Well fed formula baby or underfed breast fed baby

[firsttimer08]

I started off exclusively breastfeeding but ds was always hungry even after marathon 1 hour sessions - also he was doing poos only after 3 days, when every book/person i consulted suggested that this was an indication of underfed baby and the poos were normally green.

I started a top-feed after my breastfed baby was always hunrgry after feeding sessions, doing green poos and doing poos after 3 days(when every book/person i consulted suggested these as indications of underfed baby|). This has become a vicious cycle, as the baby only demands the bottle and is rejecting the breast. The good thing is that during this time he has been pooing and weeing regularly.

I am starting relactation (as i always wanted to breast feed) and ditching the bottles. Its a struggle, and i have to give top-ups using a syringe which was ds is not very keen on. Breast milk supply has dwindled due to ds being primary on formula for a week and so i'm taking fenugreek on the side.

Anyway since i've started relactation, ds is again not pooing and weeing enough. So i wonder which is better- being underfed on breast milk or wellfed on formula?

Obviously a well fed baby is what you're after. You need to look at reasons why your milk supply may be inadequate (poor latch etc).

How old is your DS?

firstimer, what else was going on with your baby?

How old was he when he was going 3 days between poos? What was his weight? Nothing you say in your post is a definite indication of not getting enough - hour long feeding sessions can be normal, green poo can be normal, infrequent pooing can be normal....you can only judge this in the context of the 'whole baby'. In any case, fixing the breastfeeding might have been a possibility rather than formula - shame none of the people you consulted seemed able to help with this

You sound very motivated and determined - relacation is hard work, and time consuming. I'm assuming you are expressing at least 8 x in 24 hours - that's essential to protect the milk supply, if the baby is not feeding much direct from the breast.

The question you ask is impossible to answer! A baby who is seriously underfed (not growing at all, dehydrated, weak) on breastmilk is obviously better off on formula - but many less dramatic situations are less easy to judge. 'Underfed' would need to be defined, anyway - and fixing the breastfeeding so the baby is not underfed can be explored.

In your situation, I don't think anyone could give an opinion without more info - how much breastfeeding is he doing, what sort of expressing are you doing, how old is he, what does he weigh, how much breastmilk (expressed) does he have....hope you can answer these Qs and the mumsnetters can have a think

I am a breastfeeding counsellor with NCT, BTW.

Well he's 7 weeks now, so i'm wondering if its already too late for relactation. He might be just too set in his ways. Also it pains me to see ds crying (in hunger, obviously he wants the bottle). I am so tempted to just give him the formula and relax.

I wish i had never started on the formula, but I received the wrong advice from family members and unfortunately i cannot turn back the clock. It seemed like a good choice at that time as I noticed how much happier he is after a formula feed versus a breast feed. He sleeps better |(and does not awaken after every 30 mins for a feed) and he is awake and happy for longer, plays around, looks at his toys etc.

In terms of weight gain, he seems to be doing ok, he is now 4.2kg after 7 weeks (born at 3kg), but this includes him being formula fed as well.

i hired a lactation consultant before the problem became worse and she said my milk supply was very low - and the babies needs were v. high. That is when i started the herbal supplements. I am not sure 'why' my milk supply was low, because i was feeding the baby every 30mins-1hour.

also i've heard some breastfed babies reject the bottle if it is introduced too late. If i end up relactating successfully ( ?) would i have to struggle again in 2-3 months time to introduce the bottle? I will be going back to work and so i will not have any other option.

Firsttimer, it's not too late for relactation - but it will need a lot of time and committment, I think, and you need to know that before you decide to 'go for it'.

Relactation doesn't (or shouldn't) mean your baby cries to be fed - it's important to keep him happy and well-fed, and not to deny him formula if this is what he is 'asking' for. It is fine to give him formula and then 'relax' - what you might think about is to give him less formula and more expressed breastmilk, though, and more opportunities to feed 'direct'.

