DD gets angry/agitated when breast feeding :(

[tenacityflux]

My DD is 6 week and I have been trying to BF all along but have also been using formular to top up as my milk supply was low due to non-baby related stress the week she was born; so she has been having a few oz top up feed but only after a breast feed. I want to try and get her back to all BF but this is hard - she feeds for a long time, hard at night, I keep trying to check my latching position and consulting the books and looking at pictures, the advisors say she is latching on finel but sometimes, just now for example, I go to feed her and she latches but comes right off again, begins to claw and bang at my breast and then gets more and more agitated, starts screaming and forcing her self off, I try and calm her with winding/cuddling/walking about and try again but she soon get's hysterical and red faced; DH gets upset and either insists we bottle feed her as she must be hungry, or he takes her and she passes out on him; we're about to give her a bath and I was trying to feed her before hand as I normally do in the evening; - do other mums find their babies react like this to BF and what can I try to keep her calm - her nails are scratching on me so I get a rash/bleed and they've been trimmed!This also makes me really upset as I want to get back to BF but feel under preassure to stop all together as she gets so angry with it, but not all the time!

another thought- she sounds like she isn't actually hungry all the time - but wants to suck - try letting her suck your finger or a dummy - it might well calm her down.

I have tried a dummy, but she dosn't get on with them, tends to suck then spit it out, which usually ends up with her getting angry every time it falls out, she does sometimes suck at my finger; I do express a little milk but I agree she may just not be hungry, I check for wind/nappy but most of the time I think she's tired but she fights sleep all the time, she never drops off on her own and I can't really find anyway to help her, apart from being in the sling; she will sit quite happily but never seems to relax enough to let all the yawns take over - does it matter if she only sleeps in the sling, will she ever learn to settle without it? I presume she will be the age of three, but perhaps sooner!

have you tried white nose - eg an out of tune radio - that can help them get to sleep.

tenacity - your DD is only 6 weeks old. I think the priority for now is to get some sleep and start to feel a bit better about being a mum. She will not 'learn' anything at this age.

So what if she sleeps in the sling/goes to sleep on the nipple/pushes your DH out of bed!!?

You sound like you are doing a great job to me but you need to stop fretting and remember that nobody brags about a normal baby that wakes all night. I remember trying to feed DD1 all the time, whenever she made a squeak, poor old DD2 just got fed every couple of hours and went to bed at 8pm out of necessity.

tena,

I used a sling from birth until dd2 was over 1year, she would NEVER settle unless she was in the sling. So i would eat, play, shop.. rest - actually i done everything except drive and sleep with dd2 in the sling. Now at 20 months i still cannot get her to sleep all night without me being in the same bed as her.

I know only too well how you are feeling and it is exhausting but the time does and will pass soon. I think it is getting easier now. I know for sure though that i will NEVER do it again

I would however, Shhh her whilst holding the dummy in place! and have her swaddled with a musling that you have wiped your breast with all day long so your scent is there too! If i could turn the clock back i would make sure dd2 took a dummy.

She was grumbling and crying and so was I, so I put her in her basket so I could go and blow my nose and to make me look like a complete liar, she's gone off to sleep on her own!!The bloomin' pain of it is that I am going to a clinic and will have to wake her up in quater of an hour!!!I gosh, I really want to get to the next fun bits, I love spending time with her when we look at things and dance and cuddle, why do I get so frustrated and upset - oh well, probably because you care, that's why you worry, I guess if I had the temperment to shut the door on her and walk away I wouldn't worry like I do but I wouldn't like to be that cold. Oh poo, I will persever with the dummy, ho hum, if only I could stop getting so upset it might be easier!

Hello again, have been thinking about you. People lie hugely at baby groups, your experience is the norm, I have no idea why so many mums get into competitive sleeping talking about their babies.

Please dont worry about teaching her to fall asleep alone, I beat myself up hugely everytime I slept with DD1 or rocked her to sleep etc etc, in retrospect it was crazy. Many people offering advice seem to forget what the very early days are like, and you are in the very very early days even if it feels like you've been at it for ever! The change in babies over the first year is just phenomenal and every month you will be fighting a different battle, its all about survival, hopefully relatively cheerful survival.

Having your scent on things may work.We had some sucess with DD1 warming her moses basket with a hot water bottle before we put her in (obviously take it out before she goes in) and using a t shirt I'd slept in as a sheet. Then, sometimes, we could edge her into the basket without the cold sheet and new smell waking her up. I also found dummies very useful and second advice that you migth have to hold it there and do lots of jiggling a shushing.

You are still breastfeeding at six weeks which is hard work (it does become the easier option later I promise) and she is putting on weight, and you have found mumsnet so well done you. I am sure things will start to settle soon.

