Thrush? Confused!

[Helms]

Hi

My baby is 5 weeks old and breast fed. For the last few days my nipples have been much sorer than before. They are bright pink (weren't such a vivid colour before!), itchy and I have a burning sensation during and after feeding. Sometimes this is accompanied by shooting/ throbbing pains. Horrible when clothes etc rub against me.

I have had my ds latch checked several times since he was born and been told it is good. I have just finished a course of anti-bios which made me wonder whether my recent problems could be thrush. Can't see any white spots in my ds mouth but he does have a bit of nappy rash which has just started.

Nurse at GPs surgery says sounds like fungal infection but no need to see GP as they can't perscribe for it and it will just clear up.Rang breast feeding support group and they said thrush would cause deep breast pain (not sure that the pain I have can be described as this) but if it was thrush it could be treated.

Am now confused (and fed up of being sore!). Has anyone any experience/ advice? Many thanks. Oh and Happy New Year!

Hello Helms

I have a 5 wk old baby too and exactly the same pains and discolouration. DD has nothing in her mouth either but got nappy rash all of a sudden. I had mastitis and was on antibiotics for that and got thrush before I'd even finished the course. I got given 1% clotrimidazole to put on her nappy rash and my nipples last week but that did nothing and it's just got worse so I'm going back to the doctor's (in 10 mins) and I'll let you know what they say. I'm soooo fed up of stabbing pains every time I feed her and then aching/burning for the next hour, I just hope they have something else to offer!! On the plus side, the canesten cleared up her nappy rash on the day we started it...so she's happy!!

Hi,
My ds had oral thrush and passed it to my nips when i was BF. It was exactly like what you're describing, esp the colour!!
Sounds a bit weird that they say they can't prescribe anything for it. Your baby is over a month old and my ds had it from about 3 weeks.
I was prescribed Timodine cream for my nips and Nystan drops for baby which seemed to work.
Maybe you could go back to GP and see what they can do.
Hope this helps and clears up soon.
Happy New Year.

Helms, the information you have been given by the nurse is not correct. You are quite right to suspect antibiotics as the culprit and I would suggest that you book an appointment with the GP asap.

It is worth reading/downloading a copy of this leaflet and taking it with you to the appointment as it is not unusual for healthcare professionals to be ignorant about the best practice treatment of thrush.

Definitely agree with Lizzytee - I've seen 4 doctors about this and only 2 believed breast thrush actually existed!! I've been given Daktarin now for me and Nystatin drops for DD, I've also got a prescription for Fluconazole in case the other stuff doesn't work. Hopefully one of these will work - don't let the GP fob you off though - apparently it shouldn't hurt to breastfeed...

Echo what lizzytree & pbo say. You may have to battle a bit to get it treated but I found it wasnt till I also took the fluconzale that is helped.
You could also try taking some acidopholloius supplements as this will correct the bacteria in your gut & help fight the fungal infection. You need to make sure that you dont get supplements with sugar in them as this feeds the thrush & keep taking them for 2 weeks after the thrush has cleared.
Please ask you GP for an urgent appointment as breastfeeeding shouldnt hurt like it is at the moment.

Thank you for all the great advice. I saw an out of hours doctor today and she confirmed it was thrush.( My poor ds now has white spots in his mouth so am a bit annoyed that no one would see us yesterday). The doctor had been through the same thing with her baby and so was sympathetic. Have Daktarin for me and Nystatin drops for ds.

Feeding and the half an hour or so afterwards is now really painful. Did anyone have a way of managing the pain or is it a case of putting up with it until (hopefully) the medicines begin to work? Thanks again

pbo- hope that you and your little one feel better soon

Hi Helms and glad to hear that you saw a sensible doc. You can safely take paracetamol for pain relief, however can you clarify whether the pain is on your skin/nipples or in your breasts? If the former, it should clear in a few days, if the latter you may need further treatment.

Also, do change your bra every day and if you have to use pads change them very frequently - basically you want to avoid creating a warm, moist environment in which yeast can thrive.

You can also take ibuprofen when breastfeeding, personally found it reduced the pain more than paracetamol. Glad they gave you the right stuff, be religous about the daktarin cream after every feed and defo go back for flucanazole if it doesn't clear up or gets worse (deep breast pain).

Thanks, Anchovies and lizzytee, for the advice. I appreciate the support. Am determined to carry on bf but so far has been a pretty painful/ worrying experience for me.

My fear is that I have had thrush for quite a while and that it has had chance to take hold. I thought that the soreness was due to doing something wrong- the breast feeding support person at the hospital suggested it could be down to ds 'slipping' when feeding.The shooting pains after the feeds have definitely got worse. I have an idea I will need the tablets to clear it and just want to get on with it. I spoke to the health visitor today- she will see me in clinic at the beginning of next week and if necessary get my doctor to see me.

