2 quations from a frustrated mummy who doesn't want to give up but it getting worn down and worn out:(

[alittlebitshy]

my ds is a month old toay and had be exclusively bf! [proud mummy cos dd was mix fed from 2 weeks ish].

However I am still v v sore (tears rolling dowm face sometimes) on one side and just feeling overwhelmed. we're vageuyl considering one formula feed before bed (ha not that we can predict when before bed is [desperate, tired emoticon] to give me and my boobs a rest and to see if it settles him for a bit. ARGH. I know I know, all the wrong reasons

2 quick questions:

HOw long is the right length (i know i know, how long is a piece of string?) for a feed. Ds will stay on for ever if i let him - so generally if he's still on after 40-45 mins i've been taking him off (though not if clearly actively sucking/swallowing at that point - that would be mean ) am i doing a bad thing????

What is it "meant" to fele like for me when he is feedng? On one side it's v v ouhc- on the other it is less so but i'm not sure it's totally comfortable..

I know these are really subjective questions but..... am going insane with the sore side and the feed feed feed of my day.

Alittlebitshy, this is probably no help but i am in exactly the same position as you with my 5 week old dd. It is really tough, morose is a very good way of describing how i feel right now.Have tried everything but my lest side is still a quite sore. I think the only solution is time - hang on in there, Just wanted you to know that you are not alone

he deffo has a short tongue but she thinks not tongue tie though she hasn't had a root around as lasdt time she came she had garlicy fingers and didn't have gloves with her.

am v v close to going to mixed feeding. sore side super sore and other side getting wrecked after being ok for weeks

feeling totally rubbish and a failure

You are not rubbish and definitely not a failure - in fact it is a great achievement to get this far with such sore nips. You must do what is right for you, but remember mixed feeding is not the end of the world and you could always do it for a couple of days just to give yourself a break.

ALBS - Well done on getting this far!!!! (DS will be one month old next week)

DS's gain weight was very slow and then it just went static for a while. Went to b/f clinic and they were fantastic and problem had been with the latch. Over the last couple of days DS has been cluster feeding to the point where i've been in tears, haven't been able to do anything really which can be really frustrating when you have 2 toddlers to look after as well - if i remember correctly you also have DD to think about too - it's not easy.
Also fell asleep while sat upright feeding him last night and had to wake a very tired DH who'd only just come back from a few days away as i was shattered to the point that i was worried i'd drop him. It really isn't easy is it....but yay for percevering this long..... I have introduced 2 top up feeds to get some sleep but don't intend to make a habit of it...i just couldn't go on.

Really good advice on this thread. Will see how you are agian later x

hope msg makes ssense, shattered and must make most of baby's sleep time

Keep going, you've done the hard bit.

With both my dds, it hurt like hell, sore bleeding nipples until 5 weeks, to the day both times.

Congrats and well done. I used to tell myself (when I thought I couldn't bear another feed) - each feed is one feed closer to painles BFing. And it was.

Good luck.

I found it very difficult getting the latch right for the first few weeks as DD's mouth was so small and it was very painful for me. Now her mouth is bigger she latches on fine so it is probably worth hanging on for a bit to see if that happens (agree see a BF counsellor too to see if they can see a problem). DD is nearly 4 months now and the BF is wonderful as she looks up and smiles mid-feed so am so glad I stuck it out. Good luck whatever you decide.

oh you sound like i was!!! it took ages to get things so they wern't painful.

nipple shileds are a brillaint idea. they just give you a bit of space between the nipple and the sucky little mouth!

lanisoh is fab too.as is a big cabbage leaf in your bra.

i too found it much harder in my non dominant side and that nipple was in rags. what i found hlped-really helped-was changing my position for that side to a rugby ball hold. i had him propped on a load of cushions under my arm and 9it was much easier.

lastly-go and buy a dummy. the avent ones are fab.

if it wasn't for a dummy -my sons would have sucked 24 hours a day.

i had a hv who said [after i sat weeping about him being latched on for 3 hours at a time] to take him off after 30-40 mins and give him his dummy. if it's just sucking he wants he will settle and it worked beautifully for us.

alittlebitshy, do get her to check out the tongue tie a bit further, it often can't be diagnosed without a good feel.

other signs to look for are:
when he cries can his tongue reach the roof of his mouth?
does his tongue sort of curl backwards a bit when he cries?
is there a little dent in the middle, making it look heartshaped?
when he is just at "rest" so to speak, if you look at his tongue is it pointed at the tip, or flat across?

all of these can be signs of tongue tie, though not all babies with tongue tie will have all symptoms iyswim?

ds2's was diagnosed and snipped by a lactation consultant at the hospital, it took a few seconds and he didn't even wake up and feeding immediately improved

I'll ask her to bring gloves when she comes later - if she has any at home i guess to have a root around.

