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Infant feeding

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Original poster

Tight labial frenulum causing BFing problems. HV says nothing will be done. Any experience/advice out there?

39 replies

LackaDAISYcal · 14/01/2009 19:45

DS has had problems latching since he was born; typically not being able to maintain good suction, clucky feeding, lots of wind and causing me a lot of pain and discomfort as well as several blocked ducts, three lots of mastitis and a milk blister all in the space of ten weeks (and I feel the burn again this evening )

I had concerns about the frenulum connecting his top lip to the gum, and following some links from Grendle spoke to the HV about it. She confirmed today that it is very thick and tight and connects to the underside of his top gum. She said that this is probably the cause of my BFing issues and noted that when he is latched his top lip isn't flared out as normal. She also said that because DS is thriving (on the 75th centile), it's unlikely that anything will be done about it, if indeed anything can be done.

I've made an appointment to see my GP, but in the meantime has anyone had experience of this with their DC, what effect has it had on BFing long term as things seem to be getting worse for me, not better and does anyone know if clipping it can be done in the UK and what effect it will have on his latch.

Bit of an odd one, but thanks for any input

OP posts:
thisisyesterday · 14/01/2009 19:47

I have heard about having the top one snipped, so I know it's possible.
you need to speak to a lactation consultant.

this is a list of places that divide tongue ties.
I would find one close to you and ring them and ask them about the upper labial frenulum... they'll probably know the most!

thisisyesterday · 14/01/2009 19:49

btw, when we had ds2's tongue tie snipped the lovely, lovely lady who did it said that it matters not a jot if baby is gaining weight. they will always snip if it is causing problems with breastfeeding.

interestingly, ds2's top one is very thick and tight and has caused a gap between his 2 top teeth.
today he fell over and tore it!!!! so it is no longer connected. it bled a lot but he seems fairly unconcerned about it

maisie215 · 14/01/2009 19:53

My DS is now 12 weeks and I had tons of problems with breast feeding initially and had to give up at 5 weeks because he was losing weight He has since made up all the weight and more on formula though. It turned out that the problem with me was a bit of retained placenta which meant I wasn't producing enough milk.

However, one of the possibilities for the low milk supply that we looked into was a tongue tie. I live in CAmbridgeshire and there is a lady in the area here who will come and privately clip the tie. She charges about £100 (I think) and that includes 6 follow up sessions. If she assesses the baby and there is no tongue tie she doesn't charge. We never ended up meeting her but her details were on www.lcgb.org which also have details of other people in other areas.

Hope that is helpful and you are able to continue with the feeding. Bottle feeding has its advantages but I was hugesly sad to have to give up breast feeding.

Original poster
LackaDAISYcal · 14/01/2009 20:02

thanks thisisyesterday; Manchester is closest for me so I'll try calling tomorrow. I was sure that something wpuld be done with tongue tie if it were causing Bfing problems, but she seemed to think only if baby was FTT. But surely if it meant mum was going to give up BFing then that constitutes a BFing problem?

Thanks maisie. Unfortunately there is no-one on that list anywhere near me.

I'm concerened that as tongue tie is little understood then lip tie will be even less so. And also concerend about his future gappy smile if nothing is done now.

OP posts:
Original poster
LackaDAISYcal · 14/01/2009 20:04

sorry you had to give up maisie .

I don't want to resort to formula (been there done that with my DS1) so I'll have to put up with the pain and discomfort if it can't be snipped.

OP posts:
thisisyesterday · 14/01/2009 20:12

i agre totally that giving up BF is a pretty serious problem! i think you';ll find that any of the people who actually clip tongue-ties are prettyy sympathetic in that way.
mine was great and she runs a bf cafe and all sorts. to her mind it was ALL about the breastfeeding, that was the main reason for it being done.
hopefully you'll get through to someone who will know about it.

my big fatty was def not FTT, though I realise it is a slightly diff situation being the lower frenulum which is that much more common with bf problems. but they were really sympathetic and very helpful. and the bf probsd we had disappeared almost immediately once it was snipped, so I would imagine it'll be similar for the upper one.

thisisyesterday · 14/01/2009 20:12

how old is ds btw?

Original poster
LackaDAISYcal · 14/01/2009 20:14

He's 10 and a half weeks.

OP posts:
thisisyesterday · 14/01/2009 20:17

hard to find anything on google that isn't american,
but did come across thsi:

The Labial Frenum is a little tag of tissue in the center of the upper and the lower lip that attaches the lip to the gums. It too is not especially useful, and sometimes causes orthodontic or periodontal problems if the attachment on the gums is too close to the teeth. If it becomes a problem, we usually simply cut it . This is most often done on children if the attachment of the frenum is too "high" and causes a diastema (space) between the adult teeth. The procedure is called a "frenectomy". An interesting thing to note is that a glancing blow to the face will generally rip this structure, and a ripped labial frenum, in combination with other "recurrent" bodily injuries is considered to be a legal indication of child abuse.

which suggests that it isn't a major procedure

Original poster
LackaDAISYcal · 14/01/2009 20:25

Thanks TIY

We had considered DIY surgery (not seriously), but not if buggering it up and needing A&E will lead to allegations of child abuse!!