Relactation probably needs the support of someone in real life to help you day by day and to answer questions.

Still not able to judge what happened - if you want to, please share more or your story with answers to the questions I asked in my first post. Maybe I can help

have you tried expressing and giving bottle fed bm?

firsttimer - congratulations on your little boy. It's bloody hard work being a mum isn't it?

My DS is fully breastfed and only poos once a week - that's just him. DD exploded with poo once a day so each baby is different!

He fed for the first twelve weeks for at least an hour and a half pretty much round the clock. He was a bit early so I think he was playing catch up but DD also used to do marathon feed sessions. That is the way they build up your milk supply. If they suckle and suckle, your boobs get emptier and get the message 'make more milk, there isn't enough'. This doesn't mean you didn't have enough, just that it was being calibrated to meet your baby's needs. This happens almost constantly during the first month or so.

Secondly, the baby will like the bottle because it takes very little effort to feed from a bottle, whereas breastfeeding requires a bit of effort from the baby (as well as you obviously).

Good luck, whatever you decide to do.

i'm going through the same thing and at breaking point, i am trying to breast feed exclusivley after using top up, but yesterdayb my dd fed all evening veryv difficutly, screaming, comming on and off my breast, arching her back and going purple; then sleeping for 20mins and then feeding for an hour; then she finally slept for an hour and a half until 1.45 then she was awake feeding for an hour, then screaming for 20 mins;then another hour, then screaming and fussing at my breast until finally at 5.30 i gave her a bottle and she slept for the first time in 24 hours - I can't go on like this much longer, I have no time to express because she's feeding off me constantly, and still she's not gaining weight - so I think for my own sanity formular may be the only answer I too was badly advised and wish I had never started on mix feeding - probably not what you want to hear!

Tenacity - do you have any help? If you can express off one breast whilst feeding from the other this may help but it is easier with some there to assist.
Firsttimer - hope today is better for you. Re introducing the bottle, no 4/5 months is not too late - are you meaning bottle containing ebm so the taste is the same? At this age however you could feed via cup too.

I have had a better night and only one bottle of formular at 7 pm, I ended up sleeping on a duvet in her room and she fed/dozed all night with me lying down and so I got some sleep too - I found that if she fusses when feeding, yesterday I massage my boob and she fed better - speeding up the flow?My DH does his best, and I guess each day we do is a day more breast milk, even if it dosn't quite work out in the end - when will I know my supply is setteled in and she might take less than an hour each feed?

That sounds better Tenacity - with regard to when you could expect bf to settle down, how old is dd?
Massaging can help flow, assists if you have a blocked milk duct too.
You can also try eating oats and drinking fenugreek tea too to increase supply.

tenacity - yes, massage and breast compression can speed up your let down.

If you google Dr Jack Newman and "breast compression" there are some good videos. I don't think I ever got it quite right back then (although I ocassionally do it with DS now and it seems to help when he's impatient) but I have heard it helps other people

DD is 8 weeks - last night the co sleeping was less sucessful, she woke and had a crying fit - she arches her back and goes purple and almost nothing will sooth her - and it took an hour to calm her down - she fed in the early norning but at 9 nothing would pursuade her to feed - latching on - screaming - latching on - screaming - eventually I have put her in the sling on me and she's sleeping peacefully - I will try and wake her for another go in a little while - perhaps she was just tired and not hungry?

Could be, keep her in the sling and let her feed on demand through the day. Hopefully she will feed for less than an hour sometimes but an hour is not unusual at this age. Plus the more she feeds, the more you will make.
Re it settling, I would give it another month - they sometimes have a growth spurt at 12 weeks and I remember dd starting to settle into more of a regular feeding pattern after then.

tenacity - could it be wind? That's what put paid to co-sleeping for us before DS's wind magically disappeared at about 10 weeks. If you're awake try winding her when she's finished feeding.

