Anyone against the banning of formula advertising? If so, why?

[HollyWeen]

I am a student BFC and we are having a debate in next month's tutorial about the pros and cons of formula advertising.

Unfortunately, I am on the pro side and am having a hard time finding any real reasons why formula advertising is a good idea.

Would banning formula advertising make ff mums feel alienated? Would it take away individual choice?

All views appreciated!

TIA!

Goshfilz of course women are not 'evil' for using formula.

I think the argument here is rather that some of us feel a bit cross that it is so hard to get any actual useful information about formula.

Thanks for the details, Crush. The NCT specialist worker was correct in not giving details about ff. The class with a breastfeeding counsellor is indeed a 'breastfeeding class' and you would have been aware of this at booking....there is never any detailed information about formula in any part of the course, and no specialist workers, teachers or breastfeeding counsellors, are trained in this . We are aware that non-commercial information about formula is hard to get, and we do have factsheets about using formula and using bottles.

Group instruction about making up bottles is proscribed under UNICEF Baby Friendly guidance and any hospital classes wanting to become accredited as Baby Friendly would not do it. It's thought that group instruction is not safe or effective, and that it undermines the bf part of the information.

If someone has mastitis, then it is correct to explain to them that carrying on bf is important, as ceasing to bf can lead to an abscess forming. Of course alongside this, should be good information on doing this as comfortably as possible, and if the baby is ill then of course this would need proper medical attention - that's outside a breastfeeding counsellor's boundaries though.

Observing a group demo of making up formula during pregnancy would not have helped you when you became ill 4 weeks post-natal - you needed good help then and there, and if you needed to know more about formula, then of course you should have had as much info as you wanted.

None of what you say supports your claim that NCT does not believe in parents having the choice to use formula.

that is what I frustrated with beachcomber, though it does not really affect me anymore as my baby feeding days are over

Dottoressa - I don't know what happened to you, then. You are exaggerrating what did happen - but by how much? I can't comment if what you say happened didn't actually happen! No one is really responsible for someone else's misinterpretation, unless their communication skills are seriously adrift.

Why would you need someone to tell you formula was an option? If you had planned to breastfeed, then why would they think you had changed your mind unless you told them? I am assuming you were aware that formula existed and didn't need telling about it!

Women contact breastfeeding counsellors all the time with serious, painful breastfeeding worries and difficulties. I credit them with knowing already that babies can be fed with formula. If they ask me to discuss formula as an option - and many do - I talk about it with them and if they decide the right course for them is to switch to formula then we discuss the most comfortable way to do it. Sometimes, they are very upset at the thought of using formula, and we go through the pros and cons of it - I don't try to persuade them either way.

(This is assuming the baby is healthy)

tiktok, do you give advice on mixed feeding or is just one or the other?

oh thanks TT that was a really helpful post to me. I explained how I was made to feel and you are just covering yourself as a BFC.

How does it give Women the choice at an NHS ante natal group that does not mention once-" if you decide to FF"?

Why did I even bother to explain my feelings - I'm off

i'm sorry i really don't want to debate the whole ff v bf but comments like "as ceasing to bf can lead to an abscess forming" are untrue, in some cases carrying on breastfeeding will also lead to an abscess -

Crush, sorry you are cross with me. I had assumed your feelings about feeding were now ok - your posts made sure not everyone was lumped in with the 'ff mothers feel terrible' thing! And while mastitis is a horrible experience, and it's scary to see your baby ill, not giving antenatal info about formula cannot help with any of that

You admitted to 'projectng a bit' in an earlier post...maybe it's happened again?

That sounds sarky, and it's not meant to be. I know feelings about feeding babies run deep and it's important to acknowledge them. Maybe I should have read a bit more into your posts, and I regret that, sorry.

carrots - ceasing to breastfeed suddenly with mastitis is a known risk of abscess. I am not sure of the point you're making, sorry.

Doh - I mean 'abscess is a known risk of suddenly ceasing to breastfeed with mastitis'.

Sorry!

Carrots - why do you say this is untrue?

I've said before and I'll say it again.
Advertising should be banned, it doesn't help anyone, be it formula feeding mothers who only have the adverts to go by to choose which milk to use for their baby, nor breastfeeding mothers who may be struggling and then see the perfect little picture they paint on the adverts of wonderful daddy getting up to feed baby whilst mummy sleeps etc.

When the adverts say ......

"Hi, we're and we make formula milk for babies. It is a substitute, albeit a poor second, to breastmilk for feeding infants from birth until approximately the age of one year old.

Our milk contains
*Water, but not enough so your baby will need extra boiled water.
*Protein, but in too high a concentration so it has to be diluted which lowers the calorie content and then has to be supplemented with lactose.
*Fat, which is less easily absorbed then breastmilk fat.
*Carbohydrate, but in insufficient quantity so lactose has to be added.
*Vitamins and minerals, but not enough so many formulas are enriched with extra vitamins and extra iron.

and sometimes other things we have created in our labs which we have labelled with scientific sounding names and use to claim this milk is closest to breastmilk, when in fact it is closest to cows milk.

