Ok all us BF supporters, we are wasting our time <sigh>

[AnarchyAunt]

Well, so says Clare Byam-Cook....

"Well, I'd end breastfeeding week for a start. You get all these breastfeeding mothers trotted out, but how does that help? It's like having an infertility week and putting up pictures of parents showing off babies. What we need to do is stop all this endless talk of "support" - if I hear that word again in relation to breastfeeding, I'm going to scream - and start looking at ways to show women properly how to latch on.

The simple fact is, most mothers don't understand the practical knack of getting a baby to fix on to a nipple and feed, and what they need is a midwife or health visitor who will show them how to do it. It's not rocket science: what you need to do is shape the breast so it's doughnut-shaped rather than apple-shaped, and when the baby's mouth opens you shove her on and she starts feeding happily away.

The other thing I'd like to see is a bit of honesty: you get these counsellors who bully women into carrying on breastfeeding when they feel their milk supply isn't good enough, and the fact is not all women can do it and there comes a stage when it's right to call it a day. To say every woman is physically capable is to say every human being has perfect eyesight: it just isn't true"

I said on another thread, I have never had a latch problem.
I have however been absolutely exhausted. I needed support then!

Agree, woman is an idiot. Yes, women need help learning to latch. But support is also vital to mormalise bfing and help women feel they are not alone. I found Mumsnet invaluable in supporting me in the normal trials and tribulations in the day to day with bfing, but that support should be there IRL.

DP has suggested writing to this morning about why we feel CBC is an inappropriate guest in support of bfing. I intend to do so, anyone going to join me?

Good idea Char, I'll join you in that. I think the 'advice' she gives on the show (which Fern has been known to say is commonly watched by new mothers whilst feeding on the sofa)is very worrying.

Yes, I will too.

Great stuff, will draft an email tonight. DP has said that he's heard tv people class one complaint as 1000 viewers, so it's worth us doing it if it might change something.

I'm sure I've said this before, but I was TOTALLY unprepared for BF with DD.
I got support at the hospital but once back at home I was on my own. I had badly cracked nipples, got mastitis a few times etc. It might sound naive, but no-one had ever told me these things might happen.

I knew nothing about fast letdown, growth spurts, falling asleep at the breast etc. I had to work it out by myself and try to go beyond the pain and bleeding. Only the fact that DD was literally thriving and was 90% height and weight kept me going.

ONGOING support is essential.

Ummmmm.....

Correct me if I am wrong, but, isn't taking the time to show someone how to effectively latch their baby on to their breast (not just their nipple ) supporting them?

She's a bit bonkers.

I'd like this morning to have someone who isnt charging a bazillion pounds an hour to go on their show and isnt plugging a book/their premium rate services to talk about breastfeeding.

Gah.

I've met CBC - she spoke at one of my antenatal classes. She was fabulous, really seemed committed to BF and gave me every helpful tip or pointer that got me through the early days of bf when it was painful and difficult with cracked nipples etc. Luckily I established bf well within a couple of weeks with both my DDs and never looked back (and I'm sure her practical directions on latching and positions really did help with that), but some in my antenatal group didn't establish feeding so easily and she offered fantastic helpful advice (and support!) and managed to help two of my friends establish and continue feeding. So yes, maybe some of what she says doesn't come across brilliantly, but in practice, in my personal experience, she is very helpful and committed.

I actually appreciated her down to earth practicalities approach.

I've never watched this morning though so don't know what she says on that.

tell you what, let me eat the Doughnut instead while i breastfeed thats a much better idea!

Support!!!!

well if it wasnt for a very long talk with a midwife, with doll involved and a knitted breast, on the ward at 3am plus continuted support here, i would have given up....again!

Like VS My pfb had no problems getting the milk. Latching on was his no.1 priority in life. He was a strong, active baby who hardly slept and doubled his weight at 10 weeks.

I was recovering from a tramatic birth with an undiagnosed pph, but the deamnds of bf would have been a shock even without this.

It was definately support I needed, not a one off manhandling.

And 'getting a baby to fix on to a nipple and feed' -

i don't get it.

mine are not apple shaped, and i don't know how i'd make them doughnut shaped...

anyway, my breast shaped breasts managed to feed dd ok so i won't worry myself over my abnormally non doughnut shaped self.

ruddynorah You have to fill them with jam!

"the fact is not all women can do it and there comes a stage when it's right to call it a day. To say every woman is physically capable is to say every human being has perfect eyesight: it just isn't true"

I have to say I completely agree with this statement.

I didn't produce enough milk for my large and very hungry DS. If I'd had him in the days before formula was invented he would have starved to death.
I never had that "let down" feeling, ever.
I tried for 10 weeks to BF DS. Obviously by then I was also using formula as I couldn't be that cruel to him.

I had support but it doesn't matter how much support you get, it wont magically bring your milk in.

DS is now 3 years old and I have been devastated ever since about my stupid body not working properly.
I am now pregnant again (at last) and am hoping and praying my body doesn't let me down again.

I can, however make my breast "doughnut shaped" Just squeeze it? Seems quite simple to me.

Fruityandnutty.... how did you know you weren't producing enough milk?

Not being facetious here... I know some people simply aren't prepared for the long and frequent feeds which many newborns seem to need. And expressing milk is not necessarily a good indicator of how much you can produce. I never managed to express more than an ounce at a time... yet breastfed all of mine exclusively for 6 months..

FruitynNutty I'm sure you tried very hard to bf, and couldn't. Given that you have been 'devestated' and are keen to try this time I would urge you to visit a bf cafe or support group in your third trimester, and possibly even call one of the helplines in advance.

