreness. Dont know if you can still get lotion like this.
Good lick with everything

Hi Meep, I had an elective cs this time too (now nearly 6 months ago) and had no problems afterwards. I felt amazingly well after the elective - much better than my previous cs which was an emergency after 48 hrs of messing about trying to get the baby out naturally, which meant I was exhausted before the baby even arrived. Hopefully you too will feel much better this time around. Take the painkillers on time, and ask for help lifting the baby.

Anyway, I aimed for putting baby to breast every 2 hours / whenever she woke up, whichever happened first. Lansinoh cream is a complete Godsend and saved me several times from sore nips. DD wasn't great at latching on, but I found if I pulled her bottom lip down when she was on to get the correct 'pooched' lip, it worked OK and she got the hang of it fairly soon. I don't see why you need to express if you're putting the baby to the breast, if you don't want to you don't have to!

A good idea I've heard of is to have a special bag of toys that only comes out at feeding time, to occupy your other LO.

Hope you have a better experience this time round, I think the elective cs as opposed to the emergency will make a huge difference to how you feel after the op. Best of luck!

• luck not lick

thanks ladies

fruitshoot - I know I should have persevered and that is where all the guilt came from but at the time I just couldn't - I was in tears every feed and dd wouldn't even latch - just arched her back and screamed.

I used Lansinoh.

I even once remember telling dh that I had fed her and I hadn't and the poor wee thing just fell asleep on me probably ravenous

thanks GBR - that is what I am hoping for by having an elective.

Oh - another question - dh is/was convinced that it didn't work because my boobs were huge - especially the areola - don't know if that made any difference?

Hi there,

Sorry to hear about your bad experience last time, but it looks like you're doing everything you can to get a positive outcome this time around!

I would definitely make contact with people who can come and support you in person after the birth - NCT breastfeeding counsellors, women who have breastfed a lot from a baby cafe etc. Also, have the telephone helplines available as back-up.

You mentioned your daughter's jaw - a friend of mine had issues with her DS and getting him to latch effectively. She took him to a cranial osteopath who worked wonders, meaning that her DS's latch improved and he gained weight from then on. Perhaps you could get a recommendation from a friend and take your newborn along as soon as is possible, even if there are no obvious problems (helps for peace of mind I think).

In terms of buzzing for a midwife, I found that I often received very conflicting advice each time and most of it wasn't especially helpful. Could you surround yourself with breastfeeding friends during visiting hours who might be able to advise you better? (I appreciate this might be a bit of a long-shot!)

In terms of how frequently to feed, I'd try and make sure you have as much skin-to-skin as is possible. I co-slept from birth (including in the hospital) and DD was latched on pretty much constantly for first week!

Also, in the weeks between now and the birth, I'd recommend doing as much reading as you possibly can about breastfeeding (La Leche books are good), so that you're armed with knowledge and confidence and can calmly tell unhelpful/uninformed midwives/health visitors etc to bugger off when they're giving you daft information (such as using a dummy the day after birth )

Anyway, hope this helps and good luck!

large areolae make no difference (sorry if TMI)

i agree with RockSockinBunnies about possible conflicting advice from mw, but I meant don't feel bad about buzzing them to help pass you the baby - I found it v difficult to pick dd up the first day afetr my CS.

I think the JAck Newman videos helped me a lot too but more than anything was the local BFN group. It really helped just to have someone to say, 'yes, that's right' or to suggest things to help. Have you got one?

I also think - to answer some of your questions based on my experience although I am not a bf expert - expressing on day two seems premature. It can take longer for the milk to come in with a c-section, but surely the time would be better spent with baby at the breast? I had no clue how often to feed either. In the hospital they told me every three hours or more if she wants but next time I would offer every two hours and more if baby wants.

I would also take an extra pillow, preferably one of those long pillows with you as with a c-section I found the rugby ball position was the most comfy. So, you lie with the pillow along one side of you, under one arm and hold baby's head to the breast with its body curling round your side. God, hope that made sense.... It's a common position. A MW should know. ANd yes. Ask for help!

