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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Original poster

Poor latch - practical help needed NOW!

29 replies

Verso · 03/12/2008 20:00

I BF my DD1 (now 3.5) for a year, so I know a bit about breastfeeding and good latch etc - so it's come as a huge shock that DD2 (8 days old) doesn't reliably open her mouth wide enough to latch on properly. I am in excruciating pain from the damage she's done to both my nipples and it's really starting to get me down.

I went to the local breastfeeding clinic on Monday and they helped a bit - checked DD2 for tongue tie for one thing and gave her the all-clear. But she still latches badly about 50% of the time and it really hurts - especially where she pulled the skin off the scabs from earlier in the week (sorry if TMI ). There is another clinic tomorrow, so I'm planning to go there - but can anyone else suggest places where I can get support? Or give me tips on how to heal faster?

I've been using lansinoh but it's not doing much.

I phoned the breastfeeding network and they were really nice/friendly/kind but not very helpful. I've also left a message for a local counsellor but have no idea when she'll be able to get back to me.

Can anyone even offer just some sympathy and perspective? I'm not looking forward to the night feeds tonight .

OP posts:
TheBlonde · 03/12/2008 20:07

wound healing link
don't let them dry out

if it hurts, take her off and relatch
I know it's easier to think she's on let's get it over but do try to relatch

also take painkillers

Where are you?

reikizen · 03/12/2008 20:07

Hoping someone with years of experience will come along but in the meantime I'm sure you've tried different holds, rugby ball and all that. Are your breasts engorged? Could you express some off? Don't really know what to say except good luck!

Leda · 03/12/2008 20:09

Oh poor you. I had the same thing with dd2 (also after feeding first for more than a year), but I can't remember when and why it improved. I think she just grew and got better at it. Sorry to be so unhelpful.

thisisyesterday · 03/12/2008 20:09

did your breastfeeding clinic have a real breastfeeding counsellor there?
i only ask as we have a local bf cafe and it doersn;t, only peer supporters. who are great, but not like a proper bf counsellor.

i found when having probs with ds1, that although i got loads of really supportive advice frm ppl online, and by phone, the only thing that really helped was someone seeing me, with my baby and helping me get it right

daisydora · 03/12/2008 20:11

Ahh verso, I was just trawling through this topic for a bit of advice myself. DS has made a mess of one of my nipples, the others not too bad but I dread when he has to feed of my sore boob. The thing is he looks likes he's on okay but obv not..

Am also using Lansinoh but doesn't seem as effective as when I had DD.

Can't really offer any advice, just my sympathy, I hope it gets better and soon

Original poster
Verso · 03/12/2008 20:15

Yes, thisisyesterday, she was a proper NHS-registered breastfeeding counsellor (took notes to send to my community midwife). It was an NHS-run clinic I attended, not just a cafe. She was helpful but we managed to get DD2 on by luck rather than design as she yawned at an opportune moment!

I just need a way of consistently getting her to open her mouth properly, and also a way of managing the pain and getting it to heal up.

daisydora sorry you're going through the same thing. The soreness is unbelievable, isn't it? I find myself reduced to tears because I so want the feeding to work properly and feel like such a failure - not to mention dreading the pain .

OP posts:
TheBlonde · 03/12/2008 20:17

you are not a failure
your DD is still learning how to feed

people have said v positive things about silverette but not tried them myself

fishie · 03/12/2008 20:21

verso i met someone employed by nhs who was called a breastfeeding counsellor. she was nothing of the sort. the charities are the ones which train volunteers to be bfc, alas not the nhs. keep going with the local vols.

anyway, to practical stuff. i had very similar problems. not allowing scabs to form is very important as them being pulled off is the most painful bit. silverette is meant to be fab but not tried it myself. try rugby hold, it helped me a bit. the main problem was that ds didn't open his mouth wide enough, but as he grew it all improved because of course his gape was bigger. i think you should also try bathing together and going to bed naked, let your dd try a breastcrawl.

i'll go and get links for those two things...

