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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Original poster

My mother starved us as newborns....

35 replies

aurorec · 10/11/2008 16:52

My mother had all three of her children in France in the 70s- she told me recently she was told then that colostrum wasn't real milk and shouldn't be given to babies.

She seems to remember that my siblings and I were given NOTHING until her milk came in. I just can't believe that... Has anyone heard anything like that before???
Surely we were given at least formula?

OP posts:
whomovedmychocolate · 10/11/2008 16:53

You were probably given sugar water to prevent you dying but that was quite common I believe. Shocking isn't it?

Original poster
aurorec · 10/11/2008 16:55

[WTF]

OP posts:
oatcake · 10/11/2008 16:56

that's interesting... I know that muslim women prefer to bottlefeed until their milk comes in and generally breastfeed very well on leaving hospital.

I would imagine that you would all be dead if absolutely nothing was given to you for the couple of days until the milk boat arrived...

whomovedmychocolate · 10/11/2008 16:57

Actually few babies need anything for the first 36 hours or so, though they can become dehydrated. But the idea that colustrum is bad - madness, utter madness.

Mine was more a milk ferry than a milk boat oatcake (or possibly a milk float)

oatcake · 10/11/2008 17:00

LOL! however, I beg to differ about "few" babies needing anything - I know I'm over cautious as a midwife but I've seen what low blood sugars can do to many a baby...

chequersandchess · 10/11/2008 17:03

I'm sure I was told about a country that still does this in my ante natal classes. Can't remember where it was supposed to have been now...

HeadFairy · 10/11/2008 17:03

I didn't realise milk would come in without the extra stimulation of sucking. But really how silly? Mind you the French think we're all fat, perhaps it was some crazy French neo-natal diet?

wannaBe · 10/11/2008 17:05

don't scientologists do this?

whomovedmychocolate · 10/11/2008 17:05

oatcake - sorry I didn't mean what I wrote (tired). I was always told they needed fluid but not the nourishment of milk for the first few days because what they had onboard already was sufficient till milk properly arrived.

Please don't shatter my final delusion that my first midwife wasn't a total numpty

stillstanding · 10/11/2008 17:08

Oatcake, what is it that newborns actually need? I am very interested as had a nightmare with DS and want to make sure I have my facts straight with no. 2.

With DS (who arrived having ingested loads of meconium after a very tough labour) he struggled to latch. I was determined to bf but the midwives kept telling me that I wasnt producing enough milk and wanted to give him formula.

I had understood from my (very limited) knowledge that newborns only needed a tiny bit of colustrum (the size of a nut I think the anaology was) but they persisted. Eventually I relented and they gave him little cups of formula to sip from.

It all ended happily as when I got home the bfing took off but I felt completely undermined in hospital and would very much like to know what exactly what it is that newborns do need.

oatcake · 10/11/2008 17:09

oh, we (midwives) all say different things! so I'm not dissing what any other midwife says, I'd just question it and look it up myself.

I tell women to take their pick of advice given and go with it!

things change all the time in midwifery so I'm not surprised about the original posting..

bronze · 10/11/2008 17:12

Must be true that they don't need milk. DD wasn't given anything in her stomach for at least the first 5 days of her life and she was fine. She had some kind of drip thing (long line) which fed her sugar and minerals and things.

edam · 10/11/2008 17:12

Well, I'd imagine that human beings wouldn't actually produce colostrum if it was completely unnecessary. The idea that you shouldn't do as nature intended and feed it to babies seems quite bizarre.

oatcake · 10/11/2008 17:14

oooh, gosh, stillstanding, don't wish to leave without saying I've read your post but I think I need a bit more time to respond and I'm afraid that I've got to shoot now as I have a reflexology client coming round and I need to iron my uniform!

I'm working tomorrow and will try and get my facts straight with some respected colleagues tomorrow...