His tongue is def short - it's quite flat - not got the heartshaped bit - i checked that pretty soon . Next time he cries i'll see if it reaches the top of his mouth - it deffo flaps like a flappy thing but i'm not sure how far up it goes....

We did 4 feeds of expresed milk last night. Gave me a rest and calmed me down a bit. I expressed while dh was giving the feeds (middle of the night expresisng is VERY fruitful ). Ds was very pleased to get back on the boob bless him, today - but my sore side is still ouchy. We're going to give him some formula tonight, so I get another slot off - we think we'll end up giving somenights formula and some nights expressed, unless my boobs get magically better. If I had to keep on just putting him on me i think i'd be giving in tomorrow

well if that's what keeps you going then that's what keeps you going!
you do what works for you as a family!

it's incredibly hard it really is. it's the one bit of babyhood i would never like to do again!

argh - i feel like everyone will judge me

who is everyone?

anyone who loves you and cares for you will want you to do whatever works best for you and your baby. anybody elses opinion is irrelevant.

i HAD to give my baby some formula when i was first breastfeeding because my nipples were bleeding so much he was just getting too much blood.[yuck]

i expressed and binned the bloodstained stuff and he had a bit of fpormula and when my nipples had recovered he carried on breastfeeding. i eneded up feding him for 12 months!

I'm intending to express when we give the formula at least for a while, so that if it does get better pain wise etc I can decide to bf those feeds if possible.

By this stage my dd was on 3 bottles plus still quite lot of bfs a day... i clearly do BIG and HUNGRY and very sucky babies. Or else I am a wimp. I am coping betetr than I did with dd and have been a lot more sane and determined but I don't want to get so low that I can't function - all because of bfing.

trust me-get a dummy. little miracles they are!

Sorry,just skimmimg thread but have youj tried a nipple shield?
Really helps take pressure off sore nipples.

I had this problem and it was awful - I did get through it and it was worth it. You are doing so well!

Things that helped me were jelonet and lansinoh or whatever it is called. After a feed I layered the cream and then jelonet on and this helped my cracks to heal. I have some jelonet left if you want it I will send it to you. I also have those silver things - they didn't work for me but if you want to give them a go I will send them too.

The other thing I did was to express from my worst side and only feed off it once a day. I did this for about a week. My HV was not to pleased with this approach but it gave them a chance to heal and that one feed a day wasn't too bad.

I also used a dummy when I knew DS was just comfort sucking. He doesn't use it now - I got rid of it once I was better.

I also took it one feed at a time and gave myself small goals like just getting to the end of another week.

It took me three months to really get to grips with feeding but I did get there and it was totally worth it.

moondog I have some nipple shields at the ready cos i used then with dd, but I am reluctant cos my experience with her weas that i never got the courage to take them off again...

stefka Would you really send me that stuff???? Thank you so much - mumsnet is brilliant!!! I have an email: [email protected]

re dummies. we got some a couple of weeks ago but this ds of mine rerally knows his own mind and won't take it predictably. He seems to take it if very upset and clearly not hungry, or sometimes after feeds at night but it's not easy to tell if he's going to take it . I can see it soothes his need for sucking when he does deign to take it though

I sent you an email

The jelonet if it is helpful to you then ask for a prescription as I was able to get some of it like that. Then I had to pay for it myself as they didn't want to spend the money on it as it's expensive for them which was annoying!!

Those silver things were not the cheapest of things either so it would be nice if someone got some use out of them as they didn't work for me. I had thrush too though so that is maybe why.

alittlebit-probably teaching my grandmother to suck eggs but when you put the dummy in his mouth, hold it there and tap the round bit.for some reason it makes them take it!

alittlebit... my dd was a confort sucker and refused the dummy for a long time but somewhere between 4 and 8 weeks she started to take it so it's definitely worth trying again.

you do need to be careful not to give the dummy unless ds has just fed but if a feed is going on and on give the dummy and see will be be happy just sucking. if he's still hungry he's get cross and spit it out and you'll need to feed a bit more and try again.

alittlebitshy - have only had the chance to skim read, but you sound so like me at that stage that I had to post.

My ds is now 5 mo and still bf which is bl*%dy miraculous. To be honest it didn't get to the 'feeling comfortable and no pain' point until 12 weeks, and like you I was so close to giving up many times because I couldn't stand the pain (and my DH couldn't stand watching me feeding in tears). I had plenty of BFC's checking my latch etc and noone could find anything wrong, so I just put it down to overly sensitive nipples/skin. I know alot of people swear by using lansinoh, but the nipple cracks I had didn't heal up until I stopped using it and instead rubbed breastmilk over them after every feed and let them air dry - I think they just eventually hardened, and now LO can bend round to watch the tv and it still doesn't hurt

When it was really bad I did use a nipple shield just for four feeds, and it was enough to give my nipples a break and heal a little, so don't rule them out...

Best of luck, noone ever really tells you how painful, emotional and frustrating BFing can be but it will eventually feel better