BF not going well - my own fault. Advice and help needed.

[abbymeg]

It's been a bit of a rollercoaster.

DS was topped up with formula from Day 1, despite best intentions. He went on to develop jaundice which made him incredibly difficult to wake up; when I took him to hospital I was told to keep topping him after every feed, as he was hovering near 10% weight loss.

I had 8 different MWs and a paediatrician (sp?) check latch and tell me that it was fine (Dr also said he has a small tongue tie but it didn't appear to affect feeding); however I saw yet another MW after returning back from hospital and found out that it wasn't fine, but she helped me and things seemed to be going well, to the point that I took her advice and knocked off all the formula feeds except through the night - though I would still BF first.

However, DS isn't gaining weight very well. He is 3 weeks tomorrow; he was last weighed on Friday (17 days) and he was 9oz under birth weight, though he had gained 7 oz in 12 days. He also hasn't had a dirty nappy for nearly 2 days which I know can be a sign of weight loss as it has happened before, so I'm worried weight might have gone down again. He only tends to do one poo a day.

Yesterday he started cluster feeding intensively - he was switching breasts from 4pm-1.30am, when I finally relented and topped him up (I hate giving him a bottle). He slept from 2am - 7am. Today, he fed for an hour (30mins each side) from 7; I then started feeding him at 10.30 and he fed continually - switching sides - until 3.30 when I gave him some more formula because I'm scared I'm not feeding him right and didn't know what else to do. I don't think he was 'dummying' me - his jaw was going nearly the entire time, and he only dropped off once, but woke within a few minutes and started again. He did mess about at times - spitting out the nipple and crying.

I should mention that he has had a dummy, which he settled with a couple of nights ago and didn't take the formula feed - I was really pleased, but then things have gone downhill again. He refused the dummy today.

I would appreciate any help. I know I have made lots of mistakes and I'm feeling really rubbish about it all. I'm guilty that he's had any ff; I'm cross at the very misleading and conflicting advice I've had from MWs; and most of all I'm scared that I'm still starving him 3 weeks later.

Don't worry about the dirty nappy. Wet nappies are all you need.

He's cluster feeding to ask your body for more milk. Which it will make but there will be a 'lag time' he just has to put up with.

Maybe he actually pogs out and sleeps for a lengthy time - then wakes up thinking his throats been cut!!?

I'd expect this age to feed 2 to 4 hourly, with bonkers constant feeding sessions thrown in now and again, or fairly regulary. Particulary at night.

You haven't made mistakes at all, he's 3 weeks old and the only thing that has kept him well and flourishing is your feeding [a few top ups haven't supplied all his needs have they]. Leave the jaundice behing yo as that is passed and is over and you got through it so well done you!!!

Conflicting information will always plauge us as there is no hard and fast right and wrong - just things to try and thhings to chuck out as rubbish.

He might be thinking of putting on some more weight now - hence the increase in demands from him. This weight gain might take a few days or a week to translate to the scales - so don't panic.

Be cool - you are doing it! Accept the incredible nights and utterly confusing days as a normal day on the life of a bf mum and babe and the pressure seems less huge. There will be no pattern or predictability for the forseable future.

Should read = leave the jaundice behind you...

Hope you get lots more advice from really experienced feeders so am bumping for you.

I'm good on the facts and figures but have only fed one so haven't loads of experience to share.

I'd be giving myself a massive pat on the back if I were you - think how far you have come!!!! And think how exhausting it has been so take heart from your successes as worrying is totally knackering as well. x

Hi Abby

I just wanted to let you know that 3 weeks is classic growth spurt time. My daughter (who otherwise would feed for about 5 minutes) spent a few days frantically cluster feeding for hours at a time when she was this age. She also did that fussing thing, which I think she did when my milk slowed (as I found to be usual for me in the first few minutes after let-down). I remember feeling like she wouldn't leave me alone and as though I had really had enough. So please don't automatically assume something is wrong because he wants to feed loads.

Someone wiser than me can no doubt recommend what to do about the bottles and how to make sure he's eating enough.

Honestly, it sounds to me like you are doing really well in some less than straightforward circumstances.

A 3-week old baby should normally be having plenty of dirty nappies, not just wet (it's later that it's OK for them to space out). It doesn't by itself indicate that there's a problem, but is an indication that there could be.

