Difficult Dr's appointment - told to cut down BF and add Formula

[Stefka]

I went to the Dr because I have been feeling really run down since I had my baby. He's seven months now and I still BF him as well as give him his solids. At the moment he has about four feeds a day and then he also feeds a couple of times in the night though those I think are just comfort go back to sleep type feeds.

The Dr told me that he should only be on three feeds a day and that because I am so run down I ought to add in some formula. She said I am not eating enough and therefore he won't be getting what he needs for me anyway plus he will be sucking me dry of nutrients that I need. She wasn't nasty about it at all but said she was very worried about my health.

I don't want to give him formula. I am not sure about cutting down his feeds either. I have to go back and see her again. She gave me a prescription for some kind of multivitamin. I feel kind of confused and upset and not sure what to do.

The doctor has some mixed up ideas.

Your body will feed your baby first, so if you don't look after yourself, eat enough and drink plenty you could end up ill and you can't look after your son if you are ill.

Your son should be getting his main nutrition from you for at least his first year and he knows better than anyone else what he needs.

it may not be right for the OP, MsD, but there will be no damage done if she wants to try it out for a week or two to see if she can learn how to do it and if it helps with her feelings of being run down.

i am not too bothered whether or not it is one size fits all solution, just interested in giving the OP another string for her bow.

That's lovely for you Kikis, and I know you are offering an alternative to the OP which may very well work for her and make her less tired, which is why I suggested she try it. However, you did put
"the thing with co-sleeping which makes this not happen, even if you are feeding several times a night, is that you and your baby enter light and deep sleep cycles at the same time so he won't be waking you up out of one of your deep sleep cycles to ask for food."
Which implies it is the same for everyone, and I have to say, when I was being kicked, woken up at all hours for hours etc, it was easy to feel like a failure (which I did),and that you are 'doing it wrong' because obviously it worked for everyone else (ditto). I think it's always worth trying things, but it's also good to know it's normal if it doesn't work for you and lots of babies don't wait for you to drift into a light sleep before booting you in the solar plexus and wanting to be fed...

I can't see how giving an outline of what has been observed in mother-baby sleep labs can turn into me implying that this happens for everyone.

i don't know the specific details of your attempts at cosleeping MsD so I can't and won't comment on them.

I'm trying to be very polite to you here, agreeing with you that this is something the OP can try, and I'm also being honest about my own feelings and experiences, in order to avoid other people feeling as much of a failure I as did. So there's no need to roll your eyes at me, thank you.
You did say "so he won't be waking you up out of one of your deep sleep cycles" which absolutely was NOT the case for me. The categoric nature of saying 'he won't' (not even "he probably won't" or "my baby didn't") does seem to me to imply that this is guaranteed, and it isn't. Statements like that can make women feel like failures. I know, because I've been there, sobbing in the middle of the night. Roll your eyes at me all you like if it makes you happy, but co-sleeping was not a miracle cure for ME.

Nope doesn't work for me either I get kicked and woken up for every snuffle - I get a bad back and a cricked arm from trying to keep around/away from babe - and my boobs hurt from feeding far more frequently than I was before - FOR ME it works better if we are both in our own beds

erm, and while your anecdotal experience may prove invaluable to the OP, I am just back to where i started. Trying to give the OP some reassurance to experiment with something that she may have felt reluctant or unsure of in the past.

that you feel like it was a failure for you should not mean i cannot point out that research shows, and that with patience and a bit of give and take and reassessing as the child grows and changes, cosleeping is a good alternative for many people.

i can't see why you are being defensive about it not working out for you. how could i know who is going to read this thread and whether cosleeping would be a viable alternative for them?

Stefka, if you know you have issues with food I would suggest that you make attempts to get some help, both for yourself and for your child, I am really keen that my children grow up with a healthy, balanced attitiude to food and believe that my attitiude is key in that.
Hope it works out for you. x

tictok - alternatives to feeding a 7 month back to sleep, include offering a drink of water from a beaker or bottle, offering a cuddle or pat or a soother such as amusical lullaby toy and if " sleep training " has been shown to be harmful can some one show me the scientific evidence . all of the above can be doen by someone other than the mother thus allowing hte mother to get a whole night of undisturbed sleep.

But some find 'tis lovely to feed a baby back to sleep - and quick. Plus (in my case) you hardly wake up yerself and don't wake your partner up with annoying musical toy. (That's if you're all sleeping in the same room, like we are)

Basically co-sleeping's about whether you like it or not IMO. If you do - do it. If you don't - don't.

mummydoc - do you accept that tiredness has not been shown to affect breastmilk production (in fact, the reasearch that does exist shows that it doesn't)?

I think the alternatives you give are fine to discuss with the mother - there are drawbacks to all of them nevertheless (for a start, we don't know enough about the OP's baby's weight and growth to be sure that water would be a safe option in terms of calories needed, and some babies would be very upset indeed at not being breastfed when they woke up - and the mum might be distressed at this).

