Help! Back in bad feeding cycle and getting desperate :(

[MrsHD]

Hello. DS is 9 days old (I know, I'm such a lightweight!) and was 10lbs 4oz at birth so is a voracious feeder. The constant feeding was driving me insane, but we got into a cycle of going an hour from the end of one feed to the start of the next and he fed so much better, more actively and for longer and I felt better having breaks between feeds.

Yesterday he slept a lot in the day, and I had a feeling last night and today might be payback. It wasn't an awful night, but previously a 2am formula feed (with boob before and sometimes after) has filled him up enough for him to go back to sleep. It sort of did last night but much rocking etc required. Today he's rooting continually but feeding badly if/when I put him to the boob within an hour. He's making such an awful noise I feel I have to feed him, but then he's asleep within 30 secs. I thought we'd got through this but now my heart just sinks. He had a 3h 40m nap earlier but has now been awake three hours so must be tired - and hungry. How do we break the cycle without resorting to formula in the daytime (swore I never would) to get him full enough for another decent sleep??

Must go, he's bringing the house down despite a three minute feed then two minute doze about 10 mins ago. Maybe he's ill?

oh you poor thing - just when you though tyou had it cracked

they do this - even the good bits are 'just a phase'

have you a sling so he can feed/nap at will and you can at least walk about?

Mmm, that's interesting. Just rocked him in his car seat and he fell asleep almost immediately - maybe it's more of a sleep issue? Perhaps I need to put my efforts more into helping him get off to sleep at regular intervals than feeling I need to get my boobs out all the time?

I do have a sling, we were given it, but I didn't get on with one with DD so haven't tried this time. I had a section too which doesn't make it easy to carry weights, but walking around with DS does keep him amused and sometimes he drops off but doesn't usually brook being put down. Sometimes you get away with it, sometimes you don't!

No idea how long this nap will last - 5 mins or three hours? Am eating something then will head to the sofa for a doze myself.

Some babies just don't seem to sleep. My advice, if you can bear it, and you want to make the breastfeeding work, is to just go with it for a day or so. It's probably a growth spurt. His seemingly continual suckling will bring in more milk in a day or so which will satisfy him and re-regulate the feeding until the next growth spurt. 10 days isn't unusual, neither is 3 weeks, or 3 months.

MrsHD - do you know anyone who might have a bettery operated swing they could lend you - this way they get the movement needed to fall asleep and yet you dont have to carry them - I found a sling really painful after a section - especially with a big baby.

And at 9 days your supply will still be building up - does he have to have formula in the night? a missed feed will make your body think it doesnt need as much milk and so it will take longer for the supply to calm down into more of a routine I would have thought?

I had mad feeding frenzies at 10-14 days too (well, not me... )

If he's not really interested in milk when he gets it though, perhaps he just wants to be near you? Can you see if he'll settle in your arms or a sling?

Thanks. I have given formula in the night, but BF before and afterwards which - perhaps naively - I hoped would keep my supply sorted out. My supply seems to be fine as there's always milk dribbling out of me and all over his face when he pulls off. I'm no doubt being unrealistic about what to expect at night, but I don't remember DD being so slow to settle after night feeds so assumed that as DS didn't settle straight after a night feed that he wasn't satisfied - esp as he's rooting again 5 mins after pulling off, aaargh!

Anyway night feeds are one thing, but I think partly in the daytime it's a tiredness issue. He does seem to fight sleep (oh joy) so gets into a vicious circle of too tired to feed, too hungry to sleep. He's still dozing now so I'm about to head to the sofa.

hope you've slept MrsHD. I know what you mean about the not settling after a feed - my ds always did this but my dd almost never did in the night - she just wanted to play. Really very annoying. We ended up with my partner bringing her downstairs at 4am after the last feed so that I could get some sleep but it started to improve after a few weeks when her day/night bodyclock had sorted itself out.

Re the formula night feed. Isnt it easier to feed from a bottle as well though? so the baby gets used to doing much less work for the milk?