DS used to wake up in the early hours and just wouldn't settle and we'd have to give him gripe water to clear the wind which really woke us up. If I sat up to feed I stayed awake to burp him which stopped that but didn't help me

hi first timer and tenacity. i felt very sad reading your stories as they sound just like my experience with ds1. after zero family support and bad paediatric advice i started mix feeding for poor weight gain and he quickly refused the breast.

with ds2 i just fed him ALL the time it seemed (about 20times in 24hrs sometimes) and his wt gain has been fine and he is nearly 1 and still bf. BUT it has been a struggle at times with screaming baby, no sleep and it has taken a lot of stubborness not to give formula but we have got through it.

breast compressions do help, also a nursing supplementer might be better than bottles for encouraging latch (i havn't used one though). slings and co-sleeping saved my sanity with ds2, Have you tried a babymoon (go to bed with baby for 24hrs, lots of skin-skin contact)? Migth help supply and you can rest. i found 12-16 weeks the hardest - waking every hour at night! both my boys have poo'd infrequently - record 10 days i think. have you seen a BFC in real life? Domperidone??

i find it frustrating that our culture makes us believe that a crying baby 'wants' formula in a bottle. it is a very deep ingrained idea, esp at 4am!

best of luck with it, and i hope it works out for you both.

just an update on my end. I've decided to let my baby win over me. I've tried almost everything now, feeding system, cup, spoon, syringe, but the baby just will not take the top ups through them and is also rejecting the breast. My supply is ok, but is bound to go down now.

For the last 3 days the baby did breast feed but somehow today again he's gone back to rejecting the breast completely and i've had to top him up with bottles as he had not weed in 3-4 hours ! i feel i was badly advised for introducing the bottle and i've decided now to call it quits. I just cannot take it anymore, its hard to see ds cry in hunger and its hard for me to see him reject my breast too. i feel i've let him down, but hope i can make it up in other ways.

firsttimer - I can understand why you feel so sad. Please do write to whoever advised you to give top ups (I mean if they were a healthcare professional, not your mum or neighbour!!) and explain the longer terms effects of their advice.

I hope things work out for you - they still may do

firsttimer you poor thing!You know that you have done your best, so try not to feel too bad! I know what it is like to have a baby resist you except in my case it was that my ds3 wouldn't take a bottle, and if a baby has made up his mind and is of a stubborn disposition there is very little you can do about it. There is so much more to being a Mum than just feeding though I know it seems like a big deal now.

Firstimer, sorry to hear your story. I think the world is divided into 2 sorts of women - those who can bf with ease and those who struggle. I'm one of the strugglers and I gave up fairly quickly with DS1 but have persevered with DS2.

It's easy to let the feeding issue take you over particularly in the early days and I know exactly how you feel because I've been there myself. If your lo is only 7 weeks only, then you are still hormonal and caught up with the stress of it all - believe me, things will seem better/clearer in a few weeks time.

BUT, even if you never bf again, you have given your baby 7 weeks worth of your milk which is a lot more than many babies have.

And of course, before you give up totally, have you tried La Leche League/NCT counselling? And also FWIW, don't assume because you ff, you cannot also offer some bfs. Your baby is probably getting a bit stressed out because you are stressed out but I think once you relax, he might start taking the breast again. I know mixed feeding is not popular on mn but I mixed fed DS1 until he was over a year old and i had the worst possible start.

Sorry for waffling - just wanted you to know that you are not the only one to have gone through this.

thanks for all your support. I really appreciate it. I know dh has been counselling me that a mother's role is much more beyond bf and hopefully as ds grows i will begin to realise it too.

I did not consider mixed feeding, I assumed that my supply would disappear if i bf only infrequently instead of the 8-12 times a day.

try harder i'd be interested to know about your experience with mix feeding. How did you maintain your supply for 1 year. Did you have to pump at the times you were not nursing?

firtimer, there are also a lot of MNers who exclusively pumped for up to a year because their babies never latched on for one reasdon or another. Hard work but feasible!