If you can stand it, let him keep up the cluster feeding. It's really not unusual at this age.

Have you seen a bfc? Are you confident that your latch is now right? What does the bfc think about the tongue tie? I think seeing someone in person would be a good plan, if you can.

People who know more will be along soon, but I just wanted to stay, hang on in there, stop beating yourself up. You're tryiing to do your best for your baby with conflicting advice. It's really hard.

I had simialr pressures and topped up too. Gradually, I did less and DD was exclusively BF from three to six months, when we started giving solid food.

You can get it back, and until you do feel happy that you're a great mum who's trying to do the best for her baby.

treedelivery thanks for your positive words - it's hard to see how far we've come when we seem to be hitting another hurdle. I appreciate you reminding me!

Hi MrsHappy hope you are well. Thanks for reply - on the one hand I'm telling myself that it's normal, but on the other can't help worry that it's not quite right and he's not getting enough. It's hard keeping the faith when so many issues have cropped up - like jaundice, bad skin rash, big weight loss. I refuse to give up though!

portandlemon I was worried about lack of poo, as first MW expressed concern over this, then found he'd lost a lb in weight. He had settled down and slowly started to regain, but I'm concerned we've gone the other way. I will be seeing both a MW and HV tomorrow, but I am getting a bit sceptical of the advice I get. Was seriously considering getting a bf councillor to visit, but don't know how to get one or what they cost. I live in leeds, in case anyone knows.

Since posting, he woke up, fed for 10 minutes and has fallen fast asleep again. Apologies for any typos, am typing one-handed and cuddling sleeping babe in the other!

x-posted. Thanks LaTrucha - again, kind words are really appreciated at the moment. It's good to hear that ff can be successfully cut out - so many stories I've read about top-ups go the other way.

I'm sure when I remember back my dd had a dirty nappy once or twice a week from a fortnight. Hardly any when growing and growth spurting, but more when in an 'even keel' stage nad she didn't use every last drop of milk up. I'm nearly sure she went 2 days or so fairly regulary...

....4 years ago now though so memory dusty. Second advice from the very very trained professionals

NCT breastfeeding line, LaLeche, are all super trained and very experienced. Bloody marvellous!!

x post sorry abbymeg - LOADS of breastfeeding cafes in Leeds. The NCT lines and La Leche are charity based I believe so no charge.

10 min feed - so be ready for him to be back!! Unless you have boobs full [very possible from the demanding he has been doing] that is unlikely to get him more than hour or hour and half of sleep......Think back to all you found out about fore milk and hind milk and getting the fattier stuff the longer they feed. Thats good for confidence and supply too

Your doing great!!

Hi abbymeg, I remember feeling really confused at about 3 weeks about conflicting advice (for me it was re: colic). I think that is the time when it hits you that no one really knows, because every baby is different. I also remember a massive cluster feeding frenzy at 3 weeks. Hang in there, it gets so much easier!! My dd is now 1yr and I'm still feeding her.

I had a breast feeding consultant who came to my house and stayed with us for ages. She watched me nurse in every position and helped with the latch, signs of swallowing, etc. She also showed me how to do breast compressions. Has anyone mentioned these? www.kellymom.com/newman/15breast_compression.html Apparently it helps with supply and poor weight gain, as well as with colic. Depending where you live, your council may have a breastfeeding support service. In my area of London they do.

One more thing, this may of may not be relevant, but growth charts/stats can be misleading. I'm not British, and my dd takes after me. She was a low percentile on the charts here, but if I looked at a Canadian chart (my mother is in Canada), she is closer to average, so there was no cause for concern.

I'm wishing you tons of luck and congratulations on everything you have accomplished so far!!!!

www.thebabycafe.co.uk/L/BC_Postcode.php

Link to breastfeeding cafes in Leeds - but always ring and check as these things can be....er...fluid....[not on when you turn up]

Don't worry about the poo - I was frantic about DS not, um, producing, for 5 days. Called NHS Direct and, of course, he did the most audible trouser cough...