Our milk is packaged and marketed to be bought by the most customers so is pretty darn expensive and although people may tell you otherwise, it will not harm your baby to change it's milk, so you can swap and choose as you like to see which one suits your child's make-up best.

Ideally your child should be fed breastmilk, as it is what is provided by nature for them, but as not everyone wants or is able to breastfeed we have made this milk to make an awful lot of money in this gap in the market, but if you do choose to use our formula instead of breastmilk, you will be putting your child at risk of more gastro problems, allergies, higher risk of heart disease later in life, doubling the risk of chest infections between birth and seven, doubling the risk of ear infections, making it five times more likely to suffer from urinary tract infections, and also will make the mother more at risk of osteoporosis, breast cancer and ovarian cancer."

only then will I agree with advertising formula milk.

The thing is though that tiktok is right that people should complain if a BFC or anybody else behaves in an unprofessional manner.

If the behaviour was not unprofessional but still upsetting for the person concenrned then that is an entirely different discussion.

Carrotsandpeas, I had mastisis twice and both times I was given the info that stopping feeding was putting me at risk for an abscess. I think you will find that this is true.

i agree!!!! that stopping bf will lead to absess etc. my point was that the wording made it sound like if you carry on bf you wont get an absess which IS untrue - skulks off to pedants corner.

Beachcomber, I wish more people would let organistions like NCT know if they are unhappy or upset - they may not get the answer they want, but we should be aware of their upset.

I think it's impossible not to upset anyone ever - people have individual sensitivities and we can't read their minds or guess at what they might be thinking.

filz - breastfeeding counsellors share information and support rather than advice, but I know what you mean

We are breastfeeding counsellors, but many of the women who call us want to talk about mixed feeding, and we will answer their questions as much as we can...they need to know that any formula may have an impact on their choice to continue breastfeeding and on health outcomes, for instance, and that if they want to preserve breastfeeding, there are ways to use formula that minimise impact.

If someone calls and says, for example, 'I plan to use breastfeeding alongside formula from the start' then they need to know the drawbacks of that. Many women are not aware of these, and welcome the chance to talk about all aspects so they can make an informed choice.

What we can't do is to share info on what sort of bottles, teats to use, and 'consumer' stuff like that. Some bfcs know about the different types (rather than actual brands) of formula and will share what they know, too, but not everyone knows this.

We don't deal with solely formula feeding questions, that is, if the mother is not breastfeeding at all. However, we would 'signpost' her to her midwife or health visitor, if appropriate.

Hope that answers your question

yes it does it just seems that alot of people do not think you can do both and think its one or the other iykwim. I personally felt mixed feeding helped me carry on breastfeeding for as long as I did (though I did understand the mechanics of breastfeeding which I think makes a difference) I meet loits of women though who gave up breastfeeding completely because they felt so overwhelmed with it and just immediately 'just gave bottles instead' and I never understand why it has to be either, or. If that makes sense.

Obviously though, ultimately it is none of my business

The best health outcomes are seen in exclusive breastfeeding, and women need to know that. They also need to know that there are ways of using formula alongside, if they need to/want to, that make it possible to preserve breastfeeding and even to go back to full breastfeeding if that's what they want.

What makes me cross is people who propagate crazy ideas that formula somehow 'destroys' the positive effects of breastfeeding - very demoralising to mothers and just not true!

I really don't get the problem with advertising forumla at all.

Seeing an ad for forumla would not influence my choice on wether to bf or ff, or which formula to choose either, and neither would price.

I find it quite patronising tbh that people think that we are so stuopid that we will decide how to feed our baby and with what purley based on an advert.

I don't think adverts make poeple FF. Women generally have already made their minds up or, like us, are forced to ff for medical reasons.
I can't imagine anyone planning to bf sees an advert and says 'hey, I'll do that'

Thats exactly what I meant NMC but you said it without waffling LOL.

but dont' you think if a mom is tired becuse her baby isn't sleeping (in a compltetly normal baby kind of way) and a formula ad comes on and the baby is sleeping and wonderful then she might be swayed?

I was unable to breast feed my son properly and switched to formula when the midwife told me to - I would have liked help to continue breast feeding but I didn't know where to go for it. DS is now 2 and is healthy, but I still feel a bit bad about it. So many people are so-pro breast feeding and it can make mothers who formula-feed feel very bad. Advertising formula shouldn't be banned.

It's not stupid to be influenced by advertising. It's human. Individuals may not be influenced by individual ads, but formula advertising certainly does increase formula sales or else the manufacturers would not do it....basic commercial imperative there!

In countries where advertising and promotion of formula is not regulated at all, there are huge amounts of it.

While it might not have any effect at all on one person, it could have an effect on another...and it has a general effect of misinforming people about ingredients and properties.

I assume you want any advertising to be clear and not misleading, yes? And not to hide things? Or does it not bother you that ff mothers have to choose between logos and slogans, rather than decent information?

wot - you wanted help with breastfeeding and did not get it, and you feel sad about your experience 2 years on This is not uncommon at all. Women need more bf help and they need to know how to access it.

How does permitting formula advertising help mothers in your situation?