Do you think that you are getting upset solely because you are sleep deprived? Tena, you are doing a brilliant job, it is just so so hard for the first few months. Maybe you should go for a massage or a sauna or something just to get you away for 1 hour.. you would feel much better for it.

Hi tenacity - I really feel for you, as I went through all this with DS.

Every daytime feed was like a fight. He fed ebm brilliantly, and I ended up feeling like I was doing more harm than good persisting with the bf. I was so close to giving up and was frequently in tears. DS was quite 'colicky' and it was also suggested to me that he had silent reflux. In fact all sorts of things were suggested to me, none of which worked. I could tell that DS was in discomfort when he fed and there was nothing I could do about it. Anyway, whatever the cause, things got much easier at 3 months and I am still exclusively bf at 4.5 months.

My advice is to stick with it, but it would be completely understandable if you feel you can't. It makes things so difficult when they feed like this - I never felt I could feed whilst out as DS caused such a fuss. I used to look at mums feeding their babies so peacefully and wondered why I couldn't. This did undermine my confidence, but a few months on and I'm so glad I persisted

Good luck whatever you decide to do

Thank you guys - I am steralizing some dummies and we'll try again, I'm sure the sleep deprivation is behind my tears, I think the hardest part of BF is that you can't really have someone give you much of a break, with her really wanting to feed every 2 to 3 hours - an yes, I'm just too bloomin honest at groups and when old ladies say 'Isn't she good?' as I am in a shop desperately trying to stay standing, I always say 'God no, she's awake all the time and only quiet in her sling,' and they all look at you funny!I am determined to at least get to two months (4th of December) and then see how we're going, I figure small goals and one step at a time - when I'm a bit sane I know this will pass it's just when the madness creeps up on me and DH is saying 'We should take her to the doctors she can't be normal, she only sleeps six hours a day and on the internet is says she should be sleeping at least 8!'

Tena,

It all sounds normal to me... it is just that all these 'looney mums/grannys' think that 'better babies' sleep all night. When actually in reality it is 'normal' for a baby to be up very often for feeding. I was always very honest when it came to my concerns and problems. Better that way to get it off your chest and communicate.

It does get easier tena, just takes a bit of time, perserverance and determination but sure pays off.

hi tenacityflux, glad things are looking a bit better for you-it's bad without sleep-ds was up until 2 last night just wanting to feed and 'talk'!! keep trying with the dummy, ds used to suck his and then it would fall out, but i used to hold it in and rub his cheek to make him suck it. he loves it now and it really helps. good luck tonight.
x

if it is any consolation - I remember standing outside my front door willing DH to come home while DS1 screamed in the living room (having not slept for most of the day - and me having spent hours rocking him in the pram to try and calm him) - it is a mad phase sometimes (not always). I used to use status quo (no idea why that worked or how I figured it out !) to calm him down and get him to sleep.

The key really seemed to be overtiredness - I didn't know how to spot the signs - and it took me ages to realise they were much more subtle than yawning.

Try and put her down before you think she needs it (anything after 1 hour awake, but definitely before 2 hours)- if it works then bonus time and if not - you haven't lost anything through trying.

And maybe try massaging the breast before feeding her to try and speed up the letdown - if she is tired and grumpy and hungry a slow letdown may be really upsetting her.

We tried to settle her without the last remaining bottle so i fed her and eventually she went off and i put her in her crib and we has half an hour of sleep and then she woke up screaming;i tried to settle her for an hour with shushing and rocking but in the end sat and fed her until she was asleep again at 9.45 so put her down. DH registered doubts about bf sparked by mil who rang and suggested she have bottles at night so dd would have 'eaten propperly' he is upset that he can't feed her and dosn't think we can keep going with her erratic night time feeding and is cross because mil won't be able to babysit over night till next year.I try and explain that i want to keep going for now and that any bottles will interrupt my supply, he says he can't believe people feed like this. I try and explain that she will eat more at a time when she is bigger,see he is not convinced.He is still sure she is abnormal.
She sleeps till 2 which is better than before as i am asleep by 11, i decide not to go into the nursery and feed her lying down till 3.30 then spend an hour trying to settel herv with a dummy, twice she nearly gives in but remains wide awake;eventually i give in and put her in bed and feed/doze till six, when dh gets up and i change her and doze/feed until she begins her morning scream. Have to try and help her nap tried hair dryer but no joy, still not happy with dummy, but we'll try again. Can't help wondering if bottles would lead to more regular routine, as she winds up for another scream-a-thon.

Did you try swaddling her? and using something with your smell to lay next to her?

Do you have a night light show for projecting the lights onto the ceiling? This might re-direct her attention and help sooth her to sleep.