Anchovies, I am interested that you used the Daktarin after each feed. I have been told to use it only twice a day which doesn't seem that often.

Thanks again

I was told to use Daktarin after every feed, so far I've found the cream makes them hurt worse but I'm assuming that's cos it's killing off the baddies... I've also had thrush for ages, I got it in the first week after I had cracked nipples but I couldn't tell the difference between that and thrush til the cracks healed. I thought it was dd slipping too... My pain is deffo deep in the breast, especially on the left side, I've found that heat from a wheat bag makes it a little less painful. I've found bf painful/worrying too but I really want to carry on, I'd love for it not to hurt!! Just glad I'm not alone
Good luck helms!!

Another question if you don't mind- the doctor prescribed Daktarin oral gel rather than cream to put on my nipples. Her reasoning was it is better for baby if any is ingested. However having read the Breastfeeding Support Network leaflet, it seems that the oral gel might not be effective whereas the cream is. Just wondering what everyone else had been prescribed- cream or gel? Feeding was agony last night. Hate making a fuss but may try and speak to dr again today.

pbo- am sorry that you are suffering with horrible thrush as well. You have done really well to carry on if you have had it since the first week. Hope that we both get to the point where bf doesn't hurt- this is no fun, is it? Let me know how you get on.

Make a fuss, every doctor has a different idea on how to treat this but they don't seem to understand how toe-curlingly painful it is.
I'm finding it hard to give dd her stuff at regular intervals like it says - really don't want to set my alarm for 2am just to squirt cherry medicine into her!! We've missed a good 3 doses now... Doesn't help that dd's going through a crazy eating/crying phase so I can never work out whether to use the cream or whether she's going to wait 10 mins and want more - argh!

pbo- I know what you mean about judging when to give the medicine. It is also so hard when your baby wants to feed all the time and you are so sore. How are things this evening? How long have you been told to wait before you take the flucanazole? (hopefully you won't need it).

I went back to the out of hours surgery and made a fuss. Luckily it was a very understanding doctor again. He has prescribed flucanazole; not the 10 day or more course that the Breastfeeding network leaflet talks about but two tablets to be taken today and tomorrow. Am viewing this as a start; am sure I will be back at the GPs on Mon. Fortunately it still doesn't seem to be bothering my ds. If anything his mouth and nappy rash look much better. .Just want to get myself sorted out so don't re-infect him.

Helms, you are right, you should be putting cream not oral gel on your nips. You can buy Canesten over the counter as well as (I think) a version of Daktarin. Unfortunately it seems like you have encountered another HCP who doesn't really know what the correct treatment protocol is for thrush.

(BTW, when dd had a cracking case of thrush which one doc did not want to treat, I made another appointment, and took the BfN leaflet with me and gave it to the doc to read. She promptly coughed up a prescription for both of us.)

Do you have a contact for an NCT breastfeeding counsellor in your area? If so, call them and they may be able to provide you with a referral so you get the treatment you need.

I was told to give it 5 days with the cream so if things stay the same I'll try the fluconazole on monday. It doesn't seem to be much better today but then I haven't been very good with her nystatin.
At least you've got something stronger now!!

Hi just read the threads and i had thrush in early bf. i had the same problem and it was a bit of a nightmare but I got through it and i am really glad. You really need to get Oral Fluconazole, It is not licenced for prescribing to bf women but is safe according to La Leche league also use the antifungal cream on your nipples and gel in babies mouth. Find a friendly health visitor who believes in thrush in nipples and she will know the right doctor. Personally I found Daktarin stung a bit but Cannesten didn't. other women I have spoken too said the same. It took me three courses of fluconazole to kick the thrush and I expressed a lot of feeds to minimise the pain. In the end I also changed my bra every day, washing at 90 degrees to kill the infection. I took maximum stength garlic tablets and acidophillus bifidus three times a day. It sounds really full on to get rid of it and it did take about 5 weeks but I am so glad i did get rid of it rather than use formula . It is easier in the ling run.

Again, lots of good advice- thank you!

Have appointment with GP tomorrow so will print out BfN get leaflet and get ready to be assertive (not very good at that!). I do feel a bit better today but am aware that thrush can flare up as quickly as it goes.

Have been washing towels, bras, little baby grows with chewed sleeves at the highest heat that they can stand. Anyone heard of soaking/ rinsing clothes in white vinegar? Am just so determined to get rid of it.

Stripeysock- on average how many feeds a day did you express? NCT counsellor suggested I feed from "better" side and express from "bad" side (neither is great to be honest). That's what I have been doing. It takes a bit of getting used to. Feel like the pump is my constant friend! What sort of pump do others use? Have a manual one and it seems to take ages.