Sorry to hear about the pressure you were under to artificially feed.

stillstanding · 10/11/2008 17:15

I was told it was like "golden nectar" and that even if you didnt want to bf you should try to give your lo at least that

edam · 10/11/2008 17:15

Oh, I'm sure it's possible to find an alternative if medically necessary for whatever reason, but the idea that colostrum is some kind of optional extra in anything other than special circumstances does seem barking.

As an example, that poor baby in Yarls' Wood immigration detention centre survived when the awful staff refused her formula for 18 hours, but I'm sure water didn't actually do her much good.

stillstanding · 10/11/2008 17:16

Thanks, oatcake - that would be wonderful!

tiktok · 10/11/2008 17:37

Some cultures have a resistance to giving colostrum - nothing to do with religion though and it's not restricted to predominantly Muslim countries. It is erroneous, of course, as colostrum is very valuable and healthworkers everywhere discourage the idea that it isn't.

Babies who have nothing for 2-3 days are probably unlikely to die and if bf gets going ad lib afterwards most will recover from the mild dehydration that probably ensues - but it's not a good idea as we know that early and frequent removal of colostrum does encourage effective bf.

Babies who can't get 'at' the colostrum because of latching difficulties should, on the whole, not have formula - the mum should be helped to hand express colostrum for the baby to have by cup or syringe. stillstanding, you may have been an exception to this for all I know, but I'd still be your midwives were justified...

Suedonim · 10/11/2008 17:37

I'm sure I've read that mothers in India don't bf until their milk comes in and the baby just has water until then.

How come our vet sell bags of dried lamb/calf colostrum? Where does it come from? That's always been a mystery to me.

TinkerBellesMum · 10/11/2008 18:00

We were told on our course that Muslims (I'm sure it's not universal before anyone picks me up on that! We were discussing cultural views of breastfeeding and the foreign ladies were talking about their own cultures) see the colostrum as being dirty because it was inside during pregnancy and think it's been in contact with blood. Some cultures think it's not good because of the colour.

My trainer was saying she's had ladies in hospital getting sick because they refuse to give the colostrum and won't express. They get referred to the Buddies when they leave hospital having only bottle fed and made themselves ill.

stillstanding · 10/11/2008 18:14

Thanks, Tiktok. The midwife did try to help me with hand expressing but she was quite stretched and didnt have much time. So in the end she put me on an electrical express machine which hurt like crazy and wasnt very effective. She said that I hadnt expressed enough which was why we had to resort to formula. But I used to get at least half if not a full syringe's worth each time which I thought (given what I was told about newborns only needing a "nut's worth" of colostrum) that was enough.

For me, at that time I just didnt know enough about it (or feel strong enough) to be able to argue my case and therefore it was easier to just give in. My thinking was that a little bit of formula wasnt the end of the world and once I was at home I would sort it out. But I am determined to be FULLY informed for no. 2 - Are there disadvantages in giving formula at this stage (for someone who does want to exclusively bf, I mean - not knocking anyone else's choices)?

TinkerBellesMum · 10/11/2008 18:21

stillstanding I saw a poster and I can't remember who's it was (one of the big organisations) that said colostrum comes at teaspoon amounts at a time. I was a bit when I heard that as it was all I could express when Tink was in the unit and I always felt sad it wasn't enough.

tiktok · 10/11/2008 18:23

TBM - they should really not be telling you it's to do with Islam, as it really is nothing religious at all. There is no religious ban on colostrum, and plenty of mothers from other religious groups withhold colostrum - this paper takes a look at the practice

www.internationalbreastfeedingjournal.com/content/1/1/7

tiktok · 10/11/2008 18:25

stillstanding, it should not take up time to teach you to hand express. It would take far more time to set you up on the expresser, which is really quite inappropriate for colostrum anyway - too much of it will stick to the tubing and container.

You had what sounds like pretty poor care

TinkerBellesMum · 10/11/2008 18:31

We weren't told it was to do with Islam, just that some Muslims believe it - it came from a Muslim who didn't believe it when she was talking about her culture's views. There are a lot of things that Muslims believe (actually same is true with Christianity) that has nothing to do with their religion.