Nipple shields, tell me they're OK?

[bakedpotato]

DS was born 5 days ago. I always struggled with breastfeeding DD 3 yrs ago, i never got the famous endorphin high, but i kept going through guilt etc (mixed from 3/4 mths, 2 breastfeeds maintained till 8 mths) and, as a result, had a rather miserable experience of early motherhood. I'd really like to enjoy the experience this time and I do think DS is a better feeder, but i'm struggling again with the discomfort, and this time i'm clear that i'm not going be a martyr to it and make my life and that of DH and poor DD grislier than it has to be.

Various midwives have told me the positioning is fine, but whatever, there is a problem with pain, esp when latching on. My main MW says i have signs of nipple trauma, tiny colourless blisters on the old nips, but seems to think the thing is just to persist regardless. She is very pro breastfeeding, which is great, but when i mentioned nipple shields to help me through this rough patch she said they inhibited milk production, and basically implied using them would be a mistake.

well, DS is a hungry chap, i'm struggling to keep up with him as it is, and i have to say that i did buy some and started using them yesterday and it's fantastic: the pain goes, and i can feel my uterus contracting gently which i think (?) is linked to let-down (it feels great btw), and he is soused in milk, esp by day. The last 2 nights have been a bit fraught, i guess my supply has got to catch up with his appetite, but i'm sure i'm feeding him for longer and in a better state of mind than if i wasn't using them, so it has to be good, right? or am i making a terrible mistake?

I have been trying to use them only for alternate feeds, but it's so much more pleasant with them... do i have to give them up?

mears, lord knows what he'll be like tomorrow (day 6) but at the moment whenever he scents milk he boils over in a second... goes from sleepy/mellow to Mr Manic in a fraction of a second. i'm not waiting till he's desperate, hand on heart.

I had a boy like that bakedpotato so I believe you

Congratulations BakedPotato!!! I had cracked nips, pain, etc and was recommended Jelonet or Jelnet (can't remember). It is a guaze which was developed for burns to encourage healing and is sterile. You can buy it in a 10cm square and cut 2 squares the size of a large postage stamp and put on each nipple after each feed. I found applying this really helped heal the cracks which are soooo painful.
Which make of nipple shields are you using. I found the ones with DD (Avent) were large in comparison to the ones I bought for DS (Boots) a year later. Wondering which are better now.

dear bakedpotato, thinking of you and Mr Manic! Sounds like you're doing really well. Hope you have a manic-free day

oh no we've gone backwards. DS has not stopped feeding since about 3.30am this morning. he has barely slept: just a 30 mins here, 45 mins there, and a general dreamy doziness when on the breast. I'm doing mammoth feeds: not less than 40 mins each side for eg.
i thought a newborn should get sleepy after about 90 mins awake time, but if we put him down when a) he's had a big feed and b) due for a nap or even fast asleep he just wakes and yells within 15 mins or so, and will shout, on and off, for about an hour (the crying isn't continuous or even frantic) until i feed him again. but instead of filling his boots he's snacking, and i'm not getting a break.
i'm so worried this is all because of the bloody shields diminishing my supply, and since they're the only reason i'm still breastfeeding him i can't see a way out. i've been trying to feed without them, esp since this feeding frenzy started, to boost supply, but it still hurts. i reckon i need to rest the nipples entirely, maybe for 24 hrs, but if i use the shields for that long, will the milk just pack up altogether? no way i could be organised enough to express for 24 hrs.
MW came this AM and saw the latch, agreed it's all to do with the gape, we worked on it a bit, but she said he has got quite a small mouth and isn't taking the nipple far back in enough. also she said my nipples are still showing signs of trauma. Even with corrected latch they're new-lipstick-shaped (ie flat at the end).
feeling knackered and hopeless. this is so hard. i need some rest in order to hold things together.
(Also DD, who is wrestling with all this she's really missing me, i can see her struggling gamely with the new situation and it makes me want to weep has been sent home from nusery school with mystery rash. FGS. can it get any worse.)

Sweetheart.

Sounds hell. HELL. All I can say is that DD1, in particular, snacked and snacked and bloody SNACKED her way through my actually abundant supply. It isn't just the shields, please don't feel that it's you.