Thanks to everyone for their messages. It really helps to have some support.

pbo- how are you today?

I DID WHAT THE NCT COUNCELLOR SUGGESTED AND SOMETIMES PUMPED FROM BOTH COZ I COULDN'T STANG IT. WHATEVER GET YOU THROUGH REALLY. ALSO IT TOOK ME ALITTLE TIME TO GET THE HANG OF USING JUST ONE BREAST FOR EACH FEED WHICH GIVES EACH BOOB A LONGER RECOVERY BETWEEN FEEDS. ALSO REMEMBERED, AN AROMATHERAPIST FRIEND DILUTED ONE DROP OF T TREE AND ONE OF LAVENDER IN 100ML OF OLIVE OIL WHICH I CONSTANTLY RUBBED ON MY BOOBS. THE T TREE IS ANTI FUNGAL AND WILL GET TO THE MILK VIA THE BREAST AND THE LAVENDER WILL REDUCE INFLAMATION AND KILL A BIT OF PAIN.

I HAD AN AVENT HAND PUMP BUT GOT SO ANNOYED I BOUGHT A MELEDA ELECTRIC PUMP ON EBAY. OR YOU CAN HIRE ONE FROM HOSPITAL FOR ABOUT £30 per month it may be all you need.

try keep the baby on the boob as much as you can or else it might not take boob eventually .

Whit vinegar heard that one but cider vinegar said to be better.

Also steam sterilise rather than milton .

Good luck and find a good breast feed support club, those girls were my lifeline and somewhere to get you out of the house when you might feel a bit unconfident about feeding in public.

I DID WHAT THE NCT COUNCELLOR SUGGESTED AND SOMETIMES PUMPED FROM BOTH COZ I COULDN'T STANG IT. WHATEVER GET YOU THROUGH REALLY. ALSO IT TOOK ME ALITTLE TIME TO GET THE HANG OF USING JUST ONE BREAST FOR EACH FEED WHICH GIVES EACH BOOB A LONGER RECOVERY BETWEEN FEEDS. ALSO REMEMBERED, AN AROMATHERAPIST FRIEND DILUTED ONE DROP OF T TREE AND ONE OF LAVENDER IN 100ML OF OLIVE OIL WHICH I CONSTANTLY RUBBED ON MY BOOBS. THE T TREE IS ANTI FUNGAL AND WILL GET TO THE MILK VIA THE BREAST AND THE LAVENDER WILL REDUCE INFLAMATION AND KILL A BIT OF PAIN.

I HAD AN AVENT HAND PUMP BUT GOT SO ANNOYED I BOUGHT A MELEDA ELECTRIC PUMP ON EBAY. OR YOU CAN HIRE ONE FROM HOSPITAL FOR ABOUT £30 per month it may be all you need.

try keep the baby on the boob as much as you can or else it might not take boob eventually .

Whit vinegar heard that one but cider vinegar said to be better.

Also steam sterilise rather than milton .

Good luck and find a good breast feed support club, those girls were my lifeline and somewhere to get you out of the house when you might feel a bit unconfident about feeding in public.

Helms, just seen this and second other views about fluconazole.

In addition, I had have success with grapefruit seed extract. Obv it is an untested product but Jack Newman's website links to some good information on it and many people swear by it. You can buy it online and dilute it, swabbing on your nipples and in baby's mouth after each feed. I wouldn't feel so confident about tea tree oil and lavender myself as they have not been widely used AFAIK... You have to make your own mind up though about untested 'natural' remedies.

It cleared up BAD thrush in us in about 48 hours, after the Nystatin had not touched it.

You can also drink it diluted which helps systemically I think (though tastes disgusting: best to put in orange juice)

It is very important that you treat both of you simultaneously and continue until well after all symptoms are cleared. I am not so convinced by the 'must disinfect and boil everything': candida albicans is EVERYWHERE and hard not to be exposed to it IMHO.

I have had serious thrush with two of my three BF babies and it is awful, I sympathise. But please persevere with the treatment options and don't let this put pressure on your BF choices: you can recover from it very quickly once the right treatment is in place.

I had a rubbish night last night, I thought I was coming down with mastitis again in the same breast that i had it in last time...argh!! I think it is just the thrush hanging around. I bought some GSE online and I've been taking that 3 times a day, I think it is better than it was but I'm going to start the fluconazole tomorrow.

Helms - I had the Tommee Tippee pump but found that very painful I switched to the Medela Harmony manual pump and it works very well, it takes me about 10 mins to fill a bottle, one of my boobs just seems to be have hollow legs - it never seems to run out!!

actually the medela pump is what i meant not meleda. Sorry bit tired.
good luck, its tough but worth getting through