was shocked by the amount of bottle-feeders in hospital

[misdee]

found it quite upsetting at times. my bed was by the empties 'bottle bank', so saw how many people on the ward were bottle feeding. in the 4 days i was there, there were 10 women on the ward in total, and only myself and another lady was breastfeeding. The midwives offered help to everyone, but most decided on bottles.

the reason i found it upsetting was because i didnt want dd3 to have formula but that choice was basically taken away from me whilst she was SCBU and was given formula by tube.

Eulalia
Read my comments again. I really dont think you realise what you have said. Breasfed babies never get as ill as bottlefed ones? I stand my my view. Tosh

Bf babies get just the same illnesses as bottle fed!! My mum has 4 children. She bottle fed my sister and I and she bf my brothers until they were 18mths old. We've all had the same childhood illnesses. In fact my poor little brother (youngest one, 13) seems to always have some sort of bug.

Bf'ing can help immunity in the first few mths before the babies immune system kicks in. In fact I think that immunity to diseases such as MMR stay in bf babies system for up to a year. But after that the child develops their own defence.

So after the 1st year it's not that different! Plus it doesn't stop colds etc which humans will NEVER build an immunity to as the retrivirus mutates so often (some every 9hrs).

"It is quite normal for a logical individual to get irritated when they read rubbish"

well ain't that the truth!

"what we all want are CHOICES"

also true - I choose to go along with prunegirl, if that's alright with you?

to be honest and in my humble opinion - your rantings on here will only serve to put mothers, having trouble coming to a decision over whether to breastfeed or not - well and truly off!

Sorry joolstoo - was rushing off then and I realise that could be misread - I realise that there are many contributing factors to adult health ... just pointing out that health benefits found in infancy (whether it be b/feeding, good nutrition etc) will obviously be felt later in life as we can't separate children and adults.

Here is just one article from the many hundreds ....

BMJ. 1990 Jan 6;300(6716):11-6.
Protective effect of breast feeding against infection.

Howie PW, Forsyth JS, Ogston SA, Clark A, Florey CD.

Ninewells Hospital and Medical School, Dundee.

OBJECTIVETo assess the relations between breast feeding and infant illness in the first two years of life with particular reference to gastrointestinal disease. DESIGNProspective observational study of mothers and babies followed up for 24 months after birth. SETTINGCommunity setting in Dundee. PATIENTS750 pairs of mothers and infants, 76 of whom were excluded because the babies were preterm (less than 38 weeks), low birth weight (less than 2500 g), or treated in special care for more than 48 hours. Of the remaining cohort of 674, 618 were followed up for two years. INTERVENTIONSDetailed observations of infant feeding and illness were made at two weeks, and one, two, three, four, five, six, nine, 12, 15, 18, 21, and 24 months by health visitors. MAIN OUTCOME MEASUREThe prevalence of gastrointestinal disease in infants during follow up. RESULTSAfter confounding variables were corrected for babies who were breast fed for 13 weeks or more (227) had significantly less gastrointestinal illness than those who were bottle fed from birth (267) at ages 0-13 weeks (p less than 0.01; 95% confidence interval for reduction in incidence 6.6% to 16.8%), 14-26 weeks (p less than 0.01), 27-39 weeks (p less than 0.05), and 40-52 weeks (p less than 0.05). This reduction in illness was found whether or not supplements were introduced before 13 weeks, was maintained beyond the period of breast feeding itself, and was accompanied by a reduction in the rate of hospital admission. By contrast, babies who were breast fed for less than 13 weeks (180) had rates of gastrointestinal illness similar to those observed in bottle fed babies. Smaller reductions in the rates of respiratory illness were observed at ages 0-13 and 40-52 weeks (p less than 0.05) in babies who were breast fed for more than 13 weeks. There was no consistent protective effect of breast feeding against ear, eye, mouth, or skin infections, infantile colic, eczema, or nappy rash. CONCLUSIONBreast feeding during the first 13 weeks of life confers protection against gastrointestinal illness that persists beyond the period of breast feeding itself.

Breastfed babies do get ill however, breastmilk helps them get better. Receptors in the breast identify illnesses that babies have and produce specific antibodies to fight the infection. I have a paper on it but I am not sure of I will find it online.

My DS2 nearly died of pneumococcal meningitis when he was 6 months old. The consultant paediatrician caring for him said that breastfeeding probably saved his life. Good enough for me

thanks Eulalia for clarifying.

Not sure if you are deliberately misinterpreting my comments or what but I give up. Lets hope those new mums trying make their minds up don't bother looking on here.

Would you like to tell Prof Howie and his team that he is talking "tosh" ?

Did you not read my post about this, Wanda? Showing that formula fed babies are at a higher risk of hospitalisation after g/e than breastfed babies?

