Low Supply - Not wanting to give up bf - lots of guilt

[Scampish]

I have BF my DD for 6 months now, and for the past 3 weeks I had a problem with low milk supply due to her teething, a nursing strike and a bad cold. After a lot of determination I finally got it back, which I was thrilled about. However last week I went down with a very bad tummy bug, couldn't eat for a few days and once again I am back in the position of a low milk supply and I can only manage 2 feeds a day.

I feel awful as I know how much effort it took to get it back last time, ie feeding through the night, sleeping with her during the day, and encouraging her using me as a dummy etc

I am exhausted and I am not sure I have it in me to do the 24 hour nursing and I am also worried that I am ancouraging her into a night waking habit as her sleep is getting worse and worse and she gets so distressed at night because she's getting hungry.

I just keep beating myself up that I am letting her down

so dd is 6mo? have you started weaning yet?

i've been exactly where you are but i know this can be a very sensitive issue so i don't want to come barging in with unwanted "advice".

i should have asked as well is dd getting any additional formula or just bf?

Scampish - who has told you that you have a low milk supply? (And what is a nursing strike?)

Milk supply responds to the baby's needs. As long as your dd is latched on correctly, your body will produce the milk that she is asking for. Maybe she is not asking for as much now. Have you started solids too?

Having a tummy upset makes you feel poorly, but your body has enough nutrients stored up to supply milk, even if you don't eat for several days. By sleeping with her and encouraging feeds, you may encourage her to take more, but I suspect that a visit to a breast feeding clinic, or your local la leche group, to look again at your attachment, might help. As they grow older, you may need to adjust your method of latching her on, so that she is in the best position possible to feed.

Best of luck. I am sure there will be other posters with helpful suggestions along soon too.

she is doing blw, so still having full feeds. Have had to supplement otherwise she would not sleep. If I feed her all on my own she just constantly grizzles from hunger, and I feel terrible and my dh worries too

Scampish - sounds as if this is an issue to do with confidence. I am not sure why you think you have a low supply - maybe you have, of course, and it could be to do with the nursing strike and her feeding less often....but the one sure way to create or exacerbate a low milk supply is to only feed twice a day, which is what you are doing!

I would not expect you to have to do a whole load of intensive 'bringing back' at this stage. 6 mths is pretty established breastfeeding. A few days of extra feeding - far more than 2 x a day, of course - and using two, three or four breasts per feed when you can (ie switch nursing) should do it. A night feed or two would prob help, too.

okay, just been there done that words from me (i.e. tiktok's the person to listen to first and foremost).

you sound exhausted, do you have good support at home? is there any extra you could call on? since dd isn't relying totally on your milk that should in theory ease the pressure on you feeding her.

when you say you can only manage 2 feeds are you putting her to boob at other times and she's fighting/fussing cos there's not as much there as she'd like? if she's a little sleepy or has just eaten/had formula is she happier to take a boob? she might not have a full feed then, but at least some milk would be removed, which would gear up your production, and it wouldn't be too stressful for you.

have you tried gobbling fenugreek, you can get it in health shops. you've done an amazing thing, getting to 6 months, if you want to give up now, you have a clear conscience from a job well done. if not, do what the nice lady tiktok says. well done.

i'm really sorry, and not to attention grab, but, i'm actually having the same problem, but i haven't resorted to formula as of yet and my baby is 9 weeks old. and he's hungry all the time. trying to suck on his fists, crying, wimpering. you name it, he does it.

i've tried breast compression, seen a bfc, spoke to the le leche leaque and have been harassing a few breast feeding friends...but nothing is coming out, and my son is losing weight quite fast. he went from a 98th percentile to 48th percentile in 2.5 weeks. I'm not even sure what that means but it sounds pretty bad to me.

i've tried fenugreek and keep him on my breasts all day pretty much. what else can i do?

eandz - sounds really hard for you.

Nothing you say is a definitive picture of not enough milk - all the behaviours you describe can be normal, however the weight picture is unclear. Has he really actually lost weight?

How many times does he feed in 24 hours?

Do you aim to use both breasts at least every time ('switch' nursing is a good way of increasing intake)?

A baby who is actively losing weight may be ill - what has been said by your doc or HV?

tiktok
he was 11lbs 3 weeks ago and is now at around 10lbs. And then she was talking about percentiles and I became really confused.

I feed on demand, which means in the mornings he usually wants a feed every hour to hour and a half and then as the day progresses he likes to go up to 3 hours between feeds, although sometimes more frequently. I don't like to let him cry so I usually start feeding him whenever I notice him rooting or licking his lips.

but for the last 2-3 weeks he's just been soo unsatisfied after each feed that he tries to stay on the breast for hours and hours, and even when i try to squirt a little out, nothing comes. I don't even remember the last time i felt a proper 'let down'.

oh, and no i don't use both breasts at every feed, although i've done so before. I guess I'll spend this afternoon trying that.