They normally 'wake up' about 2 weeks old though - at least mine did - and start hollering for milk all day - I would treat this time as a time for you to sleep a lot before that starts...

Sorry, just thinking again about this business of going with it - I would if he was feeding so frequently but really properly. It's harder to believe it's the right thing to do when he dozes off after 5 mins, that's just gruelling and feels like it's achieving nothing.

Should just add re formula - we use a syringe, in an effort to avoid him getting lazy about bf. Far from sure formula at night is the answer though - just wish I knew what was!

I think you're right at this stage they are sleeping for really quite long periods - has he been weighed? how are his nappies? if all that is ok then you can relax a bit I think.

I got a bit caught out with my dd because I forgot just how small a newborns tummy was - I remembered feeding my ds when he was much older...

oh and [whispers] when you're sure your supply is ok you can use a dummy. I had to swallow my hypocrisy about them and used one for dd and it was easy to get rid of at 12 weeks and really helped her sleep/spaced her out between feeds.

fwiw she was a big baby and actually less demanding of food than her average sized brother...

Re the settling after a night feed....is your ds co-sleeping or in his own crib?

DD was all but impossible to settle in her basket at night for about 10 weeks after she came home so having sworn I would never have a baby in bed with us we ended up co-sleeping a lot. I just came to the conclusion that she preferred to stay colse plus it was cold that spring and I think the temperature change woke her up.

Hi all. He's been asleep nearly three hours now and I think that was the problem, he was getting overtired and very cross. He does seem to fight sleep so I need to help him with the naps I think.

He's in a cot at night as I just cannot relax with him in the bed, and on the odd occasion I've fed him lying down in bed, if he doesn't want to go to sleep afterwards it ain't happening for anyone. Having said that, after a lying down feed this morning he did stay asleep in our bed for three hours (so he's had his two long naps today now), but that was to do with feeding to sleep. Feeding to sleep not ideal, but at 9 days I can live with it!

I'm just finding it slow/non-existent progress atm. He's gaining weight fine, nappies are fine, there's nothing wrong beyond my expectations! Doesn't help that due to the c-sec I can't really get out, can't drive, so just feeling a bit trapped and helpless. Not usually like this so sure it will pass and I know I just need to go with it. Feeding lots in the night easier I suppose if I can get him to sleep in the day and catch up on my own sleep. I'll feel better if we don't use formula but sometimes...!

Hi there - glad you've had a good afternoon - forgot to mention that with my demanding ds I often had to give him 3 sides at this stage as well - he must have been just building up my supply - not getting anything then but making sure there would be some more the next day...

There will be plenty of time for getting out and about in the weeks to come as well - and you dont want to go reopening your scar or anything - get people to come round and make you tea, get a stack of dvds lined up to watch.

Did you have a section last time? It can be very different to how you expect and really quite difficult. Make sure you tell the hv how you feel if she asks as well.

MrsHD, feeding to sleep is normal and a good thing ....why would it not be?

He does this because he is a baby. He wears nappies because he is a baby. He waves his arms around and kicks his legs randomly because he is a baby. He is unpredictable in his sleeping and so on because he is a baby.

None of these things are 'bad habits' you have to break - they're a normal part of his life! He grows out of all of them as he matures and develops.

Not sure what 'progress' you would need or want to see in a baby of such a young age - I think you might be micro-analysing his noises, his sleeps, his feeds and his timings, and it's pointless 'cos it will all be different tomorrow

MrsHD are you sure he's properly hungry, or just he just like to suck himself off to sleep?

He sounds just like my DS2, who's 10 wks - awake for hours at a time, constantly appearing to want to feed but not always taking much. Miseralbe all the time, couldn't put him down

When he was about 8 wks, we decided to try something else as what we were doing didn't seem to make anyone happy.

I decided not to feed him any less than 3 hours apart. ( he was older than yours though, maybe go for 2 hours) I'll probably get flamed for this, but I felt he wasn't really hungry, just that I was misreading his signals. So when he started rooting, chewing his hands and chuntering after about 1 1/2 hours (when I'd normally have tried to feed him)I plugged the dummy in and went for a walk in the buggy. He immediately fell asleep, and woke up after another hour and a half, bringing us nicely to 3 hours. He then fed really well.

