BF problems and sad mummy of 8 day old DD (long post, sorry!)

[pookamoo]

My DD is 8 days old and we have been fighting for BF so hard. I have been so close to giving up, and despite all the support from family, friends, my lovely midwife and the local maternity unit, I was at my wits end today and ready to give up. We have been through bleeding, sores, bruises, blisters and floods of tears.
After she was born, slightly different to the birth we had planned, but safe and well is all that matters, we stayed overnight in the big hospital before moving to the local midwife led unit for five days, where we had so much care and support.
However, DH is due to go back to work on Monday so we came home. I was pumping EBM, and the hospital lent me a pump. Since then, I have been either pumping or crying. She won't calm for me at all, she won't settle with me, only DH, and it got to the point today that I realised I was only touching her when I changed her nappy or attempted a flinching, tense feed on the breast; not a positive thing for either of us. I felt our relationship was breaking down completely.
I was ready to give up, having stayed determined through it all, I felt I would be letting her down, myself down, DH down, all the midwives and carers who have helped so much would be let down, and my daughter and I would not have any sort of relationship. I realise that's probably over the top, but I am stacked with hormones!

So. DH got out a nipple shield, and this evening we had a feed for a whole hour. She fed from both breasts, and now she's happy in her bed (although not asleep). I am hoping I might be able to cuddle her, without getting her so frustrated, too.

So I'm feeling not quite so sad, but hoping that someone can reassure me that I have done the right thing with the nipple shields, and that I will be able to mend my relationship with DD.

My best friend in RL had similar problems, and she's been so reassuring. She even managed to get her DS off the nipple shield and back to the breast. I hope there are more positive stories out there?

Thanks for reading this essay of a post!

Oh honey. Don't know what to say but couldn't just read and not post. I'm sure someone will be along who can help.
(((HUGS!!)))

congratulations on your new dd, you are doing great and if nipple shields work for you then use them, as you say you may be able to stop them after a while. tbh it took me 6 weeks for milk to settle and dd to settle and me i think, then it all clicked into place.

Congratulations on getting this far, it's not easy {{hugs}}

How fantastic that you managed to feed for a whole hour - what an achievement. Don't belittle it at all

Is it possible for you just to lie down with her for a while on your own. Not to change a nappy, or feed, but just to gaze at the beautiful new creature you have helped create. Stroke her head. Hold her hand.

(sorry if it sounds cheesy, but someone said similar stuff to me when dd was tiny and it helped me)

Hopefully someone will come along who can give you more advice.

take care of yourself, your dh and of course your brand new dd

You have SO much sympathy and you're doing a great job. I'm not a bf expert so will leave that to the MNers who are, but just to say when I brought DS home from hospital (we were readmitted when he got very badly jaundiced at 3 days old), he was AWFUL. I called the mw in floods of tears at 4am and said what's wrong, he hates me, picking him up just seems to make him worse etc.

She said that tiny babies are very sensitive to a change of environment, so bringing them home from hospital, partic. when you've been in for a while, means they get really upset and scream and scream.

I don't know if that helps. I hope it does - it WILL get better, you ARE a good mother, and you will have a GREAT relationship with your DD. Just give yourself some time and try not to put yourself under pressure. Good luck xx

I had a similar start to you and went on to feed my son for a long time. I wouldn't worry about the nipple sheilds atm, if they are working then go for it.

Honestly, your relationship with your dd does not need mending, you are the person she needs and wants. I was so scared of feeding ds that the midwife once pried my rigid fingers aways from his neck in case I hurt him, as I had gone so tense from the anticipated pain. I got phobic about feeding and would cry when dh brought him near me. It has not affected our relationship, it was just a bad start to feeding, that got better. As will yours - hasn't it started to already?

Keep posting

Don't know about nipple shields (except that a friend used them for a while on the advice of a lactation consultant midwife who really knows her stuff).

Honestly honestly honestly your relationship with your DD has not "broken down". She and you are very tense but it is only eight days. You will be fine, however it all turns out; you're doing your very best for her persevering so much.