Sounds like that'll help a lot eandz. They only need one side for a while and then all of a sudden it's not enough.

FWIW I bf all mine and have always felt I didn't have enough. One is milk allergic so I haven't had the bottle option either. I remember having a terrible stomach upset, and DS1 (5m) had it too. I couldn't eat anything, and neither could he. He would only breastfeed and then throw it all up. I thought he would starve and panicked at the thought of my body trying to make milk on no food - but it did. Well done body, not good-for-nothing after all.

eandz, thanks for the further info.

This is a significant weight loss in just 2.5 weeks and I am confused as to why you seem to have been given no support or advice on this. Did the HV say nothing???

The percentiles can be hard to understand - they mean he used to be heavier than 97 babies out of every 100 and now he is heavier than only 47 babies out of every 100. But in fact, the concerning bit is the sudden weight loss. It can be normal, especially for large babies, to work their way down the centiles over a period of several weeks, without actually losing weight. What happens is they just gain weight a little more slowly and get to a lower percentile that way.

You're doing the right thing in feeding him at the first sign of rooting - and yes, offer both sides at least at every feed.

To be honest, though, I think your issue is beyond what can be addressed on a talkboard or by a bfc alone(I am an NCT bfc).

There is of course the possibility the weight has been recorded inaccurately - kg have been wrongly translated into lbs; scales are inaccurate; plotting on graph is inaccurate; baby was not weighed naked. All these I have seen, with mothers worried unnecessarily by these 'human errors'.

But if your baby has lost 1 pound in under three weeks, and you are confident this tells a true story, then I think you will be helped by speaking in more detail to the HV about what might be going on here. If all the situation is is lack of calories (and nothing else health-wise) then yes, he needs more calories .

Can you try this? First step would be to start expressing to get breastmilk to top him up with, after every feed (I would say). He needs to 'switch nurse' to boost his intake, and your supply, and to feed a lot at night - how does this sound? If you can, hold him close to you day and night so you can respond quickly to any sign he might feed.

But to be honest, it would be important to speak to someone in real life and get a thorough assessment of his health, growth and feeding. None of this means you have to use formula, but on the face of it, I do think you need to explore taking some action to address and explain the weight loss.

I had the same problem as you eandz. It was quite horrendous to find my baby wasn't gaining and crying wasn't to do with anything except hunger. I was advised to feed every two hours and top up after each feed with a small (ie: 2-3 oz) of formula. I also found my position wasn't correct. It took several bfding counsellors to notice this, so check again. It was very simple, his bottom lip was turned in when he latched on. I felt very angry with all the professionals who hadnt noticed this. It hurt me when he fed as well. But nothing helped like talking to someone who had had the same experience of shall I say it bluntly, starving their child. I talked to another mum who had suffered agonies of remorse and completely gone over to formula, and do you know the day after I had heard her story, acknowledged the pain of it all and I introduced top-ups I relaxed and started to produce loads of milk. I also went to bed with baby gave up on all routines, and stopped trying to get anything done or worrying what anyone thought. It also helped to sit around and have coffee with other mums who weren't judgemental. I found in the long run everyone had different issues, allergies, sleep, weaning, work, reflux and I wasn't alone in my feeling that things weren't working out the way they had been meant to. But by 12 weeks my baby was extremely bonny and very contented. I don't think I regret topping him up, I would have felt too guilty otherwise. He didn't have bottles of formula once he was weaned, I put the formula in his food instead But I breastfed him for ten months, so the end he got far more breastfeeding than a lot of other babies. It was a lovely time. When he's back on track you can build up your supply again as long as you commit yourself to true demand feeding. But check check your baby's feeding position and listen to your baby. (By the by My granny aged 96 who bfd 8 children told me that she topped up with a small bottle after many feeds. She was a Truby King era granny, that may explain it) But I really feel for you, I felt so desperate, and no-one seemed to be able to help, or steer a middle course between full bottles and pc bfding only. I still hear people talking about having to give up because of low supply and want to wring some professional necks - misinformation, no support and aeryfairy talk of demand feeding. If your baby's not latched on his demands won't get you anywhere. Also I think feeling stressed about your baby makes it very difficult to make milk flow. Van morrison helped a bit.