I'm not saying this to upset you, but to support your confidence in your body and to bf next time, - It is extremely, extremely unlikely that your body let you down. A much more likely scenario is that your 'support' did. If you'd like to explore this to impove your chances next time, take my advice above and/or start a thread explaining what happened last time!

Good luck, and congratulations on your pg!

Because DS was losing weight too quickly. He was also permanently on my breast (or so it seemed) He would get very frustrated and would suck and suck and suck. Had practically dry nappies too until I started FF.
I could squeeze a tiny drop out myself but that was it.
I gave up with expressing as like you scarletlilybug I could only produce an ounce in 2 hours but had heard this was not an indicator of milk production so carried on BF.
I was dead set against FF while pregnant. I agreed BF was the way to go and couldn't understand why anyone would FF. Didn't buy any FF equipment.
I even had visions of having bags and bags of BM in the freezer so DP could also help - how naive!

I'm afraid not all women are lucky enough to be able to produce enough milk. Maybe it would have been ok if my DS was smaller and not as hungry.
I was so jealous of friends who seemed to have gallons of the stuff. I longed to have leaky boobs!

I have PCOS too so my body is not only crap at milk production but also crap at conceiving too

I'm really hopeful that this time around it will be different. I have also since heard that you can take medication to increase milk flow. It's something I will definitely look into.

You girls are obviously very very lucky

Have only read OP. Will read rest of thread, but wanted to post before my utter loathing of CBC's pontificating was diluted by others saying similar things.

If she cared, one iota, about women as much as she cared about CBC promotion, she'd not say such dimwitted things.

(And I did temper that somewhat...!)

She may not put things very well but I don't see what the big problem with CBC really is.

The oft-quoted statistic in pro-breastfeeding literature is that in 99% of women there is no physical reason why they cannot breastfeed. Conversely that means 1 in 100 do have a physical reason (e.g. not enough milk) why they can't, that's actually a hell of a lot of women. I'm glad someone's willing to admit that - whilst BF ought to be encouraged/supported etc. it shouldn't be at the expense of women who can't do it being told that they can they just need the right support.

Of course support is important, but all the support in the world won't help if you can't figure out how to physically do something and no-one's shown you.

It took a lot of experimentation and sore nipples before I got a comfortable way of feeding with my son, and CBC's method sounds like what I eventually came up with after weeks and weeks.

Although, I do agree that BF Awareness Week is misguided in tone sometimes - but not for the reasons CBC thinks.

LWB, you say "I'm glad someone's willing to admit that - whilst BF ought to be encouraged/supported etc. it shouldn't be at the expense of women who can't do it being told that they can they just need the right support."

Someone's willing? Anyone who supports bf knows there is a small percentage of women who can't physically breastfeed and is happy to say it. It's not some sort of admittance to be avoided!

Nothing like 99% of women bf in the UK, so something's going very wrong for a vast number of them. CBC saying "Well, it doesn't matter anyway, stop going ON about it, fgs" isn't helpful.

who is she

FruitynNutty I mean this to be supportive, not critical, but from your post I can't see anything that indicates your body being unable to bf.

BF can be extremely challanging at times, and the difference between many of those that manage to get through these times and don't is partly luck but more often it is a confidence thing. And poor support, or sometimes just lack of can very seriously undermine your confidence.

Leaky boobs and feeling let-down are not not experienced by every sucessful bfer.

'permanently on my breast (or so it seemed) He would get very frustrated and would suck and suck and suck.' Is completely normal behaviour.

dry nappies and weight loss are signs that your baby is not getting enough, but NOT signs that you are not producing enough.

Please take heart in what I am saying, as there is every reason you will be able to bf this time round.

Hunkermunker

I didn't interpret what she was saying as that at all. In fact here's what she says on the GF website:

"I do feel it?s a great pity if mothers who are not even prepared to give breast-feeding a go. Having a baby is a huge responsibility and I think every mother owes it to her baby to give him the best start in life with breast-feeding. But if a mother tries to breast-feed and then gives up because she finds it too painful or difficult, she should not feel guilty or a failure."

As regards BF supporters and that statistic, as I said it is oft-quoted but rarely when an individual is having problems it seems.

I just never see anyone saying "wow, that's a real shame you're having so many problems with your milk supply, since you've tried x,y and z solutions it's worth remembering that 1 in 100 women can't and it's not your fault".

If people are counselled in that way then I stand corrected, as I'm no expert on the issue.

MoonlightMckensie So if I was producing enough mil then why was DS not getting enough? Surely if I was producing enough then he would be getting enough? Or am I being a bit dense here?

I think the fact is. We are all different. We are all made differently. Perhaps not all women have enough milk producing hormone naturally in their bodies.
Just like not all of us can walk, talk, hear or see.
I felt that there wasn't anything else I could have done. Yes I struggled it out for a long time before I realised that actually, for my son's well being I needed to call it a day. I was sure DS must have had at least some of the most important breast milk.

DS is a happy, healthy little boy who is so very rarely ill. I just thank my lucky stars for formula or he may not have been so lucky.

As I said below, nothing wrong with CBC drawing attention to the fact that women need to know how to bf without pain and sufficiently well to allow their babies to grow. And yes, it must be maddening to hear people say 'all that's needed is support' if you are a woman tackling serious issues of supply (whether 'inbuilt' under-supply or 'secondary' under-supply)...even though anyone who knows anything about breastfeeding knows that support is never enough. Technical knowledge and understanding is also vital.

But again, anyone who knows anything about breastfeeding knows there are women who will struggle no matter what help they get, or else they reach the technical, knowledgeable hep to late for it to turn things round.

If people say something different ('all women can breastfeed easily with loads of milk' and 'all that's lacking is support') then they're just showing how little they know, and can safely be ignored