fishie · 03/12/2008 20:24

silverette crikey they're pricey. i got gel dressings on prescription.

breastcrawl

ChirpyGrinch · 03/12/2008 20:26

Oh much sympathy from here, I had nightmares with DD1, would try and kid myself she wasn't hungry to try and put it off.
I found Jelonet (not sure of spelling) that the hospital has was a lifesaver, but you need to get it through a MW or similar as far as I know. It's like little bits or mesh material soaked in gel, so you sort of stick it on and it doesn't rub off. Fuond Lansinoh soaked onto cotton squares had similar effect, also stopped the 'catching on clothes' thing when you can't go naked.

Have you tried differnet latches? Lying down sideways was what workwed for us, then we moved to rugby ball adn then properly, (she would only open properly on her side at first)

Also have you tried tickling the side of her motuh, just on the corner of her lips, if you hold your nipple there they sometimes open wider and turn their heads round which might help.

Youa re doing great, hopefully soemone with better advice will be along soon.

FloriaTosca · 03/12/2008 20:32

Verso;deep sympathy..I had 5 or 6 wks of toe-curling eye-watering last year with ds. My Bfing councellor made me change positions at each feed to minimise damage,use lashings of lansinoh and tickle dss lip with my nipple to make him open up more..He just seemed to preferr nipple feeding rather than getting a good mouthful of aureola. I kept setting myself targets"get through the night and we'll give up tomorrow","get through this week.." "once we have done 6 weeks..","12 weeks.." etc but in the long run it was time and growth that was the cure....and I'm still bfing now at 14 months

LeakyDAISYcal · 03/12/2008 20:37

Make sure she doesn't have oral thrush. I'm into my fifth week and DS and I have been merrily passing thrush between us since he was born. It's only now that it has started to clear up in both of us that feeding is going well. He wasn't latching well at all due to his sore mouth and was tending to munch on my nipples causing more trauma to them.

When I had similar issues with DD, my HV told me to put my pinky finger in her mouth, pad side down, and then "walk" my finger out of her mouth to encourage her to stick her tongue out to enable her to get a good mouthful of breast. It seemed to do the trick.

Also, if it is still sore after the initial latching on, take her off and reposition her as often as you need to for her to get it right as you'll just get more and more sore. Once we got things sorted, I was amazed at how quickly my nipples healed.

Original poster
Verso · 03/12/2008 21:04

How can I tell if she has oral thrush? There's no white 'curd' in her mouth/on her tongue or anything. Have to say thrush did occur to me as a cause though as I have deep breast pain as well as the nipple pain.

OP posts:
Original poster
Verso · 03/12/2008 21:05

Thanks for the silverette link, btw - I ordered some yesterday after a search on Mumsnet for nipple pain cures. I hope they work!! Wish me luck for the night ahead... off to bed as DD2 is currently asleep so I might get a few minutes before she wants feeding.

OP posts:
TheBlonde · 03/12/2008 21:54

Good luck

missingthemountains · 03/12/2008 21:59

Verso - can't help with the BF thing but just wanted to wish you congratulations on DD2! we chatted some while back on the disabled-partner thread (I was moominsmummy then) and I;ve been wondering how you are ever since! good luck with the latch.

Original poster
Verso · 04/12/2008 08:13

Thanks, missing - how nice of you to remember me! Am hoping I will get some answers BF-wise today ... a BF counsellor is calling me back and I'm also going to the local clinic. Things were a bit better overnight - until 3am when DD2 decided she wanted to feed for England! Am bit tired.

OP posts:
turtledove23 · 04/12/2008 08:21

Morning Verso...if I can be of any help, give me a ring? If you want info on thrush I think I must have it all, as have had nipple thrush, ductal thrush, had two bouts of oral thrush with DS and have fought with three GPs over it. Hope you're feeling ok.
BTW...your local BFC is very nice, but she did make me cry, so if you're feeling hormonal I'd warn her first!

turtledove23 · 04/12/2008 08:29

Just wanted to add that instead of silverette you can use plain old seashells. like this

Original poster
Verso · 04/12/2008 12:34

You've changed your name! Took me a while to work out who you are . Thanks for the email. Can I ask the midwife for thrush treatment? She's coming tomorrow.