At the moment, BF is so much of the time in your relationship, but as she gets older the amount of time she's on the breast will reduce (though not necessarily for a while) but more importantly, you will have lived with her for longer, found your feet and recovered from the birth and this issue won't loom so large in your mind because you'll have done other things too, like shown her the clock in the kitchen she likes to look at, taken her on walks, sung to her, read her her first book.

Oh of course you will be able to mend your relationship with DD It is early days yet for any kind of relationship. Lots of people don't bond with their DC instantly, or are separated from them for much longer than 8 days because of illness of either mum or baby.

You are her mother and the only reason she seems unsettled when you cuddle her is that you are suffering anxiety and hormones. Honestly, babies are unsettled. They respond best to confident handling - something hardly any of us manage at first. I used to feel my DS was better with other people but looking back, he wasn't - it's just I was so nervous and self doubting that I took every squeak as a sign he did't like me.

I honestly think that what would help your relationship and confidence with your DD the most - and BF too - is to go to bed and have your DD with you for skin to skin for as long as you can, a couple of days ideally. Get to know each other properly and have as many goes at BF as you both want. I know it is hard when you have to pump to maintain a supply - because I had to do that too - but it can be done and the less pumping and more BF direct you do the better for everyone. Nipple shields are great if your DD is getting the milk...are they full of milk when she comes off?...but they do come with the risk of diminishing your supply and causing/continuing nipple confusion.

Have you spoken to a BF counsellor? There are several helplines you could get your DH to ring for you until someone answers and then pass you over...you could probably benefit from talking all of this over with someone in RL.

Congratulations on your DD

I'm sure you know this but have you got some lansinoh oil for cracked nipples? get it from the chemist its miraculous, much more than any other nipple cream

congratulations. You are doing just great and nothing needs saving.

These early days are just so tough, I dont know anyone who didnt find it so.

This is a great place for advice on breastfeeding. In a year's time you will look back and not believe how much you have changed.

Firstly I want to say that i have sed nipple shields with bot my dc. With my dd I never stopped -way too scared it would hurt too much - but this time with ds I've managed it. I think used them for about 5 days, managed 2-3 days without, put them back on for a few days then took them off and expected to have to put them on again but we haven't looked back. (mind you they live permanently in the steriliser - i'm too chicken to take them out ).

With my dd (who is now 5.5) I thought i'd wrecked the bond. feeding fecking hurt (ended up mixed feeding with aforementioned nipple shields) and for the first few weeks only really held her to fed her - dh did all the napy changes and most of the comforting (of us both ). Now however we have a fab relationship. Yes we argue but i've never once thought that was anythimg to do with when she was a baby , just mums and daughters....

Lots of luck and psotive thinking coming your way.

And do try one of the bf helplines - i had a fabulous bfc, without whom I would NEVER have carried on with ds this time.

Oh Pookamoo, you poor thing. Breastfeeding problems can have such a terrible impact on the first days and weeks of a new baby. Your description of feeding your DD rings so many bells with me.

I think you have done absolutely the right thing to try a nipple shield. I have said on here many times that nipple shields pretty much saved my breastfeeding. Yes there are problems with nipple shields - reduction of milk supply, nipple confusion, etc. But when there is such a massive psychological barrier associated with breastfeeding, that nipple shield feels like the best friend you've got.

I would advise you to use the shield for as long as you feel you need to. This will help you to mentally prepare yourself for feeding directly again. After a while you may find, as I did, that the shield becomes more of a hinderance than a help. So then you can start trying without the shield for part of the feed. Then perhaps you will be ready to try and latch your baby on for the first time again without the shield. When I did this it was one of the most amazing moments of my new motherhood.

I wish I could say it was all plain sailing from there, but unfortunately in our case an undiagnosed tongue tie, plus thrush, intervened. So I never did manage exclusive breastfeeding, but we did mix feed for 4.5 months, which is about 4 months more breastfeeding than DS would have had without the lifeline of the nipple shield.