Poor you and poor little dd
xxxxxxxxx

bakedpotato, sometimes they just get into a funny state, where they're too tired to feed properly and so they don't go to sleep. I know DS2 used to do that in the early days. We'd often take him for a walk, in the pram or sling, or out for a drive, just to let him get 45 minutes of proper sleep and reset him. (Or can you try napping with him? Or letting him nap on you? Often babies mind being put down when they're asleep.)

Do you have help? Can someone take DD or DS away for a bit?

I wouldn't be absolutely convinced the problem is the shields or anything related to them. Being tired and hungry can put them into a bit of a loop that they have a hard time breaking out of. It's certainly happened with both my kids, both with and without shields.

Oh, me too! I had tons of milk but ds always snacked and slept, snacked and slept ....repeat until bored silly...
I even went to a breastfeeding clinic and they said strip him off, use a wet flannel etc, none of which worked...it was just him at that age. You don't have to let him use you as a dummy though...you could even (hush!) use a REAL dummy, which might actually be a lifesaver for you and give you some time with dd - also beg or borrow a swing which might also let you put him down for a sleep. Have you tried brushing his cheek so he turns and opens his mouth? As I said, this did work for me sometimes. Also relatch and relatch if it hurts - do not feed if the latch isn't right as it will just cause more damage and cement his bad habit. It's hideous to do, but better than getting more pain and trauma. Good luck. I really, really feel for you. It all sounds really awful. Forgive me if you've already said this, but have you tried expressing and giving him (or better still getting someone else to give him) ebm to give yourself a break?

I remember both mine getting the latch slightly wrong - just slightly - and it makes my toes curl in horror.

It's like acupuncture - the latch may hurt, but you know where it should be hurting.

I'd opt for a dummy too. And gin for you, obviously.
xxxxxx

Oooh yes, gin. was fantasising about a big G&T only last night... mmmm.....giiiin....

he is zonked in buggy in hall. DH took control (we'd i mean i'd had a massive shouty thing at lunchtime which was very unfair of me) and sent me to bed and took him out.
re co-sleeping/rocking chairs... i have a real horror of getting DS into bad sleep habits. sleep is everything to me. i believe (and i know lots of you will disagree with me and probably start to hate me ) that all this dreamy constant feeding has had a knock-on effect, and now he expects to go to sleep feeding, which is why he's waking up and protesting so soon after being put down.
i know what we need to do, it's simple (ha ha), we need to get back to big feeds/feeling content/going to sleep happily on own which was happening until yesterday evening. i just can't see how to get there, but a big afternoon sleep in fresh air is a good start. hopefullly he'll have massive appetite for feed in 15 mins or so.
thanks to whoever said this isn't related to the shields. i have to stick with them for the time being.

Hey, step back for a moment - he's only a few days old. Don't worry too much about having set up bad habits already; by all means avoid the things that'll drive you mad (like co-sleeping - I'm with you on that, actually) but don't worry unduly.

ah but motherinferior, breastfeeding always turns me loopy.

aloha, aren't you due really soon? i guzzled G&Ts in my last week, partly because various MNers (MI was instrumental in this, naturally) kept making tantalising references to bombay sapphire.
quite weak ones, and i left out the lemon because of heartburn, but still heavenly.

Does dd being ill mean you didn't get to the BFC ? No disrespect to your MW but she doesn't seem very constructive in her advice. btw mine were often lipstick shaped after a feed with boih kids, always assumed it was to do with their tongue action. How is his weight going ?

Agree with MI that he is so little that it is too early to fret about bad habits - just review it on a day to day, week to week basis. But I 'm with you on the sleep.

BP I am sure from everythinng you have said it is not the shields that are causing the problems. Like you BF was agony for me, I wish I'd checked things on MN, I never thought about the latch etc. Any way I used shileds sucessfully most feeds for a few days until I could feed without crying. I was crying before I even started feeding as I knew it would hurt. I guess I used them on and off for about 2 - 3 weeks in total.

Please don't stress yourself, I would be tempted to do what Aloha suggested if he just seems to like sucking. This means you can try to extend the gaps between feeds by 15 mins a time.

REMEMEBER IT IS JUST A STAGE IN A COUPLE OF WEEKS THERE WILL BE ANOTHER THING (and in 18 more years this time will be remembered fondly!!)

bp - this bit is truly awful isn't it - well done for persevering, it will get better, and frankly you do whatever it takes. I had terrible pain when feeding, wept over the baby, even told dp whilst weeping in the middle of the night that I was beginning to 'hate the baby'. I didn't really of course, but it just feels so desperate to be in so much pain, I was beside myself.

