Breasfeed (with OALD and no sleep) a refluxy baby or try Enfamil AR etc?

[jellybeans]

Hi further to my other message has anyone got any advice about whether to carry on bf even though I am exhausted with NO sleep most nights (1-2 hrs if lucky) I have 4 older kids and feel unable to do much with them at the moment. DS (5 weeks) very irratable/windy/sick when bf so I feel responsible and sometimes dread feeding him He has gaviscon as we ended up in A&E due to his choking episodes which happen 2-3 hours after a feed and sometimes involve no visible sick. He also sicks out of his nose. Spoke to 2 friends who swore by Enfamil thickened formula. I keep imaging DS transforming into a happy baby and getting some sleep but also dread making him worse and loosing my milk! Not sure if to try a bottle of this at nighttime to try for some sleep. Can I use if he has taken gaviscon recently does anyone know. Anyone any experience or advice? Thankyou.

I had 2 reflux babies. Paediatrician advised me to put DS2 on a bottle and introduce solids very early.
I ignored this advice having already lived through the problem with DS1.
I managed the reflux with none stop feeding and loads of laundry.
BUT you have 4 other children!Maybe you should be pragmatic and try formula

jelly, I think (from what you said on the other thread) that block nursing is worth trying. You need to do it for longer blocks than the 2 hours you said you were doing - I have known some mothers need a block of 6 hours. You need to try it for 2 days before you can tell if it is going to help or not.

If you are not keen on using formula and want to continue bf, then it's worth considering it, IMO.

Happy to give more info if you need it.

Thankyou both. Tiktok, I am doing 3 hourly blocks today, do you think I should stretch to 4? I am just abit confused about doing more feeds on one side than the other (eg if he only feeds on one side once in 3 hours but twice on another) So far he has been on the same side twice before going back to the other for the next block. I would rather bf but don't want to end up with PND etc or affecting my other DC. This is the longest i have fed, gave up bf at 5-6 weeks with my older DC due to lack of sleep especially with my twins. Would love to do 6 months if possible, but if he is happier on formula I would switch. I hope this block feeding works, does it usually? Am I OK to carry on with the Gaviscon.

Yes, stretch it to 4 - should be fine. Gentle hand expression only on the unused side in between times - only if you need to do it, and only to go from rock hard to less than rock hard.

If the issue is over supply then yes, this method almost always helps at the very least, in my exp.

Gaviscon - dunno. Can't see that it would make any diff stopping it. If you think it helps, carry on (bearing in mind that some babies get constipated on it).

Good luck.

Ok, thankyou so much for advice. will do 4 hour blocks from now on. Will update when see if makes any better, fingers crossed!

Hi just a silly question but do i literally divide the day into 4 hr blocks or time 4 hrs from the last feed? What if i have only fed once in the 4 hrs, do i still move to next side? Thanks.

jelly, if you have fed only once in those four hours, move to the next side next time the baby feeds, correct.

It works like this: you are reducing the amount of stimulation your breastmilk production line receives, without reducing your baby's access to the breast. This reduces the amount of milk you are making (breastmilk production on each side is individual).

Do you have a local bf support group (ask your hv)?

Sometimes the sort of fussing you describe can be down to a baby who is struggling to control a fast flow. A baby who is in the best possible position and well attached to the breast can cope with even a really rapid flow by the way they use their tongue to massage the breast. Often a very minor change can make a big difference.

Babies who are not in quite the right position may also feed for longer and/or more frequently and it can play a role in them taking more of the high volume milk (used to be called 'foremilk') and less of the fattier, richer milk than would make the ideal balance.

If there's no group near you, then do give the national bf helpline a ring (0844 20 909 20), as someone will be able to talk to you about all aspects of your LO's feeding and make more specific suggestions.

I hope tonight is a bit better for you.

Thanks, yes there is group in next town but I haven't been yet as usually trying to catch up on sleep in the day.

Well, I am still awake (6.40am) as is DS, a total of ZERO sleep. I feel so ill. DS sleeps on my chest but wakes up if I move him. Also wakes if attempt to lie down and cosleep with him. He was sick, DH working tonight so had no help.

Tried 4 hourly feeds. DS got very angry on second session on right boob as if there was nothing there but when I squeezed some came out so think was his latch.

Goodness that sounds hard (((hugs))). You must be exhausted .

If you think it's the latch the there are some excellent videos on this site that may help you to visualise how to improve things:

www.drjacknewman.com/

I really would call one of the helplines too.

