Getting desperate already :-( - Please help!

[MrsMattie]

Had six weeks of hellish bf-ing with DS1, with two almighty bouts of mastitis - was hospitalised for the second bout and gave up bf-ing altogether after that.

Hoped to have a better experience this time around. Gave birth to DD on Friday. Had plenty of skin-to-skin straight away and brought her to the breast within minutes of birth. She has been feeding regularly since day one (although I still find the whole 'colostrum' stage bloody hard work!). However, despite her getting a decent latch early on, my nipples were very, very sore almost immediately. I have sort of worked out for myself/ accepted that I just have very sensitive nipples that are also quite flat and need to be 'drawn out' at each feed, which also makes them sore initially (MWs / Bf counsellors had always blamed the soreness I experienced with DS on a poor latch, but DD's latch seems really good...)

Anyway...my milk came in yesterday and I am at my wits end already. The engorgement is hideous - just as bad as last time - and I still have no idea how to cope with it. Cold flannels, hot flannels, massaging under a warm shower, expressing a little bit to relieve the fullness befre feeds etc etc etc - none of it does a thing. I have been trying to get DD to feed as regularly as possible. She is a sleepy baby and feeding for 20-25 mins from one breast every 2-3 hours is about the most she can manage (and that is with much coaxing from me, waking her for feeds etc...). However, that doesn't drain my breasts enough and within an hour of feeding they are absolutely full to the brim, rock hard and sore. My alrready sore nipples are bleeding and I am starting to dread feeds already - DD is only 4 days old!

I've been here before, and I am so worried that it will end in mastitis ...or that I will have to sop bf-ing

Why is this so bloody hard? I am dreading tonight, when I will have to set my alarm fro very 2 hours and try to get a reluctant baby to feed just to stop my breasts ending up like two burning hot cannon balls

Sorry for essay...just really need some advice, as I have had such a wonderful birth experience with this baby and don't want it soiled by horrible feeding issues

Have you tried pinching your nipple and feeding it right in? It's hard to know, I would say express but then your just going to make more and more milk. I was very engorged for a while after DS, and got mastitis but it eased in the end once the supply settled.

Hi MostlyReindeer - thanks for the quick reply!

At the moment the only way I can feed is to pinch the nipple and kind of hold it in her mouth. She will latch on pretty quickly and well that way, but it is still very painful for the first few minutes of the feed (like razor blades, to be honest) and then just about bearable for the rest of the time. However, it seems like I am just making way too much milk. No amount of feeding clears it, and as you said, I am very wary of expressing as it messed up my supply totally last time. I have only used the pump to take the bare minimum of milk out of my breast every other feed or so, as I am so engorged DD literally cannot latch on if I don't do this. I just wish I knew there was definitely going to be some let up to this.

Argh, so frustrating!

Ah, I had the exact same for... a week or so? It does feel like you have made too much milk or something. One thing that helps is making sure your nipples aren't hard, make sure they are abit flexy before you feed. Apart from that I really don't know, mine just eased after a while - with both DSs. Alot of times I would sort of explode with milk also, have massive pains then they would ease. DS1 had a bad latch but I still had the pains with expressing, and DS2 had a super latch (I think anyway!) and it was still painful at first.

no expert at all but I'm sure it will be over in a few days as supply settles down? ds2 was painful to feed for a couple of weeks and his latch was fine but the pain did get better quite quickly.
best of luck and sounds like you are doing everything right...

Oh yes - reading your description has taken me back with a jolt to those early weeks of feeding... both times for me it was so painful for the first feeds after my milk came in and then for weeks when dd - or ds latched on

You sound like you're doing everything right and the only advice I can give is perhaps to feed for less time (on each breast) and on both breasts at each feed (so still 25 mins in total) - this way you'll trigger less milk production and it might relieve your engorgement

Best of luck MrsMattie

I had an enormous milk supply (although not as huge as your sounds) and once my milk came in (which took five days as birth was horrible) I used to get "boulder boobs" as well. Nipples were cracked and painful, too, as poor DS chewed me raw because no milk until day 5. I don't know why we are told to expect that labour will be painful and we're (for the most part) ok with that, but we aren't told that for a lot, if not most women, breast-feeding is quite painful at first. From everyone I've talked to and everything I've read on MN, most women seem to find it that way - and fgs, how could it not be?? I don't know about you all but my nipples were never treated that way before DS came along!! So I don't see how a baby going at them every 2-3 hours wouldn't make them raw at first, until they toughen up. Why don't they tell us that so that women expect it and realize it's normal?
Anyway... I'll get off my soap box now...
what I did with DS was pump off the excess, so that my breasts were more comfortable, even if it led to me making way more milk than DS could use at the time. (In my situation, I was going to have to go back to work when he was 3 months old and D
h was going to be bottle-feeding him breast-milk so I just froze the excess and had a really good stored-up supply. Another girlfriend of mine did the same even though she wasn't going back to work and once she had a good frozen supply she just dumped the excess milk.)
I had a really, really, really excessive milk supply for a few weks... just pumped lots, and then it settled down to merely excessive... I dealt with it by pumping lots (and lost tons of weight in the process), and when DS was about 4 months old, my supply suddenly settled into what he needed and a little extra. It happens to some women I guess, and the excess and engorgement can be really painful. I remember the let-down used to make me grit my teeth and make my eyes water. About the painful cracked nipples, lots of people recommend Lansinoh, but I didn't really find that it did much. What saved me was a homeopathic remedy called Phytolacca (health food stores or homeopathic practitioners would have it - if all else fails CAT me and I'll send you some), you get the 30C strength, and take 3 pilules every 15 min until the pain gets better, and then 3 pilules, 3 times a day. It can also help balance out supply.
Hope that helps somewhat...
and BTW, congratulations on your little baby girl!!!
xxx

i would express off more than the bare minimum Mrs Mattie. i would as much as it needs to pinch comfortably and get a latch she can keep.

the potential oversupply side is something to address after the latch issue is resolved.