Dh took him out in the afternoon to stretch him out again, and once again he fell asleep immediately.

I realised he likes to suck himself to sleep and I was confusing his sleepy signs for hunger.

At home, swaddling him has hugely helped him drop off to sleep - I can't take him out in the buggy every time as I have DS1 to think of too, and it's been so darn cold! If I time it right, I can swaddle him, pop the dummy in and plonk him in the cot after a quick cuddle and he's off to sleep on his own - hurray! The dunmmy is key though, he likes to suck to sleep - but I've noticed he's getting less reliant on it already.

Some of this may be worth a try for you, though I understand he's very young still, so not worth forcing the issue.

HTH

Jojay, you're right to be cautious - all you have described is a perfectly fine 'experiment' with caring for an eight week old....but as you say, not for a younger baby.

MrsHD - spreading the feeds out and ignoring feeding cues is not right for a baby of your DS's age.

Not being critical, just factual

Hi. Yes, getting the message very clearly from everything I'm reading that giving the formula isn't helping and that making him wait for feeds isn't helpful either, though in my defence I've only got him going an hour between feeds (ie end one start next) if he's fairly easily distractible, not if he's obviously really keen. I think I expected a madly rooting baby to feed efficiently rather than doze off after 5 mins, and the dozing off meant I was misreading something, like Jojay felt, or doing something wrong, but learning now that's not the case. DS is interested in his thumb but doesn't have control of it yet, interesting to see if anything changes when he can happily plug it in!

Interesting about swaddling. DS sleeps in a grobag which isn't compatible with swaddling, but could try it for naps. Anyway all I can think about right now is that I'm getting out of the house tomorrow and we have visitors in the afternoon so life will feel a tiny bit more normal, hurray!

It sounds like you're really feeling quite cooped up and that the arrival of your newborn on top of the upheaval of a c-section is a little bit overwhelming for you at the moment.

Life with a newborn is a bit like being on another planet really, and certainly not what I think most adults would recognise as 'normal'. In the midst of the milky chaos with lack of sleep and the adjustment of a new and demanding person in the house it can feel endless. It will pass. And sooner than you think. For now, I wonder if it might be helpful to give yourself strategies for coping with each day? Could you try to focus on the here and now and avoid planning ahead to much? Live in the moment with this feed and your lovely new baby. You could try spending some time cuddling skin-to-skin on your chest (arranging your baby carefully, so that your scar is not going to get trampled). Some babies love being massaged =there's boudn to be info on mumsnet somewhere about this!

Some mums find it helpful to get rid of all the clocks so that they're not tempted to time each feed and interval between each feed. Consider making the TV your best friend for the next week or so -if you have an older child at home, then it'll probably be cbeebies, or if not order a dvd box set that you think you might enjoy. Most mums find the lack of 'me' time in the first 6 weeks really hard to cope with. Is there any way you can plan something that you would like to do for yourself for no more than 30 mins each day? Don't plan when to do it, just plan what you would like to do (e.g. going for a walk, reading one chapter or a book, reading part of the newspaper etc). Then, when the opportunity arises, maybe if dh/dp is around to take the baby, jump at it and indulge yourself in your planned 'treat'.

Don't forget to get your visitors to do some useful things while they visit too .

Oh yes, completely forgot, newborns are naturally quite sleepy when feeding. breast compressions can be really helpful for keeping them feeding actively.

I didn't think you should use gro-bags until 3 mths? Definitely try swaddling, mine loved it.

I'm afraid I agree with everyone else, sit down, feet up and go with it! Get others to do evrything else, housework, winding, nappies etc etc. Then if it all gets too much, whack him in the buggy and go for a stroll round the block, doesn't have to be anywhere fancy! Slings are also great! Means you can carry and do stuff too!

Try to stay off the formula. It's babd for your baby and bad for your milk supply

grobags are officially 10lbs to prevent slipping down the bag - the OPs baby is over that I think...