Hope this helps and hang in there!

Thank you all for your kind and helpful advice.
I know this is going to take time, and I am prepared to spend whatever time it takes.
constance that is exactly how I feel. I am so tense when she is near because I am anticipating the pain.

provinciallady should they be full of milk?
I was a bit worried that I couldn't tell if she'd even been getting any at all. I thought an hour was a long time, and as she's so sucky, it could be that she was just sucking for comfort. I have so much milk at the moment that even when I've been pumping, my breasts still feel full - so I couldn't really tell by that. DH says he thinks she might be hungry again, so maybe she isn't getting the milk?

My lovely midwife is coming on Monday, and I have spoken to a BF counsellor who was very helpful. I will be going along to the local breastfeeding support group later in the week.

I hope we can get past this.

My best friend had massive problem esstablishing BF when her daughter was born and also resorted to nipples shields. Many lactation consultants and BF counsellor will tell you that they are A Bad Thing but she is still feeding her 9 month old daughter and almost certainly wouldn't have got to 9 days let alone 9 months without them.

Despite the "help" of midwives, HV and a private lactation consultant she had odema in her breasts caused by the epidural and undiagnosed thrush which is terribly common.

For that reason I would strongly recommend that you contact La Leche League or NCT and just persevere with trying to get to the root of the problem which should enable you to use the nipple shields for as short a time as possible.

Good luck and I hope you are feeling better soon. Even when thing sgo smoothly Motherhood is such a shock and when things are so hard it's very upsetting. But it will get better.

First of all, HUGE congratulations for carrying on bfing for so long - lots of people give up when they start feeling like this, & it's a huge testiment to you that you're still trying to bf.

I hated bf-ing dd for the first couple of weeks, everything hurt, it was miserable. (she was my second - I found ds much easier) This evening she held my head in her hands and kissed me and said 'Mummy, you are my best friend" (She's 2.5)

A few thoughts from me:

• agree with the idea of spending some time just looking at her & being with her. If you feel she won't settle for you, then do this when she's asleep, or in someone else's arms. Just be in the moment, don't think about what has been, or about the future, just enjoy her. Then take it slowly, have her for a few minutes when she's settled. Assume she'll be ok. Give her back to your dh before she gets grumpy. Feel pleased with yourself.
• it's early days. Don't give yourself any guilt trips about this being the end of your relationship. She won't remember it. Think about it, you have the rest of your life to be friends with this person. 8 days will not define your relationship
• I'm no expert, but if nipple shields are working for you, then embrace them & go with them. As I understand it, lots of people 'wean' off them, once things are settled.
• for me, and for lots of my mates, the few days before their dh's went back to work were F**king terrifying. It suddenly hit me - the weight of responsibility, the alone-ness of it all. You wait, after 2 weeks you'll feel like a complete pro (well, maybe two months )

Just wanted to post to send you all my sympathy and best wishes.

I had a really hard start to life with dd2 - problems bf but for completely different reasons. I went through all the anxieties about bonding that you're talking about. Thought that I'd failed, and that she'd never love me.

Honestly, it gets better SO quickly. Don't beat yourself up about the feeding - just keep going for it. Use the shields now if that's the way to keep going and tackle getting your baby off them in a few days when you feel a bit more stable. Just take it one feed at a time for now.

Six months down the line with dd, we couldn't be closer. The first few days, or even weeks, mean so little in the grand scheme of things. You're obviously an incredibly caring mum, and your daughter will benefit from that forever.

Have your tried massaging her? You can do this with really little babies. It could relax you both, I did it from a book. It is a lovely thing to do together.

Keep asking for help with the pain aspect. I got the latch right with some brilliant help from a bf counsellor. It is worth using paracetemol to help with the pain too.

Are you getting out of the house at all at the moment? It is really helpful if you can manage some outside exercise.

how to massage your baby

also echo the advice about skin to skin - just go to bed with your baby, I wish I had done this with ds.

