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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Original poster

I taught a bf class today of 12 lovely clever smart people and NOT ONE of them knew what formula was made of

176 replies

harpsichordcarrier · 13/07/2008 20:31

not single one of them knew that formula is made from cows milk.
in fact they looked very surprised.
and in about four weeks time about half of them will probably give some to their babies.
weird, isn't it?

OP posts:
pinkspottywellies · 14/07/2008 20:35

I know that the processing is a good thing and I'm grateful that I live in a society that has an easy alternative to breastfeeding - I was formula fed. For me I appreciate formula as an alternative if I can't breastfeed for any reason, whether that reason may be physical or emotional.

I just wonder if people would think twice about swapping to formula for purely social reasons, like the 2 reasons I mentioned. People seem to think that formula is a natural progression from breastfeeding. Maybe they would carry on bf for longer, before weaning thier children onto pure, organic food when the time comes.

fruitful · 14/07/2008 20:39

Tiktok. Yes I know. I don't really get your point?

What I'm saying is that all this "formula is disgusting" ranting on MN is not very sensible. Its not disgusting, just because its processed. Cow's milk would not be better even though it is a "fresh real food". Formula is better for feeding babies than unprocessed cow's milk.

Actually I'm assuming that feeding a newborn on cow's milk would be a bad thing, going from the fact that every baby book/website/medical bod says "do not feed your baby cow's milk as a main drink until 12 months". I'm assuming there is a reason for that!

tiktok · 14/07/2008 21:04

I'm actually agreeing, fruitful, as the processing is necessary to make the product viable...and that women have 'processed' cows milk themselves.

I think people who say formula is somehow not suitable because of it being processed are missing the point. It has to be processed!

But I am also saying that there is not a huge difference between 'home processing' and manufactured processing.

No, I don't think it would be better for non-breastfed babies to have cows milk as a main drink - just to make that clear!

TinkerBellesMum · 14/07/2008 21:07

A lot of the milk at the hospital came/comes from the NNU, mum's who had a natural excess or their baby was so little they had more than baby needed.

Tink was on Premium, which is just standard OTC formula, not a preterm blend and I think most of the babies were on something similar. Most of the babies I knew though were over 30 weeks (we called them by their gestational age, so that's not to say they were born that late) and there is a difference in how they're seen.

fruitful · 14/07/2008 21:33

TinksMum - I guess it depends on the hospital. I sat and discussed this at great and (no doubt to them, tedious) length with the NICU staff. I was on the antenatal ward for a couple of months so had plenty of time to obsess research it. Turned out that I needn't have bothered cos ds2 didn't start on milk for a while so I was expressing by the time he needed it anyway.

Madlentileater · 14/07/2008 22:00

I've just asked DD (16yrs) what she thinks formula is made of. (we are what some would consider militant bfers in this family- by conviction, I mean, not currently)
she looked completely stumped and said 'I've no idea'....so I said, come on, guess, what do you think, and her guess was...cows milk with er...some other stuff...like ....er carbohydrate to bulk it out....and additives and stuff. Her main point being why would you replace some mammals milk with some other mammals milk (I'm so proud)...
anyway, to go back to the OP, I wonder if there was something other than simple ignorance, eg that people thought 'cows milk perhaps? or is that too obvious??...maybe I won't say, don't want to look stupid etc etc'
I do aggree that most people would be shocked to discover what F is made of, but find it hard to think that if you pressed them a little they wouldn't come up with cow's milk. Would be interesting on a future occassion to let them select from a list of possibilities, perhaps.

Madlentileater · 14/07/2008 22:02

I've just remembered that in my copy of 'Baby and Child' Penelope Leach told you how, in a real emergency, to home-process 'doorstep milk' to feed to a baby. You had to water it down, boil it and add sugar IIRC.

nooka · 15/07/2008 01:13

Yes I did wonder if people felt they couldn't say the "bleeding obvious" too. I've certainly experienced this in other group contexts.

kiskidee · 15/07/2008 05:58

Fruitful, I am quite interested in your claim further down (Mon 14-Jul-08 19:36:03) that formula is better for preterm babies than the breastmilk of a mum of a term baby who is donating.

can you share more info on that?

Egg · 15/07/2008 06:57

Only read the first few posts and don't often bother to get into the breast vs formula debate, but the way formula has been described as like giving your older children chicken nuggets, and how horrendous it is to even think of giving your babies this hideous concoction of artifial shite is really a bit much. I had a 22 month old DS when I had my DTs. I did try to bf for a few days but it did not come easily, and they have been on formula (now 6 months).

