AArrgh 20 days in and BF going down the toilet

[moaningminnie2020]

Any advice welcome, DS is 20 days old and I had been exc BF. Really wanted to BF longer than the three months DD had, but at first weigh in at 13 days he had lost a load of weight, birth weight 7lb 6.5, went to 6lb9.

I was shocked as he had been feeding happily, latches beautifully and seems settled, wetting nappies etc.

HV said to just strongly encourage him to feed more, so I've been waking him for feeds through the days and encouraging him all I can but he is only feeding for a few mins then goes to sleep and won't take any more, even if I change his nappy to wake him up, tickle his feet, reduce his clothing, you name it.

Weighed again at 19 days, lost another ounce. He looks like a scrawny scrap of a thing and I sadly agreed with HV to offer him top ups of formula or EBM if I can express enough. With DD once a bottle came in the BF just started to die as she much preferred a bottle - any bottle, EBM or formula. I tried the cup/spoon but it just made him very cross.

HV reckons that he may feed better when he's experienced the joy of a full tummy and is stronger when he's put a bit of fat down...I just think I might be stuffed and he's going to end up FF alone very soon

Is there any hope?

It sounds like you are doing really well.I bf both mine and IIRC both had a period of weight loss,the bf baby "CHARTS" differntly to the bottlefedbabies on those red book wotsits.If you are happy bf then I would say continue and he will get back eventually,though I am no expert.You really need Tik tok 9BFcounsellor on here) or Hunker Munker who is a bfexpert

It seems as if he is a happy baby from what you have described.Keep at it if you feel thats right for you.Hoping experts come through soon

agree with sleepycat- if he's content with wet nappies, try to persist and not worry.

some babies stay in the initial sleepy phase longer. he'll maybe just take milk little and often for a bit.

If he is feeding happily and producing lots of wet nappies, I would be tempted to diregard the charts, to some extent. You might find he has a period of cluster feeding and puts on a shed-load of weight all of a sudden. You are doing a great job by the sounds of things, and it is still early days- don't give up hope just yet!

Start a thread with Tiktok or Hunkermunker in the title,if they don't see it tonight they may well do in the morning.Both very helpfulI can vouch for that

DD was a little bugger to feed but she gained a good 7oz in that first week and a half or so, he is much better at feeding when he does it properly - he feeds a few times a day fairly 'thoroughly' but the others are quick snacks - if he was gaining even a little weight I'd be happy to wait and see.

I'm not a huge subscriber to the charts, I know here they still use the charts for FF babies, but I am genuinely concerned now about the weight loss and the fact he still didn't gain ANY when I was feeding him as often as possible.

I have started expressing today and will use that for the top ups when I can and FF the others - I know he will be OK if he does end up FF but I really didn't want to stop anytime soon - its just far too early. He was also an EMCS after failed VBAC so I've got a whole 'can't give birth properly, can't feed him properly' guilt trip going on

Will pop back in the morning and hope to catch Tiktok or hunker...evryone I've spoken to in RL just says hmm he's lazy! And all the BF resources seem to concentrate on problems with position and latch etc, which are not an issue for us, so I feel a bit stuck tbh.

Thanks for the reassurance though, will persevere for as long as I can.

Will he stay latched on when starting to doze off? My baby often dozed off, but if I caught him at the eyes fluttering stage and did breast compressions- hand expressed into his mouth, he would regain interest and not unlatch. Even if he fell asleep I could sometimes keep him nursing this way.
Also switching sides as soon as eyelids started to droop, it was literally back and forth every few minutes several times!
Also, you'd think turning the lights on would help wake them up, but it can make them close their eyes if they are tired, dim lighting/dark can actually work better for a newborn, awake gazing up at you at night, asleep all day!

If you are expressing, you could try doing it at the same time as bf. This is usually recommended for using the baby to get a good let down for the pump, but if you can express well, I'm not sure, but perhaps it could work the other way, and the pump could help get the let down on his side, keeping him interested?! Saves time too + the noise might help keep him awake!

Try not to feel guilty, and good luck.

Have you tried switch feeding? As soon as his active sucking tails off, swap sides, the increased flow should encourage active sucking again. Swap back again when it tails off again; you can swap sides as many times as you like each feed. This method increases milk volume transferred to the baby quite effectively.

Forgive the suggestion, but have you seen a trained bf counsellor? Maybe get their opinion on whether anything could possibly be changed with your latch. I appreciate that everything may well be fine, as you say, but sometimes their trained eyes can spot an infinitessimally small adjustment which makes a big difference.

How frequently does he feed? And does he sleep for long stretches at night?