Congratulations on your lovely DD, and on posting - shows how comitted you must be to carrying on BF'ing. I found it really scary when DH went back to work, but also (eventually) really empowering - because I realised I could actually manage to be 'in charge' of DS! I would second all of the advice on here about BF support etc, but would also just say - don't worry about routine, don't worry about sucking for sucking's sake, don't worry about not bonding - just do what you need to do to get through. I wish so much that I had just retreated to my bed with DS and had a 'babymoon' - 2 or 3 weeks where you just sod everything else and concentrate on getting to know this amazing new person - just stay in bed or on the sofa with snack and drinks within reach, phone off the hook and baby close all the time. I was so desperate to convince everyone - and myself - that nothing had changed, that I was off into town for lunch, on the buses, down the supermarket...... I used to feel almost bereft of my old, baby-free life and went through the classic various stages of grief (denial, bargaining, anger, acceptance etc.) Sorry - getting away from the point, but it's all tied in with my memories of BF'ing and those first early, overwhelming days.

Your DD sounds very lucky to have you. And even 8 days of BF'ing is a hell of a lot better than none. And - very jealous! - 'happy in her bed but not asleep'is a very positive thing at 8 days old - takes 8 years for some to reach that stage!

Just wanted to say I think you're doing great. It is a really difficult time but it does get easier, I had problems with latch, dd kept closing her mouth before I could get enough nipple in. By the time she was 6 weeks it was much easier and we are still going at 13m.
Take one day at a time.

Even after an hour's solid feeding babies will often be ready for some more! So it doesn't mesn your DD wasn't getting any milk.

kellymom has a page about the best way to use nipple shields, problems to look out for and ways to wean off the shields, so you might want to have a look. It is a well respected site full of information so you could also look at the bits about sore nipples, positioning etc if you like. I have been told that the shields should be full of milk when the baby comes off, but you would be better off listening to kellymom rather than me

You are doing really well, I am glad you have got some support organised

I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet, but the most important thing you can do is SKIN-TO-SKIN. Strip her down to just her nappy, either put her down you top or strip off yourself anf cover with a blanket. If you do this for a little while before a feed, say half hou/hour, whatever you fancy, when she needs a feed she should start routing, gently encourage her in the right direction and try to latch her on.

Don't wait until she's crying for a feed, try to pick up on the feeding cues before she gets that desperate ie. head butting, licking lips, sucking hand (though mine used to do this all the time!). You will find she will feed much more easily ifr she doesn't get workaed up.

Plus also, make sure you're not forcing her head when you latch her on. Support her behind the shoulders and let her head drop back a little. Lots of babies hate it if you push their head onto the breast

Hope this helps, get some advice from a drop-in or breastfeeding counsellor

Pookamoo,

You are doing a wonder job, you are giving your lil'one liquid gold. I would stongly recommend getting yourself a pair of Silverette They would have you completely soothed immediately, and completely healed within a couple of days. Have a look on the post Sydney made cracked nipples wont heal..

contact LLLGB or BFN for some additional support. You are doing a great job. hang in there

Congratulations on your new baby. I did take paracetamol whilst breastfeeding to begin with because the pain was terrible. If you squeeze some milk out of your breasts and cover the nipple area with breastmilk this is good for the nipple also. Once your nipples are used to the feeding and you get the positioning right you will be fine. It is so difficult but the only advice I can give you is to remember that your baby's tummy is the size of a walnut and the amount of milk needed to fill your baby is small so don't be expecting to see lots of milk at this early stage. You must also realise that you will be breastfeeding your baby every hour (on demand/baby led) in most cases for a couple of weeks and you will be extremely tired (won't be sleeping much just feeding all the time) as breastmilk is quickly digested but once you are in established breastfeeding you will be fine. Your baby will be feeding constantly until 6 weeks old when they will be more interested in the environment around them and not just interested in milk all the time. I hope this helps. Good luck. Stay with it if you can, it will be worth it in the end!