Alternating shields and no shields sounds good, and who cares if the baby needs feeding to sleep at this stage.

And whilst I'm at it - thanks to mears for those brilliant links. The 'opening mouth' problem was exactly the issue with my dd, so I've had a good look at those sites in readiness for baby no 2 (due in one month!).

PS also with you on the sleep thing. I went away for a week with dd2 when she was about 9 weeks old. We had to co-sleep for a couple of nights and IT WAS HELL!! she fed nonstop. It took another week to get back into our 'routine'

Yes I had a routine from day 1 mainly becasue the BF was so painful I refused to do it more than once every 2.5 - 3 hrs!! Anything I could do to avoid feeding, nappy changes, baths, playing etc. I know this sounds cruel to some, but she really didn't seem to NEED feeding more than that. Like you I would worry about 'bad habits' (and she was no2) but that was because dd1 was hospitalised from birth and when we got her home she was on a 4 hrly routine, so I just followed that

feeling better abuot the shields, at least. (god i must go and wake him up for this feed, he;'ll really need it now).

Pidge, you ring a bell. i had such a horrid time with DD at the beginning, i remember saying to my mum when she was a couple of weeks old that i didn't think i really loved her very much yet, but i would, wouldn't i? (my mum remembers it too... i think it gave her a chill.) TBH it wasn't until i stopped breastfeeding fulltime that i started to love her properly. sad but true. i do feel differently about DS though, and i thought it was because i was really holding it together and not falling into the mad trap... [crossed eyes, googly mouth].

however, since DS doesn't look like the spit of my FIL, it probably means that our relationship is off to a more promising start . really, DD looked disconcertingly like FIL when she was a newborn. it quite put me off.

bakedpotato - make a cnscious decision to use your shields for 48 hours. Also use your lansinoh creme. I presume you are not washing your nipples with soap 'cause that can make things worse. New baby's ofetn cluster feed so it is not unusual for babe to want permanently attached.
Gold star to your DH . Don't sit permanently attached feeding for hours on end. Feed baby from one side till he has had enough. Wind him then offer other side till he finishes. Don't let him just lie and sleep. He should pause as he waits for the milk to let down but he should lie for long periods doing nothing. If he doesn't settle then offer him another feed. If he still doesn't settle pass him over to DH. He could try a skin-to-skin cuddle to sttle him or rock him in the pram. He is too little for it to be a habit forming problem at the minute. The priority is to give you a break till the nipples heal.
I would avoid a dummy at the minute just because he has not matered breastfeeding yet. The dummy will encourage him to suck in the wrong way. Once your nipples are fine and he has mastered the breastfeeding technique, you could use a dummy then if needs be.
After 48 hours your nipples will feel better. You can then use them at the start of the feed then put DS straight onto the breast. He will get better at it. Try not to let him go longer that 3 hours during the day. He may go for longer because he fed so often last night. Utilise your DH - he sounds a good help

btw i didn't see the bf cuonsellor today because of MW's visit. there are other local clinics Pollyanna has told me about though and so i think i'll take mears' advice, use shields for 48 hrs, then chase one up on wed.

Yes, section booked for next Monday. Yikes.
Oh, please don't worry about bad habits at this stage, he was different last week and he'll be different next week. I do remember that when you are in sleep-deprived hormone hell everything seems permanent and disastrous, but of course it isn't. Do what you need to do to get you through today and tomorrow you can start again. And I expect you to remind me of my wise words some time next week
Get some kip when you can too - give that baby a feed, put him in a snowsuit and get your dh to take him out for a l-o-o-o-ong walk while you go to bed. Good luck xxxx

bakedpotato, I reckon there has to be lots of us who have found the beginning bit (ie what you're going through right now) pretty tough. When I was having feeding problems I started to really resent it whenever dd was hungry as it meant I would have to go through the whole rigmarole of geting the cushions right, trying to get the latch right etc etc - all the while both of us getting more and more frustrated. For me, I did manage to get past the difficult bit, we carried on breastfeeding and dd became a person, not just a feeding machine! I hope the same happens for you this time xxx
Best wishes for next week aloha.

Aloha - can't believe it is that time already Hope it all goes well for you.

much more settled night last night... feel almost human again. sure it's temporary, but

That's good BP. Remember you will have good days and possibly bad spells on the road to breastfeeding bliss. However it is all worth it in the end