What abbout look here for some more ideas;
how to calm your crying baby

You should also print this info off for your non-supportive MIL! also, let your dh have a read to help encourage you

Benefits of Breastfeeding

It is hard when your DH does not feel the same way about breast feeding as you, but to be fair to him he is probably worried about you. How about you say to him 'lets stick with breast feeding for another 4 weeks and see where we are then'. Things change so quickly you will be in a different place in 4 weeks time. It gives you some breathing space and him a deadline for another discussion. I would really really go and see a breast feeding consellor and or join a breast feeding group to get face to face advice and support.

oo good links determination

I put a tshirt on her bed, we've got one of those heart beat matresses which helps about 5%, and we swaddle her in a gently warmed swaddle cloth, this works at first but when she wakes again she generally wants out, and when we get her in the ling or asleep, then you are so cautious about her waking up again, then you don't dare risk it! I thought of lights and we found one of those disco balls in a gadget shop, and sometimes during the day we can get 15 mins of quiet if she watches it, I would like to find a stronger one as it dosen't project onto the ceiling and i think that would help if she were looking up. I am convinced most of the time she's over tired, but so little seems to sooth her - I play swing music which has a nice lulling sound, she would probably feed 24 hours a day if I let her but then I am never sure if she actually gets milk and I get pretty sore, so it's back to the sling, as when she's been awake since 9 am, which she has today, it's the only way I can get her to sleep for an hour or so when I go for a walk. I guess sometimes at least she falls asleep on the boob so perhaps she will eventually go without the sling, I just need to find a way at night to get her to sleep inher crib as I'm really not keen to co-sleep, I know that it helps with her constant night feeding but then again, you have to do what feels right for you and I just don't want her to be sleeping with us for the next year,but I guess it's just (just she says..) a matter of keeping on with the dummy, the t-shirt, the music and so forth - so far the only white noise she like is the power shower! I can either move into the bathroom, or I shall have to record the sound and play it on a loop! She's in the sling right now so I have both hands free and hence the long message. Thank you for the crying link, I have seen quite a few of those ideas before, but they all look good, not sure what catagory her crying fit's into, she will very quickly get to a stage where she is almost breathless and saying 'ack..ack...ack' no matter what I do, hold her, change her, rock her, it may be colic but then she does it all times and not for that long, it's just so strong and she throws herself from side to side, it's quite awesome, when you're not totally sleep deprived, it's almost impressive! I'll shut up now

tenacity - it sounds like you're doing really well getting rid of the bottles.

Please tell your DH that my DS was pretty much like this for the first few weeks. They don't stay like that at at 10 months (today!) those days are a distant memory.

I have a DS who stuffs his face on his solids (we BLW) and seems to be starting to day wean himself (He only really has BF in the day if I haven't done enough dinner for him or if we're doing a nap at home - if we're out he goes off in the car or the sling).

Also, a few points I think might help -

• at this age, being in the sling a lot is a good thing. It doesn't mean they'll always want to be in the sling (we get asked that a lot!) If she is happy in the sling, she's probably not really hungry so have a break. The walks will be good for you too. My DS was always just as happy with DH taking him in the sling too
• you're probably still making up for the supply you would have lost when you were using bottles, so give yourself a break - its not your fault, or his fault he needs to feed so much, just something you need to do!
• some bottle fed babies follow more of a routine, but others really don't (my SIL's nephew is one of those)

You're doing really well!

Agree on the sling point chairmum. My DS loved it at that age and I'd rely on it for daytime sleeps. Now though at 4 months he gets really bored in it and wants out

She may well be on a lot in the evenings, some babies feed on and off for hours in the evening, called cluster feeding and again is normal. Get a good DVD series and biscuits and settle in on the sofa for the duration. You might well find that she will go longer between feeds in the day but just seems to want to feed all evening. I know it is difficult to keep the faith when people keep talking about routines and babies feeding every 4 hours or whatever but this just isnt the way it is for lots of babies and she will find her routine in time. DD2 used to settle for her longest sleep of the night (about 3 to 4 hours) at this age at about 9.30 -10.30pm, and gently this got earlier and earlier over the next few months. Also her day sleeps settled eventually into two naps a day, then one and now at 21 months, sadly, none. I went with her own routine and it was so much less stresful than DD1 who I was trying to get down when she wasnt ready. Also as for getting sore, be religious with the nipple cream and make sure your latch is good, you dont wnat nipples falling off on top of everything else.

Is there anyone around who can come and do nice things for you like cook tea or jiggle her while you shower?

I dont mean to sound so bossy, I do remember how it felt and ~I have every sympathy

hi tenacityflux, how are you getting on? hope things have settled down and are alot better for you?