Thanks, I will ring one later. Am confused whether when my supply goes down i carry on blockfeeding or go back to normal?

I started this method yesterday evening. I'll keep you posted on my progress as well.

Thanks for the link Grendle, will have a look.

Lizum, good luck and let me know how it goes.

Hi jellybeans sorry that you are having such a hard time, and you Lizmum too. I am sticking to the 6 hour block feeding and had a better night, after a pretty awful evening- I do think that it is helping though and worth sticking with. I think DS latch isn't great either so I am sure that is part of it, and harder to get right when you're tired. From what I've read jellybeans you can stop the block feeding when the supply goes down but that can take days to weeks depending. I am going to stick at it a few more days at least and hope for the best. Hope that you manage to speak to someone at the helpline. I find the evenings the hardest, when DS is distressed and I've had a tiring day and know it is going to be a hard night. Really hope that this method works for us all!

I'm fairly sure now that DS's sick/regurgitation is linked to my supply. He was fine until I changed breast then he was sick all over the place! A change of clothes for me later and he feeds fine again for the rest of the 6 hours. I also think he's not properly latching on later on in the block as he can just lick the milk off my breasts at first!

I've had three reflux babies and was told by paediatrician not to give them formula as this can exacerbate it. Really, really sympathise, the sleep and irritability is tremendously exhausting. Does your baby sound hoarse from constantly having throat burnt by acid? We found that Ranitidene (sp?) made it much easier for dd1 to feed - you will need to have it prescribed unlike Gaviscon.

Thanks, hope everyone else is getting on OK. I had a BAD night, NO sleep at all, DS very irritable, unconsolable at several points. Hate feeding time as know it will make him suffer Yes he sometimes sounds hoarse and gags and he can't cry briefly as there is so much fluid coming up and down. Have been feeding 4 hourly blocks, mostly 2 feeds each side in that time. He is less windy/comstipated since being off the Gaviscon but I hope he is not more sick now, even though it didn't seem to do anything. Have a hospital appointment tomorrow to review so hopefully will get something that works. Just to get through tonight.

I never normally do this but

((hugs))

It will get better. If there is any possibility of getting some help with your baby (or your other children), don't be proud about asking.

Thankyou My mum has helped abit today and will ask for more help.

Good luck with the hospital appointment Jellybeans. I've gone to 4 hourly blocks, doing 6 hours the breast got too full and the first feed from it caused problems with very fast flow choking and wind. DS does seem better but is still feeding every 2 hours overnight and waking in between with wind. I don't know how long I can keep it up, just need a 4 hour stretch of sleep! Feel I've aged 10 years in 5 weeks. Glad to hear that you are getting some help JB. How is it going for you Lizum?

I'm managing 6 hours overnight as DS feeds every 3 hours but only 5 hours during the day when he feeds what feels like continuously as my nipples start hurting. It's definitely cutting down on the sickness but I'm still leaking everywhere and going through pads like nobody's business. DH is being a star and takes him for a couple of hours in the evening and morning when he's not settling so that I can get some sleep.

Great that DH can help Lizum. Know what you mean about the pads and I can't find any good ones, I am sure they made better ones when I BF DD but then again I didn't have the oversupply last time. How are you Jellybeans? Hope your hospital appointment went well. I'm having a couple of hours rest as DS has settled well after his last feed, hoping for a better night (for us all).

Hope you two are doing OK today, I also feel I have aged 10 years! Had NO sleep again last night but at hospital they diagnosed GORD (reflux) and gave us two meds. DS is in agony after every feed and looks like he is burping up acid and he chokes on regurgutated sick alot. Hope it helps, am still going to carry on the blockfeeding for the oversupply (feel less full but still have a very very fast flow and squirt too fast for ages, could never BF in public unless sprayed bypassers!!) to see if that helps, also am cutting out cows milk from my diet for a few weeks. Anything to help DS be a happy baby and also to get us some sleep. Good luck for tonight ladies, hope we get some sleep!

I cut out dairy from my diet with all three babies - don't know if it helped any but it did make me feel as if I were taking control which was a boost. Good luck with it all.

At least you have a diagnosis now Jellybeans, hope the meds help and that you get some sleep soon! Things are better here, I don't think DS has reflux just the problem with OALD and block feeding is helping, although he is still feeding very often at night. It must be really tough for you coping with the reflux too, hope that you can hang on in there and have some rest over Christmas,