OP posts:
thisisyesterday · 14/01/2009 20:28

hehe, ds2 has managed to break his by falling down 4 steps today. i didn't even see him hit his face at all, so it can't be that hard to break lol

Original poster
LackaDAISYcal · 14/01/2009 20:30

I hope he's OK

I'll keep you posted as to what I find out tomorrow.

OP posts:
Grendle · 14/01/2009 22:42

If you don't get anywhere with Manchester, then I'd suggest calling the Southampton team (the number should be on the UNICEF babyfriendly page of places that divide tongue ties). I know it's nowhere near you, and am not suggesting you go there. However, they're the ones who pioneered this stuff in the UK so if anyone knows about labial ties, I would guess they would be a good place to try asking and they may be able to advise on other more local contacts or speak to someone local for you perhaps?

Original poster
LackaDAISYcal · 14/01/2009 22:53

thanks grendle

OP posts:
thisisyesterday · 16/01/2009 10:43

lackadaisycall, did you manage to get hold of anyone? how did it go?

swissuk · 08/03/2009 22:48

Hi LackaDAISYcal. I am new on this forum and I guess this is an old thread now but I have the same problem as you with my daughter's upper labial frenulum.
I am living in Switzerland at the moment and they don't treat it or won't for years.
I really want her to have it treated sooner rather than later. We had huge problems breast and bottle feeding and now her two front teeth are through she has such a big gap. The lip is quite tightly connected to the gum too.
I have contacted Southampton GH. Haven't heard back yet.
Have you had any success finding info or help? My daughter is 18 months now. I guess too old for them to do it because of breastfeeding but too young to have it done for dental reasons?

Original poster
LackaDAISYcal · 09/03/2009 10:58

hi swissuk

sorry I didn't see this last night.

I haven't taken it any further tbh as his feeding has gotten much much better since I posted and he feeds well and it's pain free for me now. I have spoken with my GP about it though, and we have agreed to keep an eye on it and see what happens when his teeth come in and then think of a referral at that point.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

OP posts:
SnowlightMcKenzie · 09/03/2009 11:14

Hello,

very helpful thread.

Does anyone know if bfing can start well with this but GET worse because of it?

My DD definately has it (now 6 months) but we managed until recently, now her top lip tucks in when she feeds and I'm getting very sore.

TIA

Original poster
LackaDAISYcal · 09/03/2009 12:23

hi snowlight

afaik it can get worse. I had some links somewhere so I'll see if I can find them and link later.

OP posts:
EachPeachPearMum · 09/03/2009 12:31

Interesting- not heard of it in babies... but I had surgery on mine when I was 12 or so- simply because the gap between my 2 front teeth was so big due to the frenulum.
Much better to snip now if possible, and of course, if it's affecting feeding.
We had DS' tongue-tie snipped last week- feeding improved immediately, it was done by paediatrician at our local hospital.

swissuk · 09/03/2009 13:31

Thanks so much for your replies.

I think it can get worse as they get older with feeding. We had a horrible time with breast and bottle. It took her 40 mins to drink 50 ml Her lip tucks in too if she drinks from a bottle.

Now though her teeth have come through and she has a big gap between them. I managed to contact Southampton G Hospital and am waiting to see what they say about it. So far people have said wait until she is 7 or older. But I kind of don't want to!

EachPeachPearMum - how long did it take for the gap to close after you had it snipped?

I will let you know what the Pediatrician says. Hopefully he will reply today.

MIAonline · 09/03/2009 13:49

SwissuK, I will be interested to hear what they say. My DS had tongue tie snipped as a baby but recently we noticed the big gap in his 2 front teeth are caused by the lip tie. Don't know why they didn't pick it up at the time so would be grateful to hear how you get on as not sure what we should do

swissuk · 09/03/2009 13:57

Hi MIAonline. It is frustrating. Some places check for it and snip it at birth. Others don't even recognise it. Now it is much more complicated to get it done

How old is your DS now?

MIAonline · 09/03/2009 14:10

He is 2. It is very annoying as the tongue tie wasn't found until he was 4 weeks and after a nightmare few weeks of BF. Once spotted though it was such a quick and easy thing to get snipped, DS didn't even wake up!
I just wish they had spotted his lip tie at the same time, as presumably it would have been just as easy to have had that snipped too. It should be standard for Midwives to check for it, especially as there is such a push for BF and it can have such a dramatic effect on BF and as it is so easy to rectify at an early age.
How old is your DD?

Carameli · 09/03/2009 14:11

Hi,

I hope you manage to get somewhere with Manchester if not like someone else said contact the Southhampton team to try toher options.
I don't have experience of upper frenulum problems but ds had tongue tie and it made bf a nightmare. He had his snipped at 4wks and in the ward they advised me to feed him straight away after it had been done. Was a 30second procedure. Bf was blissful afterwards, I had no idea such a small snip could make such a difference. So insist on getting it done whether he is gaining weight or not.