Like this withthe end of the ball you can see as the head and the other end as baby's bottom.

I hope that image made you good luck!

!

Rockinsock - meantto say we did take dd to a cranial osteopath who told us that her jaw was really squint (more than we though from looking at her) - but by that time I wasn't bf.

Hi Meep! Great idea to start a thread.

I don't know why that hospital is so obsessed with early expressing and early weighing (did the same with me). I wouldn't be surprised if the expressing was part of the nipple problem. If you ran in to problems this time then ask them to send up the BFC before hooking you up to the pump. (And if it's the weekend and she's not around, any of your friends would be delighted to come in give you any support you need )

Also the early weighing - they did the same with us, DS had lost just over 10% and they pressured us in to formula top ups. I'm pretty sure if we had waited until day 5 then his weight wouldn't have been such an issue - especially as my milk didn't come in until Day 4.

Absolutely ring for help with every feed. They won't all have helpful advice as the quality of training is very variable but they will at least will be able to help you with the mechanics of getting LO in and out of cot etc.

I aimed to feed every 2-3 hours during the day and 3 hours at night. If he wouldn't latch on I would go for some snuggly skin to skin time instead, and it was often easier to get him latched on (or at least try to) as he got dosy.

Lots of lansinoh for sore nips, definitely.

As for being large, well at size 40JJ I was convinced that this was part of my problem, not helped by this idea being reinforced by some of the staff. Sometimes it felt like some staff were reciting lines they had learned on a course without really thinking about it - such as the whole of the arreola has to be in the mouth. And I kept taking DS off and on to try and tick that box. Well he's 18 months now and it would still bloody choke him to get the whole of my arreola in his mouth!! I posted on here and got some great advice and good links for bf when you are larger. thread here

Once I worked out a position for me and DS things definitely got a lot easier, and we still use the same position now. It means I am a 2 handed breastfeeder cause I still have to support the breast he's feeding from with the outside hand, but for me it means that the latch is much easier (even now) and doesn't slip.

Well done on being so proactive about things. And any RL help you want, happy to help.

Hi Meep,

in response to your first question - my DD would never feed from the left breast (I think she may have been delivered awkwardly) so took her to an osteopath who re-aligned her and the problem as pretty much sorted. So if you feel that your new baby also has a squint jaw or perhaps shoulders were a bit stuck etc - try seeing a sacral-cranio osteopath.

And if you are having problems feeding, insist over and over again that someone shows you how to do it. Some MWs cannot bring it across well, see someone else until you feel that you understand what they are trying to tell / show you.

Best of luck, am sure you'll do well.

Totally understand. I have had very similar probs.
I do have large breasts and big nipples and bf counsellor said that should actually make it easier. I have never actually had sore nipples.
I have had cs and emcs.
I too felt I needed someone 'there' to help me, assist with latch.
Thats why bf workshop at local hospiatal was FAB. I went on the monday and then again on the wed. I was embarrassed to go on the wed, feeling 'oh I can't go again, I was there the other day'. But I was SO glad I did. Go EVERY time they have a class. They will help, correct your latch. And you will FLY with confidence. And then you will be desperate for the days to pass until the next class.
You have already spoken to bf counsellor yes. Build up a rapour with her. Phone her now. Get all the info of when classes are . Ask her if she will visit you on the ward.
Go to bf workshop aswell : check out www.babycafe. may be one near you.
And come back to Mn at the first sign of trouble/stress and let the bf experts like tiktok help you and support you.

thank you so much everyone for all your advice - sorry I haven't been back on - I can't post when I'm at work!

Big wave to Lyra75! Your RL help will be and has been invaluable! Lol about your lovely ds choking if you put the whole areola in his mouth! I will inform dh that this was not the problem!

I am actually thinking of going to see a La Leche Counsellor before the birth - just so I can sort evrything out in my head in advance. Dh has said that he can see me becoming very pre-occopied with it already and is worried for me - so think I need to speak to someone now.

Thanks again to everyone who posted - it has made me feel much more positive!