I had the same problem as you eandz. It was quite horrendous to find my baby wasn't gaining and crying wasn't to do with anything except hunger. I was advised to feed every two hours and top up after each feed with a small (ie: 2-3 oz) of formula. I also found my position wasn't correct. It took several bfding counsellors to notice this, so check again. It was very simple, his bottom lip was turned in when he latched on. I felt very angry with all the professionals who hadnt noticed this. It hurt me when he fed as well. But nothing helped like talking to someone who had had the same experience of shall I say it bluntly, starving their child. I talked to another mum who had suffered agonies of remorse and completely gone over to formula, and do you know the day after I had heard her story, acknowledged the pain of it all and I introduced top-ups I relaxed and started to produce loads of milk. I also went to bed with baby gave up on all routines, and stopped trying to get anything done or worrying what anyone thought. It also helped to sit around and have coffee with other mums who weren't judgemental. I found in the long run everyone had different issues, allergies, sleep, weaning, work, reflux and I wasn't alone in my feeling that things weren't working out the way they had been meant to. But by 12 weeks my baby was extremely bonny and very contented. I don't think I regret topping him up, I would have felt too guilty otherwise. He didn't have bottles of formula once he was weaned, I put the formula in his food instead But I breastfed him for ten months, so the end he got far more breastfeeding than a lot of other babies. It was a lovely time. When he's back on track you can build up your supply again as long as you commit yourself to true demand feeding. But check check your baby's feeding position and listen to your baby. (By the by My granny aged 96 who bfd 8 children told me that she topped up with a small bottle after many feeds. She was a Truby King era granny, that may explain it) But I really feel for you, I felt so desperate, and no-one seemed to be able to help, or steer a middle course between full bottles and pc bfding only. I still hear people talking about having to give up because of low supply and want to wring some professional necks - misinformation, no support and aeryfairy talk of demand feeding. If your baby's not latched on his demands won't get you anywhere. Also I think feeling stressed about your baby makes it very difficult to make milk flow. Van morrison helped a bit.

swanriver is right - positioning amendment may well improve his intake.

You do need to see someone, eandz, who knows what to look for.

you see, i was expressing 8 0z at a time (3 weeks ago) but over the past three weeks I'm lucky if i can express 4 0z in two days. i'm using the ameda lactaline pump and barely anything commes out. i'm trying to see another bfc this week. anyything else i can do in the meantime? i seem to need a new game plan.

i'm going to use both breasts a couple times a feed, i'll keep taking fenugreek, eat like a crazy woman. and try to relax. i'm buying formula just incase.

No game plan, eandz....can just reiterate to see someone!

Your expressing experience is not really significant, of itself, as many women find their 'yield' tails off. But maybe it does mean something...I don't know. What did they say about his weight loss at the clinic?

just told me that they want to keep a closer eye on him and to see another bfc.

Poor care.

A breastfeeding counsellor cannot normally deal with cases where the baby is actively losing weight. If you were calling me with my bfc's hat on, I'd be referring you back to the HV, supporting you, of course, but certainly not suggesting interventions of 'fixes'.

Really sorry about this eandz....I now wonder if they did not believe the weight loss themselves!

Try the fenugreek in capsule form, it's easier than eating the seeds!

yeah, i've only been using the capsules. i still stink from London all the way back to Texas. my mother actually says she can smell me sometimes.

should i just start on formula?

eandz, even if the HVs are useless and cannot tell you how to resolve this, they presumably know to recognise he is not ill....which is good news as all they are thinking is that he short of a few calories. This is dealt with in the ways we've already discussed and which you are doing now

But I do think you need to see someone who can watch you feed, too.

After a few weeks breastfeeding some of those first techniques go by the board, like having the baby supported on a high cushion so to mttthat you don't pull on the breast as you feed. And latching the baby on properly, if you've been feeding non-stop its difficult to go back to basics, like making sure the baby gets a good mouthful. How you may say do I know if he is? I thought I knew about positioning certainly people kept telling me things like squeeze the breast into shape nose to nipple etc but only one bfg counsellor identified that I wasn't bringing baby to breast at the right angle. He was too low, as he got heavier I couldn't support him on my arm anymore, and yet he wasnt big enough to sit on my lap. She also advised making a v with my thumb and forefinger on the areola squeezing briefly into a compressed shape so that the baby got a larger mouthful when I let go with my fingers. Suddenly I found his lip turned out automatically when I latched him on and the let-down reflex was properly activated when he started to suck. But it took time to get things back on track, time which I felt I didn't have. It was a crisis, and the crisis situation was solved by giving top-ups 4 times a day. 2-3 oz bottles of formula not expressed milk, because I couldn't possibly have made a drop more. Then the baby slept better. He needed sleep and couldn't even feed properly because he was exhausted with unproductive feeding. What do you think tik-tok?