The nurse at NHS Direct said not to worry - b/f babies can go up to 7 days or so without having a poo.

alma - your council has a breastfeeding service

As long as there are plenty of wet nappies, don;t worry about the poo just yet. It definitely sounds like he's on a growing spurt and your milk supply will adjust faster if you don't give him formula/dummy to distract him. Try to avoid them for a few days - the dummy will disguise his feeding cues. I would resign yourself to a few days on the couch with some goodies for you, a book, dvds and trashy tv - it's not a terrible thing! You are doing a great job and it's good that you are asking for help. I would also recommend La Leche League - support is free and you may be able to get along to a meeting near you for face to face advice and lots of support from other mummies who may have been through the same thing as you. Beware of any Doctor/health visitor that recommends adding formula/giving up breastfeeding and immediately speak to a bfc for EXPERT advice. Good luck and keep us posted! xo

Hi i go to a bf cafe at my local surestart center, found link for your local surestart centers in leeds www.surestart.gov.uk/surestartservices/settings/fundedsettings/index.cfm?region=YH&auth=59.

we always have a hv and lots of mums willing to look and give you advice! I'm in bradford by the way.

Good luck

Hi ilovemydog - it's an impressive service too, I was pleasantly surprised. But don't be too jealous, we're still one of the poorest boroughs in all of the UK, so there isn't much else on offer .

Ilovemydog - how old was your child at the time? The reason I ask is that I know that older b/f babies (6+ weeks) sometimes go over a week without pooing but I hadn't heard of this applying to younger ones before.

He will cluster feed to get your supply up - you just have to go with it (good luck - it will pass!!)

Also my DS used to feed for 45mins to and hour per feed so you may have to at some point leave a bit of a gap between feeds then let him really guzzle for a long time...

Here's the low down on poo: frequent poo (several times a day) is normal and desirable in babies up to about 5-6 weeks old when many start to poo much less often. In a young baby, its sometimes a sign the feeding needs to be fixed and no poo in the first 2 weeks is a definite sign to look more closely at what's happening...and if there is no/slow weight gain, infreq feeding, sleepy baby or miserable baby, then it's time to take things seriously

abbymeg - sounds to me as if things are turning the corner, but it would be important not to give formula. The baby is doing his best to boost your milk supply - don't undermine his efforts, bless him

You have had some pretty rubbish advice and it's not your things have taken off only slowly - formula on day 1 is almost never needed, but that didn't stop the profs from telling you to top up at every feed, so it's amazing you are still bf

My pregant brain is misfiring so have rooted out the UNICEF bf management course workbook and it says, paraphrased 'stool passing is variable, under a month can be several a day, older babies go several days between. Poo can be semi liquid and yellow, with pips and also look like piccalilly Hard small dry suggests the feeding needs looking at, frothy green suggests same.'

Perhaps baby abbeymeg is in between stages and growth spurting his way to new maturity, and so is also looking to up the quantities.

Tiktok is generally accepted as a guru I believe so more top advice, especially about not giving formula and letting him up your supply.
And it will work - your body will respond for sure. Drink loads and relax on the couch in regal breastfeeding goddess style.
Bear with it and def get yourself along to a cafe. I've heard good things about them from a friend, who I have to say, had one of the trickiest postnatal times I've heard of and ran on 2-3 hours sleep max, in 20 min chunks. Urgh!

hi there, ive had problems in the past and phoned the NATIONAL BREASTFEEDING HELPLINE where you can speak to a qualified councellor and ive had great advice. their number is 0844 20 909 20.

i really think its worth you giving them a phone. good luck.

abbymeg, more words of encouragement from me - it sounds like you're doing brilliantly and I echo all the good advice already given here If it makes you feel any better, I vaguely remember thrusting my approximately 3 week old DS at DP and wailing "I just can't feed him anymore!" Very melodramatic. He is now 18 weeks and fat as butter

More support here. DS was 5 weeks old before he came back to birthweight having lost 10% so I really feel for you and all the anxiety you're experiencing. He is still exclusively BF at 5.5 months.

You've been given rubbish advice though so really well done for persevering. :D

feeding again - apologies for typing and quick reply; I wanted you all to know I've read your posts and to say a big thank you for all of the help and reassurance.

I've got both mw and hv tomorrow so I'm guessing he will be weighed by one of them. He is feeling lighter, but that might be my mind playing tricks on me! I will see what happens and listen to their advice if he has dropped in weight again, and then I think I will try and get a bf councillor to visit and deal with it properly once and for all.

Abbeymeg - ring NCT bf councellors - I'm in Leeds, had v. good bf advice from one of the councellors - no cost.