OP posts:
turtledove23 · 04/12/2008 15:05

Oops...forgot...silly me. You can ask, but imagine she will refer you to GP. Depends. Make sure you get F treated as well even if she has no symptoms. What did BFC say?

Original poster
Verso · 05/12/2008 17:39

Went to GP this am and she gave me Daktarin cream and instructions to 'wipe it off before feeds' because DD2 won't like the taste. It soaks in - so I'm not sure how you're supposed to wipe it off! DD2 HATES the taste. GP didn't give me any treatment for DD2 because she doesn't have white curds in her mouth... (yet).

Community midwife came and briskly asserted that it's NOT thrush and that I must stop feeding for 24 hours, not use the cream, and express and cup feed. She refused to discharge me - even though DD2 has regained 2oz in the past week - until Tuesday.

AAAARGH!! Am really fed up. I know this pain isn't normal, and am convinced it's thrush (I had it with DD1 and remember what it felt like!) but no one seems to agree with me- or worse still, with each other!

I thought this 'over-advice' madness was just a first-time-mother thing but it seems they're just as keen to confuse when it's your second child!

OP posts:
foxytocin · 05/12/2008 17:56

Congratulations on dd2 Verso!

GP is stupid to suggest wiping it off. You are right it soaks in so you can't.

MW obviously also doesn't know enough about bfing. Telling you to stop feeding for 24 hrs is ludicrous. It will do nothing to help or cure. Please contact the ABM tonight. here is their number. 08444 122 949. Here is hoping you will speak to someone about your symptoms. Sometimes the pain from poor latch can be confused with thrush so please speak to a BFC about it again.

Have you tried breast crawl as suggested earlier?

also if you have to go back to the doctor for Thrush treatment, take the thrush leaflet from the BFN site along as it will inform him of the treatment you need. here. There are some links on that page to preview too about nipple pain.

turtledove23 · 05/12/2008 19:40

Verso- Please do go back to gp with leaflet(I emailed it to you. ) If you don't treat F there is NO POINT treating you. She may have it w/o symptoms and you will just pass it back and forth. If you don't feel up to challenging midwife, set your doula on her.
And please continue to BF. You are doing soooo well. I don't know about you, but expressing for 24 hours would hurt me more than baby does...

cairns · 05/12/2008 20:33

Hi

I had thrush with DS1, he did not have any crusts/white in his mouth but my breasts really hurt after a feed and the pain was close to my shoulder in my back. The pain also existed when I expressed (which confirmed my suspisions that it was not just a latch problem!) I only noticed it when my nipples went bright red and the same day finally saw white spots in my DSs mouth, but these visible symptoms must have been ages after I noticed the pain and my nipple refused to heal. I was prescribed Daktarin oral gel by the GP as you can put it on your nipple but was told that you do not need to wash it off as it can be also be used to treat your baby.

Getting your latch sorted is also important, but for me the latch was fine but I slipped on my positioning during a feed so was important to get both checked out. A good BFg counsellor will inspect your nipples and will be able to work out exactly what is wrong from where the cracks are. The smallest adjustment can make the world of difference.

Someone suggested using Jelonet. This was one of the only things that really worked for me to heal the nipple (after the thrush got sorted as nothing healed when the thrush was present). I actually used a combination of jelonet and lasinoh as they stopped the nipple drying out and started the moist wound healing. If you can't get it from your midwife, must good chemists stock it and it is cheap to buy, get the one in strips and cut it to size. I tried the silverette things too (I tried everything...) but they actually made the thrush come back (it was obvious as around my nipple was bright red). I also expressed from the more hurt side and fed using one side for while for a day or so to give the other side chance to heal and then vice versa. But would not use a cup as that is not the answer.

Perservere as you know it is worth it. You are doing so well and are doing all of the right things.