Oh yes, breast compressions, like maygirl said. Will increase his milk intake.

have you looked up breast compressions on the jack newman site? very useful for getting a sleepy baby to feed, i think. good luck, if you pump the top-ups then at least you're keeping your supply up.

i'd be tempted to have someone check your latch as well, of course, no harm in that. good luck, and congratulations. and fortunately you have dd so you know already that there is more to being a parent than simply bfing (without at all wishing to undermine your desire to do it).

x-posts with vlc. deffo switch feed too. i do that AAALL the time...

how are things with you and dd2 aitch? update your thread for us.

(apologies for hijack OP)

Will def try the switching sides but once he's gone it's very hard to get him interested again.

Someone else suggested to me about lifting his chin to encourage him to still take the milk while drowsy but it didn't seem to help. Overnight and this am he has not fed properly at all, now messing about at the breast, mouth open shaking head side to side Stevie Wonder-style.

He has taken 2.5 oz formula and 2oz EBM as top ups though but seems more sleepy than ever, going to speak to HV again later today

I've googled for lactation consultants in this area but doesn't seem to be any, may give the NCT breastfeeding line a call later to see if they have anyone local, I have managed to express, a bit, twice this am so going to keep trying, been nice to have the support if no magic cure lol.

It's quite common for babies who are given bottles to become unsettled at the breast because they have to work to get the milk - bottles are easier. A few other thinsg to think about:
Check his mouth for white spots (thrush). Have you changed anything in your diet recently?
I know its hard but keep offering him bm. Try a darkened room with lots of skin to skin or a nice warm bath to relax you both and help your let down. While topping up might be a short term solution - it will have a long term effect on your milk supply so it's best to try to get to the root of the problem and solve it. Phoning NCT is a good idea and also try La Leche League - they may have bfc/meetings in your area.

Kellymom usually answers all my breastfeeding concerns.

I hope things improve soon.

minnie - you are right to take this seriously and to do all you can to fix it. Scrawny babies who are losing weight and who sleep rather than feed are not 'lazy' but in quite urgent need of having their breastfeeding improved...the info here about switch nursing, compression and expression is very good. It may be your HV is right and as a temp measure, formula may help - but bf has to be worked on alongside this, and for this you need to speak to and probably see someone who knows what they are looking for.

Hard to do much on a talkboard - try and get someone you trust today.

is there perhaps a bfc at the hospital where you gave birth?

The main thing you can do is to offer the breast every time he needs a feed, and then express as much as possible to keep your milk supply up, and keep up the amount of breastmilk he's getting. Try to express after every feed if you can, if he's been messing around.

Definitely ring the nct and see if they've got any breastfeeding counsellors nearby, or see if you've got a drop-in somewhere nearby.

He fed a bit better at lunchtime, on the breast, and I've managed to express 3 times so far today. He took 3oz EBM as a top up after last feed.

Let down seems fine, if he pulls off during a feed his face gets sprayed with milk and it poured out on its own while I was having a bath earlier.

AFAIK, the hospital only offers support from their 'infant feeding support workers' which are basically care assistants/auxialaries with extra training (In house training rather than NCT or LLL, I asked)

I have emphasised to HV that I know if he's not feeding from the breast then my supply will disappear, obviously I can't carry on excl BF if he's wasting away but I really don't want to stop yet...and I know that pumping doesn't stimulate supply anywhere near as much as a baby does.

But it's the worst of both worlds, BF plus expressing plus formula, I'm going to really struggle once DH isn't here to help with DD, he's back to work soon.

Bit happier he's been a bit more alert this pm though, will keep going for now...

minnie - not true about pumping being not as good as the baby, really. It may be true sometimes, but a baby who is not feeding effectively from the breast may not turn in anything like as good a 'performance' as the pump.

I think in your case pumping and/or hand expressing would defintely be worth it, in addition to all the direct bf you are doing.

I agree that you need some 1-2-1 help from someone qualified. You could try looking on these sites to see if there are any support groups near you.

Association of Breastfeeding Mothers

Baby Cafe

Breastfeeding Network

Breastfeeding support groups in Scotland

If not, or you don't have time to search all the lists then telephone the National Breastfeeding Helpline (0844 20 909 20), explain your situation and that you want to be put in touch with someone local to you who can support you. They may be able to track someone down for you.

You can also try looking for a local lactation consultant. The list specifies which are private and which do NHS work.

Grendle - thanks for those links, will have a look. I've seen the breastfeeding network one before for advice on medicines etc for work purposes but the others are great.

Fed reasonably well again early evening but has had 10oz altogether in top ups today, 50% EBM and 50%formula. HV is ringing tomorrow.

She's been very supportive of my wish to continue the BF but the advice she's been giving me doesn't seem neccessarily very BF friendly, which is why I want to look for further help - eg am giving EBM as top ups because I suggested it (she was suggesting FF), and expressing to keep helping supply for same reason. I think she means well but I need something more BF friendly.

I may still end up weaning onto 100%FF sooner than I wanted but I'd like to at least mix feed for as long as it's feasible.