Of course no one is saying that breastfed babies don't ever become as sick as formula fed ones. It's in the nature of health and health research that no one can predict individual outcomes. I mean, to take a crystal clear example, some smokers live to a ripe old age, and some non-smokers die of lung cancer. No one suggests on that basis that it makes no difference to your health if you smoke.

JoolsToo - it was Gobbledigook who said that 'poor hygiene' was the prime cause of g/e in infants. I equate 'poor hygiene' with being dirtier than someone else. I can't understand why you think that's sensationalist.

But I've answered your comment and provided evidence of it as you asked whereas all you've kept saying is "tosh", "tosh" several times which is hardly a countering argument is it?

If he says that bottlefed babies will always be sicker than breasfed then yes. However I think that is your mistaken interpretation.

And toothache - sorry but it takes much longer than a few months for a babies immunity to "kick in" as you state. The immune system doesn't just suddenly appear fully functioning at a few months old, it takes years to develop - around 7 years. One precise reason why women carry on breasfeeding for years, particularly in 3rd world countries.

I think breastfeeding may get more converts if more was made of how wonderful it is to do it - what a pleasant experience it is - instead of shoving facts and figures down everyone's throats and horrifying stories of how ill your baby will get if you don't - scaremongering.

Its all quite sad really. There are far more worse things a parent can do its child than to choose bottle over breast - let's get a grip on reality.

The good old Beatles had it right 'All you need is love'

Wanda, the word "always" in there is wrong. No-one said always. The analogy of the smoker who lives till 90 is a good one.

sigh<

This has turned into another thread telling Mums who bottle feed their children that they are doing a bad thing. It's awful.... totally awful. I am so SO SOSOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO sick of this on MN.

That thread about being judgemental of other parents?? Surprised it isn't busier.

Thanks Mears for a nice simple summary of the facts.

For every article saying one thing....there will be another saying something different.

Makes me sad and upset that this keeps repeating itself on MN. And no matter what anyone says bottlefeeding mothers DO feel the need to defend against some posts that are clearly meant in judgement.

Eg. I know that organic food is better for all of us in the long run..... but I don't buy it. Does that make me a bad parent??

EVERYONE gets the message and knows that breastmilk is ideal for baby when everything goes to plan. That doesn't mean bottled milk is BAD for babies! Just not perfect. So what? Who is???

JT, I can't agree - the plain fact is, in the first few weeks for some unfortunate mothers (myself included) bf wasn't wonderful, it was hell. If someone had told me how wonderful it was, I'd probably have thrown the baby at them!

But because I knew it was going to be hell, it didn't put me off - if I hadn't known, I'd probably have given up.

and she was right

its all in the language tiktok and I know you are intelligent enough to realise that, please don't patronise me.

Tiktok yes I did read your post. The biggest factor in the cause of gastroeneteritis is poor hand washing and this may affect a greater number of bottle fed babies for obvious reasons. However that is one illness and this thread started talking about general childhood illnesses and the extent to which a bottle or breast fed child will suffer from them. For the LAST time I am not challenging the benefits of breast over bottle. However I just think its daft to say, as has been said on this thread, that breast fed babies may get ill but will never be as ill as bottle fed ones. THAT simply is not true.

Caligula - fair enough - but wouldn't it be better to say - 'it was really difficult to start with and I won't pretend that I nearly gave up, but eventually things improved and it was the most wonderful thing I have done.

that's far better than

WHO WHAT & WHERE say this this and this and its PROVED if you don't this this and this will happen oh and why won't you LISTEN?

Toothache - couldn't agree more

Eulalia - I wasn't implying it jsut started working perfectly after a few months!! I studied biology at university and loved my immunology part of my degree.... I think I know a bit about what I'm talking about. The immunity built up by paretns breastfeeding starts to dwindle after about a year I said. And at a few weeks old babies have an immune system capable of fighting illnesses! That's a fact. My ds got a cold at 11wks old..... surprise surprise he got over it!! THerefore must have had an immune response.

Good GOD why do you women feel the need to do this? DOes it make you feel more adequate?? Thats the only reason why I feel anyone would want to put people down like this. It's awful.

wanda - agree with your posts also

I disagree too JT. It isn't always wonderful and I think it is really important that new mums are prepared for that. I think a lot give up thinking they can't do it because it's a struggle and they don't think it's supposed to be.
Also, what I do think is utter tosh is when people say that bf help mum and baby bond better. If I was a bottle-feeder, I would get upset by that actually. One of my friends cannot bf because she is on medication. She had to accept that her baby woudln't get the health benefits from bf, but what she found hardest during her pregnancy was thinking she wouldn't get this special bond with her baby. As we can see from this thread I think, bf can be both wonderful and a real struggle who can make you run screaming from your baby at times.