TBH I am pretty sure I would have suffered PND if I had not been able to get other people to help feed the babies as it has been a struggle anyway, and being able to let DH / doula / family and friends help out has saved my sanity. It meant I could go to bed at 8pm and leave DH to do 10pm feed, as I would be doing possibly 8 feeds in night at first.

I did bf DS1 despite it being bloody hard work, and I cried and cried through the pain and cracked nipples and hole in one nipple where it had cracked so much as so many people make you feel so bad for not bf-ing. Please give it a rest. We know breast milk is best ok?

Timefortea2 · 15/07/2008 07:48

What an off-colour thread this is!

It's bringing back all sorts of memories from my antenatal classes at the hands of a teacher who went out of her way to belittle and contradict any information or question we volunteered.

If she had have asked us what formula was made of I'd put money on knowing speaking up because she fostered such an environment of fear that in the end no-one spoke much at all.

I'm not saying Harpsi is anything like my antenatal teacher (I'm sure she's lovely) and she's as much as admitted she's made an error of judgement by posting this under her name. I'm shocked by everyone else though who thinks it's absolutely ok to be discussing these kind of details on the www when it's quite possible to identify the OP.

First-time parenthood is difficult enough without established parents gossiping about how little you know. If I'd have read this thread while I was having my antenatal classes, even though it wasn't about my class I would have found it pretty upsetting.

zippitippitoes · 15/07/2008 08:24

peopel also used evaporated tinned milk i think it certainly had the instructions on the tins on "ideal" milk

i think there probably is something in the theory of cows milk obviously but maybe thats the wron answer then as it is so obvious

i mean in superficial appearance formul looks like marvel or any other dried milk so youd have to be pretty trhick not to make that assumption so a group of not thick people are trying not to appear dozy

tho prior to having kids a lot of people wont ever have actually seen it

FioFio · 15/07/2008 08:28

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FioFio · 15/07/2008 08:28

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zippitippitoes · 15/07/2008 08:30

think its denatured fio

like the molecules are rearranged toi get rid of the lactose or something

and various added value bits

Pruners · 15/07/2008 08:33

Message withdrawn

zippitippitoes · 15/07/2008 08:33

perfsonally i dont think it helps tro make formula into some kind of scary idea

it isnt really at all

shrinkingsagpuss · 15/07/2008 08:40

I'm intrigued that people think taht lack of knwledge of ingredients = being hoodwinked by the ff manufacterers!!

Can we all honestly list all of the ingrediants in everything we feed our children? or everything we eat ourselves? I'm sure the response will be, well I know whats in B/m - Breast milk and nothign else.

If this group of parents to be had never had cause to look at a tin of FF, then they would have no reason to be "hoodwinked" by the milk companies. in terms of the fact that it is made of cows milk, well, ok, maybe they should know that, but I'm not sure I knew tat until I ooked at a tin- -I thought it was chemically derived to be as similar to B/m as possible. I don't believe I have been hoodwinked, or misled by f/f companies, because I try and pay them as little attention as possible, its just an idea that I thought of all by myself (gosh).

zippitippitoes · 15/07/2008 08:49

my bother couldnt drink cows milk when he was born in early 1950s australia and he was fed on bananas mixed with water

tiktok · 15/07/2008 09:34

shrinking, what would your theory be on the fact that manufacturers do not indicate in their packaging or promotion that formula is based on cows milk? As if they wanted to hide it?

Marketing does have an effect on people's knowledge.

For some reason, manufacturers do not want to draw attention to the cows milk in formula. Any idea why?

shrinkingsagpuss · 15/07/2008 09:36

I'll have to go and check - but I'm pretty sure my FF tin indicates that the milk proteins are cow's milk based..... hang on.....

tiktok · 15/07/2008 09:38

It will be there in the list of ingredients - of course it will - but in terms of the packaging and promotion, I meant.

ilovemydog · 15/07/2008 09:38

nice dig, Pruners

tiktok · 15/07/2008 09:38

See my post of yesterday, at 14.34.

shrinkingsagpuss · 15/07/2008 09:39

ok. it doesn't. fair enough tiktok. It does say there is milk in the stuff though... and I think most people would expect that to be cow's milk.