Thanks for all the great advice (and sympathies). I really appreciate it. It just helps so much to be able to waffle on about it to people who understand! The women in my family are all lovely and supportive, but they have all found breastfeeding quite straightforward and so are at a loss as to how best to advise me. My mum was in tears when my last baby was born as she bf'd me and my sister no trouble - she said she just hadn't realised how hard it could be and just felt totally useless because she didn't know what to suggest or how to help.

Anyway, I had a bit of a wobble last night as one of my nipples was bleeding quite nastily and I was exhausted from feeding DD. If I had had a bottle and some formula in the house I would have fed her with that . However, she managed a few really good long feeds this morning, plus I expressed more than the bare minimum like you said foxytocin and Jacksmama, and my breasts aren't quite so bad at the moment. Only problem is, she fed so well she is knackered and has only woken once for a 15 min feed since about 7am this morning! I'll have to wake her in a minute, actually!

xxx

I got mastitis 3x - horrible. Then someone on here suggested that when I felt a lump I should use a wide toothed comb and comb from the lump towards the nipple.

Have had lumps since - but never again mastitis. It really helped me. I was about to give up at 4 weeks but here I am at 7 months still bf.

MrsMattie, I absolutely swear by those cold gel filled pads that you can put in the fridge to ease things... gosh poor you. Sorry this may not help but just found it did for me.

Oh MM

I can remember those days like yesterday. I used booby tubes for the engorgement and they were SSOOOO soothing and soft next to my HUGE SOLID SORE breasts! But i would imagine that if you could keep a tub of cold water in the fridge with flannels and just remove them when using them - that would be just as soothing.

Regarding the cracked nipples Silverette is the thing you should get your hands on, they are AMAZING. I was completely healed within 36 hours of wearing them, but they soothed me immediately. I cannot highly recommend them enough - by far my best bfing item.

Hang in there, things will calm down soon, you are nearly passed the worst of it. Keep thinking positive thoughts

Apologies if this is way below what you need / you've already tried but I was amazed at how well cabbage leaves did work. Plus breast shells for between feeds if you're not going anywghere
Anyway, congratulations and I'm sorry you're having a tough time

Evening all. Thanks again, and thanks for all new advice.

mumeroo and determination - I'm looking at the silverette and the gel filled pads online as we speak!
Stealth - I'm also sending my DH out for cabbage tomorrow morning (although I tried this last time and it didn't work - but perhaps things had got too bad by then, I don't know?).

The engorgment seems to be affecting my left breast worse than my right, which happened last time too. My left nipple is so badly cracked now that when I expressed a bit of milk earlier it looked like a strawberry milkshake - really gross. My breasts also feel lumpy at the sides and underneath, so am trying lots of massage. Very painful, though

On the plus side, the midwife came to visit today and watched me feed - she said DD was 'beautifully latched' and praised me loads for keeping going. She didn't really advise anything different from what I've already been doing, though. On the down side the pain from feeding on my left breast made me cry like an absolute baby this afternoon . It is by far the worst pain I have suffered throughout the who;e birth experience, including a c-section!

I just love the look in my DD's eye when she is all full with milk and sleepy, though. I really feel like I missed out on that with my son and so I'm a bit demented about making this work this time around - I recognise that.

Anyway...waffle over! Thanks again and will let you know how I get on xx

Mrs Mattie you are doing SO well. It WILL get easier and you have such a positive attitude - that is a big plus for you. I haven't got any new suggestions I just wanted to wish you well. Reading your post made me feel very emotional. I found the first few months feeding my two everso tough. DD is 9 months now and I look back and see that the early struggles were all worth it. It does pass. The early days are ridiculously hard though.
It's important for you not to struggle alone. You CAN do it but you need to be supported. Do keep talking to the midwives, posting on here etc.
Many congratulations to you by the way! x

well done for getting this far, I've bf all 3 of mine and its not easy at all

if you get mastitis use the foamy net things for in the shower and massage down towards your nipple - they are wonderful

someone also said feeding on all fours with baby on floor under you can sometimes help? I haven't personally tried it but if it works it works!!

I used nipple cream from the active birth centre and I swear by it, nothing else worked and it helped me keep going as healed my sore cracked bleeding poor nipples

do remember to keep asking, its how I got through it too

x

MM,

Does your Left breast have any inflammation on it? Do you feel like you could be developing mastitis again? Please have the paracetamol at the ready also get some Belladonna - this is a homeopathic remedy that clears up inflammation - i found this stuff just brilliant. I have had Mastitis 6x now (4x with dd1 and 2x with dd2). Try using a wide toothed comb to gently comb your breast down towards your nipple. Do this whilst on all fours so that gravity can help too ideally with your lo latched a feeding at the same time! This will help clear the lumps. Also, warms packs before feeds or expressing or massaging to help open the milk ducts and then cool flannels afterwards to help sooth them and reduce any swelling and tenderness..

Hang in there you are doing a fantastic job, keep up the hard work. {{Big Hugs}}

Hi MrsMattie - haven't checked this post in a few days - how's it going?
xxx