Night waking is normal at this age, and it's debateable whether huge efforts should be made to change normal behaviour in a pre-verbal baby. There is plenty of evidence to show that not meeting an infant's needs for comfort and reassurance is harmful - you'll be aware that some sleep training involves allowing a distressed baby to cry for long periods and I'd be surprised if you needed evidence that this was wrong. Reading your posts makes me fairly certain you don't mean this, I realise.

Stefa, I am a long term breastfeeder (still feeding DD2 at 23 mths)
Just after the 6mth point, I was exhausted, not by breastfeeding, but by the waking in the night. My DD2 slept in a crib next to my bed & when she woke in the night I used to scoop her in with me & feed her, fall asleep & then wake later & put her back to bed.

I was desperate for a proper uninterrupted nights sleep, so DH & I moved into the spare room. I was convinced that DD2 was waking out of habit, not hunger. DH tended to her when she cried out the first night, then the 2nd & on the 3rd, she just grumbled & settled herself.

The feeling after having a good nights sleep was fantastic ! She has been a superb sleeper ever since.

I recommend a supplement which you can obtain from the drs called Spatone, which is an easily absorbable (40%) iron & is gentle on your stomach. Also suggest a zinc supplement. I think the floradix is vit B mix, which is good for energy.

Good luck & hope the postings here are helpful to you

Did she test you for anaemia or thyroid problems. Both can cause tiredness and weight loss?

Don't give up on the feeding but she's right to give you multivitamins to ensure you are getting the right nutrients!

apparently you need quite alot of good fats for breast feeding like avocado, olive oil, fish. These things won't make you fat though. Mangos are good too for giving you a boost of vit C without the citric acid if it upsets your baby. If your baby is on solids would you be happy to mix a bit of formula in with purees?
Make sure you eat well.

Thyroid problems are also sometimes misdiagnosed as depression. I'm still feeding my baby up to 5 times a day at 2.5 years, it is tiring and some babies seem to love feeding and are difficult to soothe in other ways. Sears - Fussy baby book is a good read. Food issues are difficult but try to think of food as your friend and think about how good it is for you and your baby to eat really healthy nice food. Think quality not quantity. I've started getting veg and meat from local sources rather than tescos, it tastes much better and I know it's more nutrious.

plus I eat raspberry yogurt with loads of seeds in every morning. The seeds are 'the food doctor' you can get them in sainsburys. They are delicious in yoghurt and you get a good boost of protein without having to have a big dinner, so very handy when you don't have time to eat properly. I live on peanut butter on toast too, but i know not evereyone is happy with peanuts and breastfeeding

cosima, please don't perpetuate the myth that mothers need to eat anything special or extra or even healthy to breastfeed. It's good to eat healthily, but it won't make any difference to the baby's intake or quality of breastmilk.

I have an oversupply of milk at the moment, no issues with me not being able to make milk at all.
I have practically lived off wine, diet coke, chocolate, sausage rolls and jam sandwiches for the last 8 weeks since DS2 was born. It is good for you to eat healthily, makes no difference to the milk at all.

tiktok, i was rather more concerned with the health of the op. I'm sure her baby is doing fine. Apparewntly you need to eat healthily because bf along with having a baby is quite tiring. Is it a myth that you need extra calories?

furthermore, i was under the impression that mumsnet was a rather useful allternative to the experts, many of it based on experience and possibly hear'say, with the advantage of many different views that you could pick and choose and discard as you wish. No need to be so bloody condescending tiktok.

cosima, it can use upto around 500 calories a day to breastfeed, it doesn't always though.

No need to be so so bloody sensitive and defensive, cosima

Your understanding of mumsnet is only partly right - experience and opinion is welcome, but you made statements that purported to be fact.

If you meant that fats were needed for the mother's health only, when you said "apparently you need quite alot of good fats for breast feeding like avocado, olive oil, fish" then it would have been helpful to be clearer....'s'all I'm sayin'....

cosima, you have to be careful when saying things like a certain diet will promote a better bfing relationship. in most cases it is false. this myth is something that formula companies are happy to perpetuate, though not directly so. it leads to a lot of women around the globe thinking, 'hmm, i haven't been looking after myself lately and the baby is fussy, i am tired, formula will support my bfing.' it does not.

i read a really interesting article re this sort of deductive reasoning about why women will give top ups of formula. The majority of the women continue to bf, but they are giving something which may actually be doing more harm than good seeing that we are talking about one of the poorer islands of the Caribbean. i wish i had saved the link because I was busy at the time and would liek to read it again.

the same thing happens in the UK and it seems like the GP's reasoning lies along this same trend of thought.

i meant eating well was good for the posters health, 'whilst' bf. AArrggh!! I'm totally against formula, I'm trying to be helpful.